Who needs soldiers to loot things, when your city government and museums can just do the looting themselves? And only concede they were wrong after significant efforts and bad press?
I guess when your whole economy is predicated on being a safe haven for Nazis and worse, you don't want to ask too many questions. Sounds like it's past time for every Swiss bank account and museum undergo an external audit (I suggest Israel take the lead) to figure out how many billions or trillions of dollars Switzerland has stolen.
There are huge numbers of people in the US that don't agree with US foreign policy. Maybe if you actually left your little Swiss bubble you would understand that.
But, now I'm confused. Did you answer the question? Do you think Russia was right to invade Ukraine? You seem to be waffling and have so far said, "yes", "no", "maybe", and "sarcasm" so forgive me if it's not clear what your answer is.
I know what I feel is right. I'm trying to figure out what you and carmine think is right. So, maybe just try giving a straight answer to the question:
Do you think Russia was right to invade Ukraine?
I've been to Switzerland. Geneva is the perhaps the least interesting city in the least interesting country in Europe. A filthy lake surrounded by a overwhelmingly boring, mediocre city. 10% of the Swiss population lives below the poverty level. So, just because you don't see the issues, doesn't mean they don't exist. (I've spent quite a bit of time at the University of Geneva. I'm quite thankful I don't have any plans to go back. My in-laws lived in Geneva for 2 years. They couldn't wait to leave.)
I assume you're referring to ETH (the only non-terrible university in Switzerland - I've also been there, and it was mediocre at best.) and is only ranked some 22 or 23 spots behind the university I'm at.
Oh, you're asking me personally?
There is no right or wrong, there are only powerful and powerless, especially on a global scale. Empires do what they have to do to protect themselves. The US does what the US does and Russia does what Russia does. EVERY country has war history soaked with blood of the civilians. Is it wrong? From the perspective of the civilians, yes. From the perspective of leaders of empires, no, since inaction will lead to collapse of the empire.
This entire thread reminds me of a "yin and yang", where each side blames the other one, when in reality, they're pretty much the same thing.
I'm glad you've been to beautiful Switzerland. Would you please tell forum members how many homeless people you saw there, or how many public shootings you were aware of in Switzerland? Did you have to avoid specific areas there or did our metro stink like urine?
I also have been to the US multiple times. I was fascinated by how dirty Los Angeles is, how junkies are begging for money even on Malibu beach, how homeless lay in their own piss on the "Walk of Fame", how borderline - retarded native Americans are on Lake Powell and how bizarrly overweight and ignorant people in Idaho are. The nature is beautiful though.
Blah blah blah. Answer the question. Do you think Russia was right to invade Ukraine.
I saw quite a few homeless drunks all around Geneva, mostly harassing tourists. No shootings, of course I've never witnessed one in the US either. The metro did smell like a weird mix of cheese and urine.
I also witnessed rampant racism (far worse than I've ever witnessed in the US), and generally rude, ignorant, and annoying behavior from all sorts of people (the owner of the little hotel I stayed at was fantastic though - we were working like 20-22 hour days and by the third day he started packing up breakfast for us to take on our way out the door).
So you are going to ignore that you incorrectly equated the goals for the US and Russian invasions.
And your references to US abuses still doesn't justify your statement that the actions of the two countries are "literally" the same. But maybe that is what we should expect from a country with the working motto: 'Everyone with money is our friend, regardless of the amount of blood dripping from it or the crimes committed to get it.'
Do you even know the goals of Russian invasion? What's even the difference of what the goals are, if the results are the same: dead, injured and raped civilians, destroyed and looted cities?
What you've made of Afghanistan is a lot worse of what's awaiting Ukraine, even if your media packed the reasons of the war in pretty words. War is war.
Distilling your last few posts to a single contention, Lollys Master says that a war of aggression against a foreign country to gain territory and steal resources is "literally" the same thing as a war to defend against an attacker, because 'war is war'.
Tell us, in your pristine snow globe of a country is a person who punches a person who is trying to kill him punished the same as a person who walks up to someone and punches them without provocation? After all, punches are punches and violence is violence.
So you are going to ignore that you incorrectly equated the goals for the US and Russian invasions.
And your references to US abuses still doesn't justify your statement that the actions of the two countries are "literally" the same. But maybe that is what we should expect from a country with the working motto: 'Everyone with money is our friend, regardless of the amount of blood dripping from it or the crimes committed to get it.'
Do you even know the goals of Russian invasion? What's even the difference of what the goals are, if the results are the same: dead, injured and raped civilians, destroyed and looted cities?
What you've made of Afghanistan is a lot worse of what's awaiting Ukraine, even if your media packed the reasons of the war in pretty words. War is war.
It certainly seems like Russia seeks to annex Donetsk and Luhansk and gain recognition of Russian-occupied Crimea. I can't imagine how Putin could sell anything less as "victory" - even to a bunch of ignorant Russians. Now, maybe Putin will change his mind and decide he's good with returning to pre-2014 borders if Ukraine pinky swears not to join NATO, but that seems unlikely.
So, since the US did not annex anything in the last 30 years, on the surface it seems like there are some significant differences between recent US military actions and Russian military actions.
So, a bunch of articles on mostly American websites talking about US crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan is your idea of the media keeping quiet about it? You may want to request a refund from your 24th ranked university.
I specifically picked the ones from the US and the ones well known internationally to exclude accusations of "relying on wrong sources". There are a lot more articles about attrocities commited by the US troops on non-American news pages than on American ones. That's keeping quiet in my book. It would be an unheard scandal for the Swiss to have dones similar things, every last Swiss would have heard about it and the government that sanctioned such actions would be brought to consequences. In turn, your presidents get awarded nobel peace prizes for killing the biggest amount of children in other countries. No outrage?
