What happens when this hits 200 pages? Genuinely the greatest thread in LetsRun history - can we get a black page for Sirpoc and/or maybe a Sirpoc Podcast appearance?
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
No this isn't true. I think this is where a lot of people are getting confused. It's a exponentially weighted average, about 90% over that time frame. But all the data you have ever put in, contributes to it, just the further you go back the less weight it carries.
It takes a long time, but eventually for the most part your CTL will just become your TSS average for the previous 42 days.
But imagine you started at zero, the way it works is let's say you did 100 TSS a day. After 42 days your CTL would be 63.7. It would take you 316 days to finally reach a rounded figure of 100 CTL. After that, your choices are do more intensity, do longer durations, or both. If you stick to 100 TSS at that point, in simplistic terms , then you have plataued.
I've mentioned before, this is why the second year I trained like this, the gains have been harder to get. You have to be creative and try and do more. But still, essentially every session ever still contributes, it's just the stuff i did 2 years ago is now minuscule in the calculation.
I will also add, it's probably only useful if you are trying to compare like for like. If you are really mixing up your training outside of what I am doing, rTSS probably isn't going to tell you the whole story anyway. The consistency of it (much like with power) seems to really work around the sub-threshold level. Of course, I have said before probably easy runs are over represented in rTSS. But again, assuming you roughly run them at the same % of intensity relative to your current fitness you input, it'll stay consistently over represented in time, so doesn't really matter if our intention is just to use it as a practical tool (which is all I care about). I'll happily leave the science to the much smarter guys than me.
It's likely why the graph I shared on Strava fit so neatly, in terms of load versus performance, because my sessions are still for the most part comparible in intensity going right back (with a few changes to sneak in extra load) but also a decent invease in overall training time.
In absolute simple terms , my daily average per session a year ago was 60 TSS per week and now it's 70. There's probably no real suprise that I'm fitter now, because I'm doing the same thing with a sprinkle of pushing the limits of sub threshold intensity, or just more or the same but longer. How you make up that increase is for you to work out, but that comes with experience if training like this.
WRONG. CTL Is just 42 days training average. Simple.
WRONG. CTL Is just 42 days training average. Simple.
No, it's not. Read my post properly. I think that roughly does it justice on the level and uneducated hobby jogger like me understands. Probably also in depth we need to go into it.
TSS and CTL are also not the entire picture and that important on an isolated level. To phrase Andrew himself, garbage in garbage out. So it's only as good as what gets inputted , but also have in mind especially rTSS if that's what you are using, is only really is great in the narrow window I train in, with easy runs at 65% of MAS maximum and the pace ranges that seem to hold up pretty well. Outside of that there's some iffy numbers. Hard2find I've put in charge of fixing that but he's lost in an excel sheet somewhere trying to locate MLSS or working out the latest data lexel sent him probably.
By training the same way, it's very good at comparing apples to apples in terms of a good as any true representation of load you'll find. But still only makes up part of the bigger picture. I think most people who have really had success training like this, will know what I mean.
Anyway, I'm glad and genuinely pleased so many people have enjoyed this thread. Maybe it'll die one day and give me a break ha ha it's a out of control, but now we are I guess into the thousands based on the Strava group alone, I suppose that has to be a good thing.
Even the trolls sometimes provide some good content.
The variation is just to keep from getting bored. They're all expected to give the same training stimulus, which is the reason for the slightly different paces.
Page 200, and it seem to be that you miss me desperately. Because you mention me in every second post :)
Do you have a training question? Maybe how to break your stagnation now?
Or shall we discuss the Brexit situation now in UK?
Yes Lexel, I would love your help. I am stagnated so much I only beat by 10k PB by 30 seconds last month. Where do I go from here? That's called ironic humour by the way. As I know humour is pretty alien to you.
Yes Lexel, I would love your help. I am stagnated so much I only beat by 10k PB by 30 seconds last month. Where do I go from here? That's called ironic humour by the way. As I know humour is pretty alien to you.
Lexel owns thread. He owns you, Coggan and Tard2find.
Lexel owns thread. He owns you, Coggan and Tard2find.
Literally replying to me within minutes. That's impressive dedication to trolling! I assume you are the "Fat Jan" account on Strava, great work by the way I think we all applaud that. Very funny.
As for lexel owning me. Well for sure he's read more papers than I have ever dared. But his application of it's usage, I think just about everyone will agree is poor and he gets caught up chasing his own tale. I'm not a scientist or even have a very scientific mind, but I think I can communicate very well with people and apply the things I do know, to success. I'll leave that for people to decide.
I'll clear up the other two points. Coggan, whilst like marmite, has probably done more for the casual self coached athlete to understand their own training than anyone in the last 25 years. Whether anyone likes that or not, that's just a fact. Even though we are on a running site, just about everyone can learn something from his original book. Lexel will never be Coggan. As much as he probably wants to be.
