Where to get an ironman triathlon plan geared towards runners?

The last few weeks I've just been on the trainer.

Last few weeks I've been doing 5-6 rides per week - 2-3 easy z1 rides and a couple workouts, with 1 longer effort (not that long) - sometimes I combine a workout within the "long" ride.

Last week I did -

Sunday - 35 min Z1 to shakeout legs after longrun

Monday - 1 hr total - 3x (20 sec at ftp / 40 sec easy).

Tuesday - 63 min Z1 recovery

Wednesday - 42 min Z1/Z2 easy

Thursday - 87 min ride - including 3x15 min @ 80% of FTP with 7.5 min recovery between reps

Saturday - 2 hours 20 min split between Z1/Z2 with 2 x 20 min @ 90% FTP with 10 min recovery.

During the saturday session, during the 20 min segments, avg HR was maybe 147ish, with a max of 154... During Thurs session, HR during intervals averaged about 140, with max of 151.

Maybe I just need to keep doing those longer intervals and start adding in 3+ hour rides. Or maybe I just need to harden up and ride more/faster. All the FTP numbers are based on a ramp test from Zwift which estimated my ftp at 260, which probably isn't too accurate but who knows.

My goal is to just use the fall/winter to get stronger and maintain some basic running fitness - hoping racing comes back next spring/summer and maybe I can get into a 70.3 or olympic race.

As a tri-curious runner I'm surprised no one has mentioned spending big bucks on a bike. Is that assumed? A friend of mine said get some swim coaching and you can "buy your way" to a decent bike time.

meant to say 3 x (10 x 20 sec on / 40 sec easy) for monday

Did you get the zwift result using a smart trainer/power meter? If so it's pretty accurate. If not then it's not worth a darn.

Usually runners transitioning to bike have a great CV system but terrible legs. This leads to high perceived effort yet low heart rate. Get the legs stronger and the FTP will rise and so will the heart rate to correlate with perceived effort.

20/40's are meant to be an "Over/under" cycle. Rather than ride at FTP its 20s at Z5/6 and 40 at z1. Usually no more than 6 reps with around 3 minute rest between blocks. Typically 2 to 3 blocks worth.

15 minute blocks are good. Try stretching that to 2x20 at 85.

Also, cycling MHR is slightly lower than run MHR This occurs for 2 reasons: 1. less muscles are used while cycling = lower heart rate. 2: focus more while riding a bike at 35+ MPH When the heart rate is on the redline in a sprint finish. you can not actually all out as that would lead to a crash. On a sprint finish of a 5k, you can be all out because you can fall over after the line.

Hobby_Jogger_999 wrote:

As a tri-curious runner I'm surprised no one has mentioned spending big bucks on a bike. Is that assumed? A friend of mine said get some swim coaching and you can "buy your way" to a decent bike time.

Are you trying to win or are you trying to be competitive?

Reality is, you can buy performance in cycling and it sucks. But, I've also had the doors blown off me in a crit by a guy on a 30 year old bike with down tube shifters and V breaks. Fitness will get you 99.8% of the way there. As long as you can find a decent used bike, you're set. The biggest issue we see is beginners go out and buy a Tri/TT bike and don't have the mobility or strength to hold the TT position.

FWIW I did a 70.3 on an aluminum Cannondale Synapse with aluminum rims. You don't NEED a $13,000+ S-Works Shiv. And unless you're a pro/sponsored, no one gives a flying hoot if your bike leg is a 2:48.02 or 2:57.03 (the difference between a special tri specific bike and a run of the mill road bike for an average 70.3 split). And if you are a pro/sponsored, guaranteed you're not paying for the ride, so back to the original point, who cares?

Thanks, I guess I'll scrap the 20/40 reps for now and keep focusing on these longer reps a few days per week. The ramp test was done with zwift and my smart trainer (wahoo kickr snap).

A guy upstate wrote:

Thanks, I guess I'll scrap the 20/40 reps for now and keep focusing on these longer reps a few days per week. The ramp test was done with zwift and my smart trainer (wahoo kickr snap).

If you're already on Zwift and a smart trainer, they have some good pre-built programs for runners crossing over. 260 is actually a solid FTP for someone crossing over, should put you mid - high 3.x W/Kg.

SBR

Thanks, i will look into the Zwift plans as well. I think it's likely I'm making "newbie gains" at this point since I've only been doing workouts since the beginning of August and really just started riding at all in mid-June. Weight is approximately 67kg.

