How hard is a 100K?

I'm surprised it's over 3 pages now and only one poster mentioned the importance of food. #1 If you already have good endurance it's gonna be mostly about how well your stomach can absorb food over a long period of physical activity, water/electrolytes as well. #2 From around 50-70% of the distance it's pretty much mental thing. #3. It was mentioned before, stay aerobic ALL the time if you want to see the finish line.

shootpost wrote:

Drop your strava link then.

His FKT.

His Strava:

Converts to a 7:38 100k. He went out really fast, was hitting 8+ min at the end, and then gets on here to say it was easy and s*** on ultrarunners. Calling him out. Put up or shut up.

shootpost wrote:

ultrarunner here wrote:

No it won't. You can't compare road and trail ultras at all. Total different things really.

nah. fitness is fitness.

Fitness has not much to do with ultrarunning. You need to be mentally strong, have a good stomach and deal with stuff along the way.

But just try one and find out.

shootpost wrote:

ultrarunner here wrote:

No it won't. You can't compare road and trail ultras at all. Total different things really.

nah. fitness is fitness.

Yeah try this: go out and run a marathon, then turn around and run back to the start. Then run it again and turn around and run back again. Sound like fun yet? Then add in 10'000m of

mountains in between.

Here are my thoughts as a 2:27 marathoner with a 7:31 100K time who has done over 100 ultras.

Some people are geared for ultras and some are not. My best distance was 40 miles. After 40 miles it was a struggle. My problem was that I could not eat and run. Up through 40 miles not being able to eat was not significant. After 40 miles it became a problem. By 100 miles things were ugly.

My training was 70 miles per week. My long runs (with limited exceptions) were only 20 miles. I did not have the inclination to spend the entire weekend running.

Can you do a 100K? The only way you will find out is to try. Will it hurt? Yes.

From what I gather, it depends on the course, your stomach, and your ability to use fat.

Given X marathon effort, depending on training, your 100k on a similar course will be roughly 2.7-3.0 times your marathon. So our 2:22 dude could potentially throw down a 6:23 to a 7:06. But again that assumes training and how well your body takes to the effort of running beyond 40 miles.

Sage Canaday is a good source of info on this too.

joecrunner wrote:

From what I gather, it depends on the course, your stomach, and your ability to use fat.

Given X marathon effort, depending on training, your 100k on a similar course will be roughly 2.7-3.0 times your marathon. So our 2:22 dude could potentially throw down a 6:23 to a 7:06. But again that assumes training and how well your body takes to the effort of running beyond 40 miles.

Sage Canaday is a good source of info on this too.

If your formula gives such a wide range of possible 100k times, it’s totally useless. I was in about 2:30 marathon shape and am confident I could have run 6:30/mi for 50 miles at the time. For 100k probably 6:50s which I think comes to a little under 7 hours.

As for the eating/nutrition issue, I think most people can adapt to being able to handle getting in the nutrition sufficiently for races under 10 hours. After that it simply takes luck and experience. The amount of climbing in the race also plays a role in both nutrition and in how much your road fitness will matter vs your technical ability and specific prep

20 mile max long runs? Why bother even trying to do longer races if you aren’t gonna bother training?

I need to do 25 mile training runs to even be prepared for a 50k...can’t imagine trying to race with a max distance of 20mi unless those 20mi took 4 hours

reed wrote:

20 mile max long runs? Why bother even trying to do longer races if you aren’t gonna bother training?

I need to do 25 mile training runs to even be prepared for a 50k...can’t imagine trying to race with a max distance of 20mi unless those 20mi took 4 hours

Well, I didn't just try to do them, I did do them. And pretty successfully. 50K pr of 3:07. 50 mile pr of 5:35. 100K pr of 7:31.

Its handy if you've never run one before and aren't sure what a reasonable time may be. Like all rules of thumbs, it should be taken only at face value.

So I did some additional research on the following athletes

Max King 34 OR 2014 6:27:43

Tom Johnson 36 CA 1995 6:30:11

Geoffrey Burns 25 MI 2016 6:30:37

Erik Seedhouse 27 ON (GBR) 1992 6:33:03

Dan Held 34 WI 2000 6:33:12

Pat Reagan 32 GA 2019 6:33:50

Andy Jones 30 ON 1991 6:33:57

Richard Chouinard 28 QC 1979 6:36:57

Allan Kirik 36 NY 1980 6:37:54

Bernd Heinrich 41 VT 1981 6:38:21

(Worlds best) Nao Kazami 35 JPN 2018 6:09:14

I compared their 100km prs with their marathon prs (obviously not the best indicator since they may not have been run relatively close to each other) and got an average 100k to 26.2 of 2.74.

The range was 2.69 to 2.94. The average 100k time was 6:31:22, the average marathon being 2:22:41.

More relevant in my opinion than a "long run"

what was your typically weekly mileage like?

joecrunner wrote:

I compared their 100km prs with their marathon prs (obviously not the best indicator since they may not have been run relatively close to each other) and got an average 100k to 26.2 of 2.74.

