Yeah, is Jakob injured or just going for a jog or something?
Yeah, is Jakob injured or just going for a jog or something?
Jakob DESTROYED by KJ!!!
KJ GOAT STATUS CONFIRMED!!!
A good performance by Kilian. He was within 90 seconds of what high school kids have done. Would have been chicked by only the ten fastest women. Ran less than a minute slower than what he claims that he does in practices. Just wait till he gets some experience; after all, he is only 32 and has only run hundreds of races so he needs some seasoning.
LRC note. This thread was initially titled, "Kilian shows what he is capable of."
Oh yes an absolutely terrible result. Anyone with a decent track background could destroy Kilian in any trail or mountain race with 6 months or even less training. Not only would they not suffer any injury but would also quickly improve their running at high altitude and on technical terrain. Kilian has exposed himself as the true fraud he is. Even with all that doping he barely managed to go under 30 minutes. I can’t think of a worse athlete.
What's with all the negativity from "I am very dumb?" Killian proved that he wouldn't get lapped more than once by high school children and can beat most women, showed that his workout times aren't whopping lies by too awful much, that he could compete well in turkey trots in places that don't have sub-elite runners, could make the JV XC team at a lot of DI schools (not BYU where he would be too young and slow).
I was pretty surprised by KJ's result. I thought that he was lying a whole lot more about his workout times than he actually was. KJ has a legitimate shot at making the Greek women's Olympic team.
I'm surprised he only 29:59. What were the conditions? Temps, flat or hilly, etc?
I know some people think he's a fraud as they think he a) faked an Everest summit and b) is on drugs. This has only got to add fuel to the fire.
What does 29:59 translate to when timed with an hourglass and measured with a fishing pole after running a 30 minute vertical K and posted on Instagram?
Surprised this point hasn't been made. If Kilian were concerned about being "exposed", he could have just DNS. He even had the injury excuse. At least he ran.
With that said, unless anyone can quantify the effect of his tibial injury, we can't say for certain if it was lack of fitness, pain, or both holding him back.
It is frustrating as a trail aficionado to hear big talk after the alleged 1VK10K or whatever. I still think on a good day he could run 29 flat on that course, and he seemed to go for that, 14:35 first half, then blew up.
His results at Sierre-Zinal are much faster than guys with much faster 10k personal bests. The dude is fast. Not world class road or track fast.
Specificity is a thing. Jakob did the steep trail race and ran respectable but was well off the winning time irrc.
But yeah, i fully expect him to respect the "boring, flat" races now, and train more seriously for them.
Which raises an interesting question. Sage, since Kilian has been good at shorter mountain events, how come he hasn't done the short or long mountain running world champs?
Drug testing?
Yeah, KJ is a total fraud! Let's see how Jakob fares at a vertical race:
https://runningmagazine.ca/trail-running/trail-races/jakob-ingebrigtsen-stoltzekleiven-opp/
S. Canaday wrote:
First off a lot of people are saying Killian is an "ultra mountain guy"....and yes, he is well known for winning UTMB and Hardrock and other 100-milers (Western States even).
However, in my opinion his best performances have actually been from races in the 20-mile to 30 mile range (but technical steep mountain trail courses generally). He is actually really good at events still in the 30-min to 2 hour range.
Now I don't know anything about true mountaineering (Everest or even something like his Matterhorn FKT so I'll leave that out of the picture for now). Obviously he has also been good at super high altitude stuff and has vast climbing experience with ropes/crampons and skis.
But most of Kilians big wins and dominating performances in the realm of MUT have been in "Sky Running" and now "Golden Trail Series" Races. People know UTMB because it is a big deal, but he has been beaten there. He has shown "weakness" (At times) in longer ultras...whereas his dominance in shorter (sub-ultra_ mountain running is probably more prominent. (Granted he almost always gets top 3 in any MUT race he does....even on a "bad day"....except at the UROC 100km in Colorado in 2013 or something like that.....)
I actually think his 2:25 CR at Sierre-Zinal last year was probably one of his best performances ever...consider that that is not an ultra race (it is about 19 miles)...but it is an iconic mountain race because of the climbing and altitude and history. But it is not a technical race. The trail is generally quite smooth and to do well there you really have to have some serious turn-over/ wheels as the final 10-miles trends downhill and there are even dirt road sections on a lot of the course. It's also probably why a 28-min 10km guy like Jono Wyatt had the previous record there. But Jono (great climber that he was and still a Mt. WA course record holder) didn't really venture into longer mountain ultras over 50km all that much.
So Kilian has shown excellent range in all these events, but in my mind it is all just "distance running". Training for skimo in the winter is actually really good prep for mountain running in the summer, much like doing some hill workouts and hilly long runs is great for track and road runners to work on their flat speed. But the opposite can be true to some extent: mountain-ultra runners can benefit from doing some track intervals and flat road tempo runs at times as well.
The heart and lungs don't care what event you are doing if they are operating at the same intensities. It is fine-tuning the neuromuscular system and muscles/muscle build and activation for "Variable Running Economy on variable terrain" that makes these transitions more feasible. People are going to be able to pull that off at different ranges (And some not nearly as good as others!).
igotoneforyou wrote:
This is a strange comment to me. This 10km race is not a mountain race. As much as I respect Kilian, it won't prove he's the GOAT mountain runner (his actual mountain race efforts should show that). Beating these guys' times would only prove that ....he ran a road 10km faster, when none of them ever claimed to be road 10km guys.
