Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

It's better to err on the side of caution and run a little slower.

Go to page 60 post and find the post of "summary" to find your paces.

They're very similar. I'd stick with Tinmans approach if it's working for you since Tinman has easily accessible online calculators, & more time & research behind the method.

I found this thread recently and am going to use the it to document my journey with this. For background, I am 46 years old and male with a marathon best of 2:39 set in 2011. I used to run pretty high mileage, averaging over 70mpw for over a decade and peaks in triple digits. Since 2016 my running has been mostly downhill due to struggles with achilles issues. I had the full Galen Rupp surgery in Sept 2023 (achilles debridement and calcaneal osteotomy) and spent a year recovering and have only recently gotten my mileage to where I feel like I can do anything. The week of Dec 9th I ran 60 miles for the first time in years, for example.

I have no imminent racing goals, and I don't expect I'll ever be in 2:39 marathon shape again. I ran a 10k turkey trot at 6:27 pace, so I am using that as my baseline. Let's see what happens over 2025.

Week of Dec 16

My first week using this approach. I ran each day Monday - Saturday.

M: 6 miles at 8:48 pace

T: 3 x 3k at 6:53 pace, 10 miles total with warm up and cool down

W: 7 miles at 8:33 pace

T: 5 x 2k at 6:44 pace, 10 miles total with warm up and cool down

F: 7 miles at 8:32 pace

S: 12 miles at 8:11 pace

S: 90 minute easy spin, low Z2

So 52 miles of running. Felt good and strong. Plan on rotating weeks of 2 workouts and weeks of 3 workouts.

I've been reading Marius Bakken's interview that was also shared somewhere else prior. He mentioned that he is very fond of a 45seconds/15seconds Rest workout. Anyone here has experience with that one?

runningwritings.com

Marius Bakken in his own words: double threshold, lactate testing, altitude, periodization, and more

John Davis

Link:runningwritings.com/2024/09/marius-bak...

Thank you.

Wow. Thank you!

Lots. I really like that one. So easy to control your intensity. Good workout with a higher speed.

What kind of pace to you do for 45/15s and how much volume?

As I said I'd chronicle my experience here. Week 2 down.

M: 4 x 3k at 6:53 pace on the treadmill, 11 miles total with warm up and cool down.

T: 7.7 miles very easy at 8:32 pace

W: 5 x 2k on the track (8:25, 22, 20, 22, 23), 10.1 total.

T: 7 miles very easy a 8:38 pace

F: 8 x 1k in 4:10, treadmill. 9.2 miles total

S: 30 minute very easy spin

S: 15 miles at 8:22 pace.

60 total miles for the week. Wednesday was pretty taxing, maybe a bit too fast. The rest was very manageable and felt good.

Depends. Honestly 45/15 is my first workout after injuries and time off, then it can be as little volume as 15-20 reps. Usually I am at 30 reps, progressive increase of speed throughout at around 10k, down towards 5k pace.

Its an interesting session where your HR stays high, but if you don't go out too hard your legs feel pretty good the whole session.

Welp, after going through all 186 pages, sifting through all the arguments with the trolls, I find this... :D

Fantastic recap, thanks for the work!

And thanks to everyone with valuable comments and tips for the first useful thread on this cesspit of a forum

Thanks!

Would be cool to hear other experience with the workout! I'm gonna dig up some recommendations on how to do it from some of the OG norwegian method athletes.

I think sirpoc mentioned somewhere that he tried it, but it made him feel too fatigued so he dropped it.

If your volume is at 22.5 minutes (30 reps) for the 45/15s, is that because you are doing the other ST workouts with similar volume? Or are you doing this with less volume than the other ST workouts who are typically done at round 30 minutes?

Why was the original post removed?

I know this was discussed a bit around Page 130, but wanted to bring it up again.

I understand that this question probably comes across as lazy (in a way, it is).

If someone was coming from a relatively trained background and didn't want to necessarily run PRs, but wanted to put themselves in pretty good shape (with the possibility of shifting focus and increasing volume in the future): What are the downsides of JUST doing 3 sub-threshold efforts per week, or 2 and a LR? (aka no running recovery days)? I feel like Bakken might do something similar in retirment?

I want to experiment a bit this winter and spring, but coaching track in the afternoon leaves me only mornings, and while I actually enjoy Sub-T on the treadmill, I dread easy runs and have other things I'd rather focus on.

Many here seem really adamant about only a certain percentage (25-30%) of volume being sub-T, but is this because it will (understandably) lead to a lack of improvement without easy volume? Or because somehow the workouts might fry you without the recovery/hormonal effect of easy running? I really just want to enjoy training and stay in 17:00 5k shape, which is a little over 2 mins off my PR. I was able to do this in the Fall with a quality LR, a sub-T effort and a Daniels style 5k paced workout and not much else.

If my easy days are OFF of running instead, does anyone have any insight or experience with this leading to injury or burnout?

Thanks!

Likely, without easy running to buffer up the sub-T workouts, it becomes harder to improve since you lose a big element of gaining aerobic ability. You might end up detraining a little before hitting some 3 sub-T workout equilibrium.

But the 25-30% volume being sub-T rule is just a rule to allow for even distribution of volume as you add more and more past your baseline. Basically, if you plan on adding significant volume, it can't all be sub-T or you'll burn out, but it shouldn't all be easy since then you're missing out on some gains. 25-30% sub-T adding is the sweet spot.

But if your volume comes from sub-T only already, there's no problem if you're resting instead of doing easy runs, except that it's less aerobic management training. But like I said above, do account for a little bit of detraining only running 3 times a day compared to more full weeks. So it might mean your sub-T workouts get slower for a while before settling. Definitely don't try to stick to same sub-T paces as when you're running a lot more because as your fitness falls a bit it might not be sub-T anymore and then all that injury risk yada yada grows bigger.

This is really helpful - and exactly what I was looking for - I appreciate it!

I will plan to take my 16:55 time from a week ago that I ran on a few days a week of training, and add a few seconds on to the suggested paces to be safe. Thanks again.