The range was 2.69 to 2.94. The average 100k time was 6:31:22, the average marathon being 2:22:41.

The factor of 2.74 sounds about right. BUT it only works for people who can make the transition from Marathon to 100k road races. Just because you can run a sub 2:30 Marathon does not mean you will run a sub 6:45 100k. Maybe 1 in 50 2:30 Marathoners are able to to that.

reed wrote:

20 mile max long runs? Why bother even trying to do longer races if you aren’t gonna bother training?

I need to do 25 mile training runs to even be prepared for a 50k...can’t imagine trying to race with a max distance of 20mi unless those 20mi took 4 hours

Good thing that Yiannis Kouros didn't know that rule.

He ran just 13 miles in his 80 mile training weeks.

ultra_newbie wrote:

A friend is proposing me to do a 100K in September. Have done about 10 marathons in the last 15 years, ranging from 3:32 (first one) to 3:01 (fastest)....

Ah, 9 hrs of running, doesn't sound so entertaining....but would be a nice "I have done that" badge to own :-)

As someone who has done a bunch of marathons and ultras, my honest strong advice it to take it WAY easier than you think you need to for the first 40 miles, and then start pushing it for the last 20+ miles. That way you'll finish strong and recover much easier. Just spend the first several hours relaxing, enjoying the day, and taking in the scenery. If you get excited/bored then you'll feel like pushing it because you're used to paces that are so much faster for the marathon and then you'll really not enjoy the last third of the run. When the last couple hours become a slog, the run ceases to be fun and recovery takes forever.

Finishing strong just feels good emotionally, even though it can hurt, recovery is easier, and you might even want to try another one.

Again - just go way slower than you think you need to through at least half way.

So ultra veterans, for a first 50-miler what long runs did you do? I am an experienced marathoner and can load up fairly high mileage without injury as long as I keep pacing very slow. I have been looking at several weekends of 5 hours/27 miles (10-11 min. pace) on Saturday and 4 hours/22 miles on Sunday. I'm steady at 55-60 mpw for the last couple of months. Mid-fifties age.

Thoughts/recommendations?

BoomerangBaby wrote:

So ultra veterans, for a first 50-miler what long runs did you do? I am an experienced marathoner and can load up fairly high mileage without injury as long as I keep pacing very slow. I have been looking at several weekends of 5 hours/27 miles (10-11 min. pace) on Saturday and 4 hours/22 miles on Sunday. I'm steady at 55-60 mpw for the last couple of months. Mid-fifties age.

Thoughts/recommendations?

@BoomerangBaby - I think you're on the right track. When I went from road marathons -> trail ultras, I tried a lot of different things, but eventually landed on basically my exact marathon training but extended my long runs from 15/20 miles to 20/25 miles. That was really about it. I also made sure to throw in one easy 28-30 mile run about 5ish weeks out from the race.

I found that I responded way better to quality faster runs than slogging though back to back long days, but you have to find out what works best for you.

oakland runner wrote:

reed wrote:

20 mile max long runs? Why bother even trying to do longer races if you aren’t gonna bother training?

I need to do 25 mile training runs to even be prepared for a 50k...can’t imagine trying to race with a max distance of 20mi unless those 20mi took 4 hours

Well, I didn't just try to do them, I did do them. And pretty successfully. 50K pr of 3:07. 50 mile pr of 5:35. 100K pr of 7:31.

agreed. The whole "every ultra runner needs to spend saturday and sunday doing huge, slow back-to-back long runs" is not true. I will say, it is widely accepted because it is a great way to get ready, but you can have plenty of success with other methods.

Camille Herron (ya know 2017 Comrades Champion & World Record Holder for 50 mi, 12 hr, 100 mi, and 24 hr). She said this direct quote "My normal long runs are 18 to 22 miles, and I do most of my training on roads, which keeps my legs strong and snappy."

I find what works best for me is back-to backs, but a hard workout (tempo/threshold) the first day then longer the second day but not crazy long. So I may only be running 90min total the first day but I am just as tired, and I think I got a much more focused and beneficial workout in.

BoomerangBaby wrote:

So ultra veterans, for a first 50-miler what long runs did you do? I am an experienced marathoner and can load up fairly high mileage without injury as long as I keep pacing very slow. I have been looking at several weekends of 5 hours/27 miles (10-11 min. pace) on Saturday and 4 hours/22 miles on Sunday. I'm steady at 55-60 mpw for the last couple of months. Mid-fifties age.

Thoughts/recommendations?

In general I think 20 mile runs and a 50k races as preparation should be good enough if you are an experienced runner. The key (as mentioned here) is to start out very slow, no even slower than you think right now. Be mentally prepared to have a couple of low points and that you might have to walk a little bit. Something most would never do in a full run Marathon.

Also 50 milers come in different qualities. There is a huge difference between a 50 mile road races or a 50 mile high altitude mountain race. While the first you could expect to finish within 5 - 10 hours, a tough one might see winner times above 8 hours and the last runners are coming in in 16 hours. That also makes a huge difference in preparation for clothing and nutrition.

Good luck with your 50 miler!