On another note, I think a ton of people in this site have no idea about mountain running, and how different it is than track or flat road racing (or even hilly road racing). With the altitude, technicality, steepness and other aspects, it's a very different sport and requires different strengths than running on a track. Sure, there are some fundamental similarities (endurance, for instance) but there are a lot of differences, too. I wish more of you tried a true mountain race, because then I think a lot of you would respect the sport and it's runners more.
Thanks for the reply, Sage. Very good points. But, is it debatable that his best performances have come at less technical races like S-Z? (I mean, yes, that's a great one of course...but what about his Hard Rock runs, for example?). I do believe he is fast, and probably under-performed in the 10km, but he is legendary on mut while being only faster than average on a road...this is a huge difference. It's more than just 'distance running' or the heart-lung thing. I agree good fitness can only help you on the trails, but there is no denying that skillful running on technical stuff, which Kilian is legendary at, is a different skill compared to a road run, requiring differences in balance, proprioception, the ability to run 'off rhythm' (though he seems to keep in rhythm on technical stuff, at least compared to me ?), trail-reading skills, etc.
I know you're an all surface guy, but don't you also see variations in your relative positions across disciplines, or have strengths or weaknesses related to different styles of running?
I guess my point is: I respect Kilian a ton but I'm not surprised his 10km wasnt close to Olympic fast. Even if he wasn't injured or whatever. Because, in the end, he offers more than just the hearts and lungs.
I think the only thing that would convince me otherwise would be to see a bunch of track/road guys (say, like Mo Farah, or, just pick any track star) show up at a tough high level trail race and dominate on minimal trail training. Why don't we see this happen if the fitness transfers over so well? Is it really only the $?
Thanks again!
Doesn't this basically make him fall into a category akin to Special Forces, where he can take on mountain terrain, extreme elevation, long-distance trails, extreme cold, extreme heat, fast-paced short distance road races, straight up hills like pikes peak.
I can't imagine he actually trained specifically for this. Nevertheless, his pace is phenomenal.
rojo wrote:
I'm surprised he only 29:59. What were the conditions? Temps, flat or hilly, etc?
I know some people think he's a fraud as they think he a) faked an Everest summit and b) is on drugs. This has only got to add fuel to the fire.
When the founder of the site exemplifies everything that's wrong with it.
There's no hope.
Killin it wrote:
Wyatt has a 28:26 on the road. If Killian beats that he is just the undisputed all around mountain runner GOAT of all time.
Jono is the GOAT, also a six time world mountain running champion.
i am very dumb wrote:
Oh yes an absolutely terrible result. Anyone with a decent track background could destroy Kilian in any trail or mountain race with 6 months or even less training. Not only would they not suffer any injury but would also quickly improve their running at high altitude and on technical terrain. Kilian has exposed himself as the true fraud he is. Even with all that doping he barely managed to go under 30 minutes. I can’t think of a worse athlete.
If they could they would. Of course you might expect someone like Kipchoge to beat him but not anybody.
He's not training for short fell or trail races but ultra events lasting all day.
I thought KJ was overrated until he smashed the record of Billy Bland which stood for 36 years Bland was previously British Fell running champion and was mixing it with Kenny Stuart who won the world fell / mountain running championships and ran a 2:11 marathon back when that was a great time.
I don't see how running only just under 30 for 10km is a sign of drug use. As if EPO doesn't work on that distance. Tell that to a Ugandan!
Running up and down 42 fells for 12 hours requires a lot different training from a 10km. A lot on here think xc is running 5km round a golf course so have idea what a mountain race is.
Nothing like running a sub 30 10k in your debut without carbon plated shoes with zero road and track background only to be picked apart by the losers of letsrun.
When he announces he’s been dealing with an injury for the last 2 weeks which caused discomfort and openly admits to rookie pacing mistakes and running in larger groups at that pace that he has lots to learn he gets slaughtered by the wannabe professionals on this site. He even stated he expected to run a little faster and was disappointed but will do it again.
Meanwhile name any other runner and they get an instant pass. Oh they were hurt, bad training block, etc... you trolls bend so much is laughable.
Kilian is a mountain specialist and the fact he’s willing to come out and try something new and do reasonably well in his first go should be closer to being praised then attempting to be torn apart. I guess the jealousy is high when a hiker comes in with no track background and takes down 80% of the field.
Dos Braveys wrote:
A good performance by Kilian. He was within 90 seconds of what high school kids have done. Would have been chicked by only the ten fastest women. Ran less than a minute slower than what he claims that he does in practices. Just wait till he gets some experience; after all, he is only 32 and has only run hundreds of races so he needs some seasoning.
LRC note. This thread was initially titled, "Kilian shows what he is capable of."
Filip only went 29:03. What does that say about him by your same logic?
rojo wrote:
I'm surprised he only 29:59. What were the conditions? Temps, flat or hilly, etc?
I know some people think he's a fraud as they think he a) faked an Everest summit and b) is on drugs. This has only got to add fuel to the fire.
KJ said he did:
a vertical kilometer in less than 30 minutes
jogged down
ran a sub 30 10K.
That activity was not posted on strava, though.
So now he just races a 10K and barely goes under 30'?
In his strava post he said he was dealing with a minor tibia injury. Because of all the controversy surrounding KJ's endeavours it is hard to know if that is legit or not.