Killian Jornet: VK10K

Looking at Jornet's instagram reminds me that what strikes me about his "range" isn't that he can run VKs and 10ks and 100-milers all really fast; it's that he also does the steep skiing, the mountain climbing, the ski-mo, etc . I am no expert at any of these disciplines, and I don't know how "good" Jornet is at any of them from a professional standpoint, but considering that he is world-class in mountain running and ski-mo, it is crazy he has time for these other pursuits. I know his everest summit is debated, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt -- at worst, the benefit of the doubt that he was confused about where he was while in the "death zone" -- but wherever he did end up on Everest, it is no small feat for any human without supplemental oxygen. The sorts of things he does, and this is obviously part of his mystique and aura, such as the 24-hour uphill ski record, the attempts at Everest and other peaks, and these other long "adventures", is really quite different than the training most other elite trail runners do (e.g. Sage, Walmsley, etc.) which, for the most part, tend to look like traditional endurance running training. So yeah, to me, Jornet's "range" isn't the vertical kilometer and 4:10 mile, it's all this other wacky adventure stuff that he does seemingly because of his self-coached curiosity.

Anyone else notice his heart rate is an average 75 bpm for the VK?

Surely a bug? Doesn't give me great confidence in the other stats IMHO

I have no idea how good this VK world record is (didn't know WR is a thing there honestly), but as already mentioned he himself wrote that his "VK" included a fair amount of flat/down parts, which obviously make a big difference. And as you mentioned GPS is erroneous often enough, so maybe those 10k he ran were in fact at 64:00 pace, who knows (I btw don't think Wamsley is such a good road runner, that 64:00 was quite average considering that even someone like Francesco Puppi - much less accomplished and always well behind Kilian or Jim in the mountains despite being probably one of the best climbers out there - did 64:40 and that 50 mile WR was more of a marketing gimmick at a distance nobody cares about)

GPS obviously is completly independent from HR data. Also someone mentioned it in the comments, Kilian answered: "not real, I was probably between 185 and 190 all the time during the VK"

I think the top level ultra runners, especially trail ultra runners are like top level Triathletes and can't really be directly compared to track and road specialists. OK it is a little closer than triathlon, but still is a pretty specialist activity. Plus Killian isn't a teenager so hes not going to suddenly threaten any road records now.

Sounds like Sage and Joe G. are both bitter that they will never come close to any of Matt Carpenter's PPM times. It sucks because I like Joe G. but I'd expect nothing less from Sage.

I dont think Sage or Gray are bitter. I don't know them closely but seems Gray has bettered every mark by Carpenter minus pikes. The same for Sage. I do believe they both are suspicious of that time as most elite runners who have run same courses as Matt.

It isn't that hard to take 30 minutes out of your day, go out on a track and run a non controversial 5k/10k time with a stopwatch, the situation that this remains a deliberate mystery when the guy has been around for so long tells you something. Also fact is Kilian has lost on runnable flatter race to an ostensibly faster guy and vowed never to do it again because too "boring". Plus, correct me if I'm wrong I haven't seen Jornet race or win world mountain championships when the ugandans were crushing it and high level athletes were around, and that should be right up his wheelhouse. There's a discernable pattern there where he doesn't want to expose himself to certain situations. But I think first thing's first he's gotta take down pikes peak record. It would be like a marathon runner saying he's the best marathon runner ever when he's what? the equivalent of having a 2:09 PR to the world record.

Is Joe G even on this thread? I wouldn't even say they're skeptical. Bob Beamon broke the long jump WR by almost 2 feet in Mexico City, so sometimes the stars just align the right way, perfect conditions and an out of this world effort.

buzzcolorado wrote:

Oh Please wrote:

Supposedly he split 2:01 on the ascent, which is a record in and of itself. Looks like no one has come within 4+ minutes of that, even on an ascent only race. Is there a picture of him at the top / turn around? That would seem conclusive enough...can't really short cut up to the top of Pikes Peak.

There could've been a strong tail wind that year on the way up, which helps much more than what you lose on the way down. Or the wind stops as you turn around.

FWIW you can shortcut, there are a lot of switchbacks; wasn't Kilian kind of DQ-ed one year for that? Also there is the Incline, but I assume they make sure you don't take that.

Kilian was semi-DQd at Speedgoat 50k for cutting switchbacks back in 2012. That was a weird circumstance. The race was in a series that was only European races otherwise at the time, and runners were allowed to cut switchbacks at all the other races in the series. The RD decided to give Kilian the points for the series, but he didn't let him take the cash. IIRC, he won by something like 5 min and probably would have won either way, so everyone was OK with the outcome. If I had to guess, Kilian makes enough money from sponsorships that losing the $5000 prize probably didn't kill him.