As for Hard2find, I mean come on, do I even need to defend him? His contribution to this thread speaks for itself. There's a reason lexel messages him asking for him to disentangle his data (note lexel, this is called a joke, or and example of banter).
Lexel, for the record I think deep down is a good guy who wants to be liked or respected. But, you have to do something to earn it or just communicate in a better way.
Right, how I'm off to do some strength training, strides and then run a few time trials to find my CS after some hill repeats.
Been following this thread since its early days. Following your training I've gone from:
18:11 5k (track, xc, & road over the last 10 years) on Jack Daniel's training / 50 mpw to 17:38 on Sirpoc structure / 30 mpw. I'm looking to build up to 50 mpw and see where your training takes me next--an injury took me out for a solid year before I could attempt this.
Anyways just another anecdotal story of one of thousands you've affected--you're a treasure to the running community.
Literally replying to me within minutes. That's impressive dedication to trolling! I assume you are the "Fat Jan" account on Strava, great work by the way I think we all applaud that. Very funny.
As for lexel owning me. Well for sure he's read more papers than I have ever dared. But his application of it's usage, I think just about everyone will agree is poor and he gets caught up chasing his own tale. I'm not a scientist or even have a very scientific mind, but I think I can communicate very well with people and apply the things I do know, to success. I'll leave that for people to decide.
I'll clear up the other two points. Coggan, whilst like marmite, has probably done more for the casual self coached athlete to understand their own training than anyone in the last 25 years. Whether anyone likes that or not, that's just a fact. Even though we are on a running site, just about everyone can learn something from his original book. Lexel will never be Coggan. As much as he probably wants to be.
As for Hard2find, I mean come on, do I even need to defend him? His contribution to this thread speaks for itself. There's a reason lexel messages him asking for him to disentangle his data (note lexel, this is called a joke, or and example of banter).
Lexel, for the record I think deep down is a good guy who wants to be liked or respected. But, you have to do something to earn it or just communicate in a better way.
Right, how I'm off to do some strength training, strides and then run a few time trials to find my CS after some hill repeats.
You don't need to justify yourself to lexel of all people! Everything you have done for this sub section of LRC and the wider hobby joggers community to make all this practical, is legendary.
Interesting you say that about Coggan. I thought he was just a super troll. I might pick up a copy of his book now, I just looked it up.
You don't need to justify yourself to lexel of all people! Everything you have done for this sub section of LRC and the wider hobby joggers community to make all this practical, is legendary.
Interesting you say that about Coggan. I thought he was just a super troll. I might pick up a copy of his book now, I just looked it up.
Several times Poopy wrote bad about Coggan, really in the worst way!
You don't need to justify yourself to lexel of all people! Everything you have done for this sub section of LRC and the wider hobby joggers community to make all this practical, is legendary.
Interesting you say that about Coggan. I thought he was just a super troll. I might pick up a copy of his book now, I just looked it up.
Several times Poopy wrote bad about Coggan, really in the worst way!
Now he is Poopies hero??
Seems like a wrong guy to me.
If you’re going to troll at least make this somewhat enjoyable to read
Got the syntactic skills of a total knuckle walker
Several times Poopy wrote bad about Coggan, really in the worst way!
Now he is Poopies hero??
Seems like a wrong guy to me.
I'm not sure what this post even means? Do I like the way Coggan conducts himself online? Probably not. Do I think his time could be used better than to troll back and forth with Trev the Rev for a decade? Yes. But it's his life he can do what he wants. He's not destroyed this thread (and wasn't trying to). He maybe educated lexel a bit. Again, it's his time he can post what he wants. I'm not the guardian of this thread despite people appointing me that. He's certainly been better behaved in my experience here than when I encounted him in a previous life on the TT forums.
But 1. We wouldn't have this thread without Coggan's influence in the past and 2. I still would stand by, whatever you think of him he's still done more to popularise a simple way to account for load, better than anyone else. This can be applied to some extent to running and he's totally been part of the power revolution of cycling which has totally transformed training into being better or more optimal whether anyone likes it or not.
More importantly, I'm sure he doesn't care one bit what my opinion is. Or anyone else for that matter.
Sorry to bring some negativity here but is anyone else getting slower? I haven't changed anything in my training except to add a little more sub threshold. Over the past 3 months I've slowed by 20-30 seconds from a high of 17:30ish. I'm thinking that perhaps my improvement came from racing parkrun / doing races most weeks and not from the sub threshold. I'm not sure but it's really frustrating. I feel like the premise of sub threshold is correct but it's not translating into improved fitness for me.
Sorry to bring some negativity here but is anyone else getting slower? I haven't changed anything in my training except to add a little more sub threshold. Over the past 3 months I've slowed by 20-30 seconds from a high of 17:30ish. I'm thinking that perhaps my improvement came from racing parkrun / doing races most weeks and not from the sub threshold. I'm not sure but it's really frustrating. I feel like the premise of sub threshold is correct but it's not translating into improved fitness for me.
It's definitely possible, but you don't give a lot of detail. What does your most recent week of training look like?