Jim Ryun calls out Hicham El Guerrouj!!

Congratulations to Jim Ryun. While I do not support is political stance nor his comment towards Trump as being the greatest Republican President (which made me throw up in my mouth a little), he is a respected American icon in the world of track and field.

That being said, Billy Mills was not only a gold medalist, but he also served our country in the military. I believe that Billy’s historic final stretch run in 1968 certainly galvanizes his place in the Medal of Freedom discussion.

When I was a schoolchild in the '60s, Ryun was the only runner I knew by name. Later Keino and Liquori of course. In1971 I got to see Pre run and win at NCAAs, and then finally became a runner myself right after Shorter won in Munich. Good to see Mr. Ryun still healthy and hale.

Jim Ryan is a national treasure. If you don’t think the current world record is held by a doper you don’t follow the sport.

ex-runner wrote:

What is interesting about this is when Trump offers legitimate reasons as to why "they" are much faster now (training, technology) Ryun instead insinuates drug usage.

That is despite the fact that Alan Webb is standing in the room who ran 3:46 - much faster than Ryun.

And despite the obvious facts that Ryun ran on cinder tracks, was not able to learn from the training philosophies of Lydiard or Horwill or the many exercise physiologists, had no idea about altitude training and burnt himself out young.

Just on the last point, even Alan Webb who is criticised as burning out young, ran his career best time at 24. Ryun was 20.

I think it's a shame that Ryun has taken the opinion that those that came after him and ran faster than him did so by cheating.

Let's ignore Coevett for the moment.

Do you actually think that our historic performers in the mile are clean?

El Guerrouj running at the height of the EPO Era, setting a record that only dopers have seriously approached?

Asbel Kiprop, who has been confirmed as a Doper?

Aouita, who was caught demanding that his athletes dope?

Rashid Ramzi, gold medalist and confirmed Doper?

Makhloufi, who pretty much comes out of nowhere every championship year to perform spectacularly?

The list is far longer than this, and can even include names like Farah, who ran a 3:28, but has had issues with missed tests, trained in Ethiopia where he would be away from testers, and was found associating with Jama Aden, the guy caught with a bunch of EPO and PED-syringes.

Who are we kidding when we try to claim that top performers in the mile are clean?

Centrowitz is probably one of the cleanest, and even he has his association with Salazar throwing a shadow over his performance.

I was looking again at both the 1500 and mile all time list.

It's as obviously dirty as the women's lists.

I think with Manangoi's suspension it means 5 or 6 of the top 25 (above Willis) have been busted, and another 3 or 4 involved in doping controversies (such as Aouita, Lagat, and Mo).

I and others get mocked as racists for claiming that Nick Willis might be the clean WR holder, but if he isn't, he's almost certainly in the top 5 (assuming he himself is clean, which I do because of his consistent and passionate anti-doping stance and the fact that New Zealand has little apparent doping culture and is regularly listed as the least corrupt nation on Earth).

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but what IS another word for thesaurus? I clearly did not pay attention in that class...

Deanouk wrote:

He couldn't have run 3:26 and 3:43 without the EPO.

What makes you think any non-African could run 3:26 and 3:43 with EPO?

well deserved wrote:

Jim Ryan is a national treasure. If you don’t think the current world record is held by a doper you don’t follow the sport.

Did you mean "Ryun"?

In a 2014 doping survey of the letrsun audience, 43% responded that the world record was not dirty.

So for each group of 9 letsrunners, 5 of them think El G's record is dirty, and 4 do not follow the sport.

Makes sense.

ex-runner wrote:

What is interesting about this is when Trump offers legitimate reasons as to why "they" are much faster now (training, technology) Ryun instead insinuates drug usage.

That is despite the fact that Alan Webb is standing in the room who ran 3:46 - much faster than Ryun.

And despite the obvious facts that Ryun ran on cinder tracks, was not able to learn from the training philosophies of Lydiard or Horwill or the many exercise physiologists, had no idea about altitude training and burnt himself out young.

.

You really don't have a clue what you are posting about. In both 1966 and 1967 Ryun was based in Colorado in the build up to his world records. Jack Daniels was there monitoring Ryun and Co.

"White supremacist"

Another racist term, and as offensive as any other.

Especially since it is invariably leveled with no evidence.