FWIW, I'm not familiar with any accusation that Kilian cut switchbacks at Pike's. It seems as though it was a legitimate misunderstanding at Speedgoat, and he hasn't been known to do that since.

Interesting. So most people tell me the "course on Pikes has never changed", but below you write: about it not always being a "closed course" and that: "Past winners and record holders have admitted to training on the course to learn where there were advantageous shortcuts." So what year did they make it a "closed course" and make "switchback cutting" not allowed? I've only been on the trail about a dozen times, but I'd imagine in the woods between Barr Camp to A-frame would be the biggest places to gain time doing that. Maybe a few of the big switchbacks just above treeline as well. So I'm interested in hearing when switchback cutting was legal on this course since you are taking about this?

Sage while you're on this thread what were your thoughts on this years Pikes Peak. Do you reckon Seth is now amongst the upper echelon of world MUT runners? How would he go in the Golden trail series ?

LOL, yes winning a MARATHON makes puts someone in the top of the ULTRA world. Right? Right...

Seth ran a really good time at Pikes this year (about 1:30 faster than me last year)...especially with his 2:09 Ascent split. In "defense" of Kilian and myself with our "slow" times from last year I do believe historical weather data says it was a little hotter last year and the pressure was a little lower...still this year was more smokey...so there's that! Also of note in Matt's '93 record run the weather was apparently very similar to this year in terms of pressure (perhaps minus the smoke) and not quite as hot. Certainly not the fastest conditions on the mountain, but typical for a mid-August summer day. I think Seth really shines at high altitude as I believe he was raised in Buena Vista at 8000' or so when he was younger? His uphill is also a lot better than his downhill (much like Matt...except that one time in 1993....) As far as MUT goes, notice the "U" designates "ultra" and I don't believe Seth has really done very many ultras? I raced him at Speedgoat a few years ago (David Sinclair won that year). Guys like Kilian have range because he has basically done and won everything from VKs (5km) to 100-miles. I mean look what he did to that Hardrock 100 CR! As far as the Golden Trail Series goes I don't believe Seth has qualified for that yet? I also think it's going to be hard to travel too and that there is a good chance the race is cancelled. Kilian and I are automatically qualified because we were top 10 last year. I have also put in my resume for the World Mountain Running team/Champs but with the pandemic and US travel restrictions heading into this fall (along with our rising case numbers) this also seems like a long shot. And I really don't mean to hijack this thread with these sub topics as it is about Kilian (but I thought the Pikes CR and Sierre-Zinal times are relevant because they are courses that Kilian has run and won multiple times)... Did Kilian ever post this sub 30-min 10km on Strava? Again, someone who runs a 2:25 at Sierre-Zinal of course should be able to do this workout. It is ridiculous though (especially a sub 30-min VK). If any of you have run Sierre-Zinal (and especially last year when the competition was probably the best ever with depth in the top 25) you'd know how freaking good a 2:25 is on that course. That was one record that I didn't think would be taken down by whole minutes. But what really intrigues me is this "outlier" 3:16 Pikes time...

nonon wrote:

Sage while you're on this thread what were your thoughts on this years Pikes Peak. Do you reckon Seth is now amongst the upper echelon of world MUT runners? How would he go in the Golden trail series ?

vogusz wrote:

I dont think Sage or Gray are bitter. I don't know them closely but seems Gray has bettered every mark by Carpenter minus pikes. The same for Sage. I do believe they both are suspicious of that time as most elite runners who have run same courses as Matt.

Not really. He did beat Anton once at a race. Still waiting for Canada to go after carpenter’s Leadville record. He seems to think it is soft.

Killian thread about sage wrote:

Not really. He did beat Anton once at a race. Still waiting for Canada to go after carpenter’s Leadville record. He seems to think it is soft.

You troll hard Sir.

Sage - it is awesome to hear you on these boards. F the haters. It's cool as heck to hear this stuff from a pro.

You guys crack me up! ?

I don't think Matt's Leadville CR is soft. I think it is very soft compared to his 3:16 record at Pikes though....like not even close to the same level. It is beatable. I think Rob Krar basically "equalled" that Leadville Record already years ago (course has been slightly different over the years and if you consider the added mileage/course changes and time Rob's performance was already equally good). Sure, it showed range for Carpenter, but look at Kilian's range!

If you want to reference that Speedgoat 50km in the context of Kilian, then note that in 2013 Anton and I ran faster than Kilian's DQ time ("switchback cutting year") from the year before (we also beat Max King that day):

https://ultrasignup.com/register.aspx?did=72676

Okay, enough messing around time on here... I gotta go run and film a #VLOG for the youtube today!

so Cliff Notes...Killian and Carpenter both cheat? Ok thanks.