One of the biggest benefits you can give yourself on a bike is a really good professional fit. You can certainly ride decent enough without one but being in the correct position on the correct frame can make a world of difference.

If you're just thinking about doing an Oly or a 70.3 once or twice then a road bike with aero bars will get you through.

Thanks, for sure. I'm planning to get aero bars eventually for my very basic bike (specialized allez) setup, but racing is probably so far off with COVID etc, that I'm not thinking about this too much yet.

All of that looks pretty similar to how I structured my training for an Olympic Tri a couple weeks back.

I was up to 6-7 days/week on the bike because I wasn't running as much coming back from an injury that didn't worsen with biking/swimming.

3-4 days easy days @ Z1/2 but maybe a little longer than you would do (80-100 minutes or so) (similar to you, my HR seemed laughably low compared to running)

1 longer rep day @ Z 3/4 (10:00-20:00 reps)

1 shorter rep day @ Z 4/5 (2:00-5:00 reps)

1 long ride day (mostly steady but without the intervals you were doing which I like a lot)

I notice that some fast Tri guys do :20 or :30 reps all-out but a lot of them -- maybe 8-10 reps & then 3 sets. That should get the HR going.

Again, similar to you, my HR on the bike is nothing like running. I do workouts where I feel like I'm working it & see the HR was 140-150 afterwards during the harder portions. I think the longer rides will help. 3+ hours is bound to get you up a little higher. Hilly terrain helps too or more resistance on the indoor trainer. Do workouts in a harder gear than what you would be in on the roads -- not every workout but once every other week or so. I'm going to get a power meter. Maybe that'll help me push some more.

Thanks, I'm going to work on piling onto that weekly long ride consistently and hopefully get it up to 3.5+ hrs, and keep consistent with the long tempo-ish reps (and some straight paced steady riding). Will see where that takes me this winter! As a total newbie to this, I feel like I have a lot of room to grow and in many ways it's more interesting than just running.

A lot of those shorter z1/z2 rides are ones I squeeze into lunch breaks during work-from-home. Admittedly, it may make sense to just combine some of those efforts so I do 4-5 longer average rides as opposed to 5-6 rides that include 2 really short efforts.

How did you fare in your olympic tri? How long have you been pursuing tri as opposed to just running?

I'm super new to Triathlons so ignore anything on here that has me sounding like I know more than I do. But I really dove headfirst into training this summer & did a ton of research to put my training together. I put in a 2-3 month block for my first Olympic, broke 2 hours on a tough course, and beat a lot of "elite" athletes. Got up to 20 hours/week in training. Was mostly in the 16-19 range over the last 6-8 weeks. I think triathlon can be somewhat simplified just like running can. The more training you can do, the more consistent your training is, the better your chances are for success. 4-5 hard sessions a week (1.5ish per discipline), working out 2x and 3x a day where you can, bricks, etc. I had never really swam or biked until the build. My swim was pretty ok on raceday. I got into the water 3-4 times/week & was doing a minimum of 2000ish yards. The race just came too quickly because I'm still getting better in the pool in the weeks that followed the Tri. I think I overestimated bike fitness & underestimated how much of the race it takes up because of the run. I also feel like my training was more geared towards a 70.3. I got my long ride into that 50-100 mile range pretty quickly. I might have been better off with more 30-50 mile rides with harder riding. I biked well but lost some time to the top guys. I crushed the run & think longer triathlons will suit me well. My legs felt great and I passed the whole time. But there's probably some balance to be found if I put more into the bike. My run split might have been a minute slower but could I have gotten back 2-3 minutes on the bike? My endurance is great -- I felt like I could have biked the same speed for another 40k which probably isn't how to ride. I feel like I could have doubled the run as well if I didn't close as hard in the last 2 miles. I need to work on my transitions too. I watched a lot of GTN on YouTube. It's probably something LRCers would trash since it's aimed at all levels of the sport but I found a lot of their stuff to be super helpful. Anyways, happy to expand more. I'm not an expert but I think I can earn my elite card if I go that route. Want to do Age Group Nationals first and try for 70.3 & 140.6 World Champs first. Looking forward to my next one, whenever it is that that can happen. Good luck with the training!

Holy hell, sounds like you're pretty far along in your tri development / planning and have achieved quite a bit already. What's your running background and approximate FTP? Sub-2 for an olympic sounds extremely fast to me!

This is great advice - as I'm sure you know, finding tri advice for an above average runner trying to convert over with swim/bike isn't the easiest thing to do. So the background info is super helpful!