Subway Surfers wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

What is interesting about this is when Trump offers legitimate reasons as to why "they" are much faster now (training, technology) Ryun instead insinuates drug usage.

That is despite the fact that Alan Webb is standing in the room who ran 3:46 - much faster than Ryun.

And despite the obvious facts that Ryun ran on cinder tracks, was not able to learn from the training philosophies of Lydiard or Horwill or the many exercise physiologists, had no idea about altitude training and burnt himself out young.

.

You really don't have a clue what you are posting about. In both 1966 and 1967 Ryun was based in Colorado in the build up to his world records. Jack Daniels was there monitoring Ryun and Co.

You're the one who doesn't have a clue. In 1966 and 1967 Ryun was at school in Lawrence Kansas.

.

I think it's a shame that Ryun has taken the opinion that those that came after him and ran faster than him did so by cheating.[/quote]

He didn't say that about all of them. Walker ran seconds faster due to synthetic tracks and was not burnt out by his mid 20s........Coe was dirty, epo.

Here are guys who don't come from a shady training group, state-backed doping allegations (Morocco) and have no associated doping scandals on the top list.

From Shady Countries:

Nourredine Morceli 3:27.52

Silas Kiplagat 3:27.64

Noah Ngeny 3:28.12/3:43.4

Timothy Cheruiyot 3:28.4

Ronald Kwemoi 3:28.8

Fermin Cacho 3:28.9

Mehdi Baala 3:28.9

Daniel Kipchirchir Komen 3:29.0

Daniel Komen 3:46 mile

Shady Competition History:

Mahkloufi 3:28.4

Probably takes to Niyongabo/Willis/Cram to arrive at the first group of guys with nothing you could probably quibble hard at.

Is he lumping the current 3:46 American record in there?

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Here are guys who don't come from a shady training group, state-backed doping allegations (Morocco) and have no associated doping scandals on the top list.

From Shady Countries:

Nourredine Morceli 3:27.52

Silas Kiplagat 3:27.64

Noah Ngeny 3:28.12/3:43.4

Timothy Cheruiyot 3:28.4

Ronald Kwemoi 3:28.8

Fermin Cacho 3:28.9

Mehdi Baala 3:28.9

Daniel Kipchirchir Komen 3:29.0

Daniel Komen 3:46 mile

Shady Competition History:

Mahkloufi 3:28.4

Probably takes to Niyongabo/Willis/Cram to arrive at the first group of guys with nothing you could probably quibble hard at.

This is not a confidence-provoking list. Off the top of my head, I already know that Morceli, Komen, and Ngeny had primes smack dab in the middle of the EPO era.

Even going back from the EPO-dominated period, Cram, Coe, and Ovett ran in an era where Blood Doping had not been outlawed.

Mind you, I am of the opinion that whether or not someone doped is utterly irrelevant, because the top competitors almost universally dope.

I personally think El Guerrouj is the absolute best miler who ever lived, Gebrselassie is the all-around best male distance athlete, and Wang Junxia is the all-around best female distance athlete. I am also 100% certain absolutely every one of them was doping.

aw0i wrote:

.

I think it's a shame that Ryun has taken the opinion that those that came after him and ran faster than him did so by cheating.

He didn't say that about all of them. Walker ran seconds faster due to synthetic tracks and was not burnt out by his mid 20s........Coe was dirty, epo.[/quote]

What are you talking about? EPO wasn't around untill the late 80's.

Seb Coe and Steve Ovett were only 2 or 3 years younger than Walker. John Walker won Olympic gold and was near unbeatable in 1976 and by 1977 was just a regular on the circuit. Coe won Olympic gold in 1984 and the European championships in 1986. Ovett won gold in 1980 and the Commonwealth Games in 86.

Logic and maths not your strong points?

Ryun broke the world record in the mile. He was a GREAT miler. I'm perfectly fine with him running the 1500 at the Olympics.

Clueless Surfer wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

You really don't have a clue what you are posting about. In both 1966 and 1967 Ryun was based in Colorado in the build up to his world records. Jack Daniels was there monitoring Ryun and Co.

You're the one who doesn't have a clue. In 1966 and 1967 Ryun was at school in Lawrence Kansas.

Ryun was age 20 in 1967. And still at school? A slow learner?