If you want to pick on my education, you're free to chose a language other than english and we can continue. The fact, that my english grammar is better than that of many American posters speaks for itself.
So, a bunch of articles on mostly American websites talking about US crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan is your idea of the media keeping quiet about it? You may want to request a refund from your 24th ranked university.
I specifically picked the ones from the US and the ones well known internationally to exclude accusations of "relying on wrong sources". There are a lot more articles about attrocities commited by the US troops on non-American news pages than on American ones. That's keeping quiet in my book. It would be an unheard scandal for the Swiss to have dones similar things, every last Swiss would have heard about it and the government that sanctioned such actions would be brought to consequences. In turn, your presidents get awarded nobel peace prizes for killing the biggest amount of children in other countries. No outrage?
If you want to pick on my education, you're free to chose a language other than english and we can continue. The fact, that my english grammar is better than that of many American posters speaks for itself.
The Swiss literally took Jewish goods from the Nazis and refused to give them back. There's no national uproar about it in Switzerland, even though the government is dragging its feet on doing anything about it.
ALL of these events have to be analyzed separately. The significant distinctions and differences between US/NATO involvement in Afghanistan, or anywhere else these childish whaddabboudyou? types list, and Russia's attack and attempt to destroy and occupy Ukraine, are large and broad. They range from the purpose, to the military skill and accomplishments, to the type of warfare, to the treatment of the civilians and sovereignty, to the political goals and endeavors, to the final result.
Afghanistan and Ukraine, in particular, are drastically different -- that is truly an apples and oranges comparison -- and that Putin apologist LollyMast should have picked a better whaddabbodyou? example, but lacked the understanding, knowledge or argumentative skill to do so.
The more you will keep looking for differences, the more similarities you will find. Losing, killing civilians, raping, looting, it's all there. Your media only reports about it not too often, but the international media does, just google it. It's mind-blowing how you either don't know about it, or chose to ignore it.
No. There are significant differences even in the disingenuous, argumentative terms you listed: "killing civilians," "raping" and "looting." Yep, significant differences between US-Afghanistan and Russia-Ukraine even in those "areas" you listed with respect to frequency, acknowledgement, prevention, accountability, punishment and especially with respect to military policy -- one nation strongly condemns such behaviors by its soldiers, the other nation appears to teach such behaviors in its basic training manuals and to believe its part of effective military strategy and operations.
You've said nothing with your response other than more whaddabboudyou? and listed some dramatic instances (which ALSO must be analyzed separately), and you STILL can't say which side of the fence you are on with Ukraine. That's the real problem that immature, half-wits like you and carmine9 face with whaddabbodyou? -- you can't think where you're going with your attempted distraction/deflections. I think you don't even know.
There are VAST differences between Afghanistan and Ukraine (I listed some areas where they are easily seen). And you apparently don't consume much US media, much of which has for decades seemed to go out of its way to criticize (even condemn) the US military and certain foreign policies.
Do you even know the goals of Russian invasion? What's even the difference of what the goals are, if the results are the same: dead, injured and raped civilians, destroyed and looted cities?
What you've made of Afghanistan is a lot worse of what's awaiting Ukraine, even if your media packed the reasons of the war in pretty words. War is war.
Distilling your last few posts to a single contention, Lollys Master says that a war of aggression against a foreign country to gain territory and steal resources is "literally" the same thing as a war to defend against an attacker, because 'war is war'.
Tell us, in your pristine snow globe of a country is a person who punches a person who is trying to kill him punished the same as a person who walks up to someone and punches them without provocation? After all, punches are punches and violence is violence.
Every war has a reason presented to public and also the real reason. I can admit, that while Russia is dressing up its efforts of keeping Ukraine NATO-free with "de-nazification" and "stopping genocide of Russian-speaking Ukrainians", so does the US in every single country it has invaded. Oil, gas, influence is always been the primary reason for the US and it is always been sold as "bringing freedom and democracy".
Afghanistan is now much worse off than it was 20 years ago.
Who cares what the reasons were. Civilians are just as dead, women and children just as raped, cities looted and destroyed in the same ways.
Any poster that will write the real reason of the US invasion in Afghanistan will get an "attaboy" from me.
The Swiss literally took Jewish goods from the Nazis and refused to give them back. There's no national uproar about it in Switzerland, even though the government is dragging its feet on doing anything about it.
Yawn. Let me know when Switzerland kills 200.000 civilians in other countries and will do nothing about it. Also please notify me when Switzerland will have at least two secret prisons dedicated to torturing prisoners of war.
I am not sitting here discussing how evil Russia is while my country is causing civilian casualties in Yemen as we speak, in real time.
"But that would require the Pentagon to do something that so far it has so far refused to do in Yemen: admit it made a mistake and killed civilians who had nothing to do with al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)."
The U.S. has so far refused to acknowledge a mistake that killed relatives of Adel al-Manthari, a Yemeni drone victim who may now lose his legs as a result of his injuries.
Distilling your last few posts to a single contention, Lollys Master says that a war of aggression against a foreign country to gain territory and steal resources is "literally" the same thing as a war to defend against an attacker, because 'war is war'.
Tell us, in your pristine snow globe of a country is a person who punches a person who is trying to kill him punished the same as a person who walks up to someone and punches them without provocation? After all, punches are punches and violence is violence.
Every war has a reason presented to public and also the real reason. I can admit, that while Russia is dressing up its efforts of keeping Ukraine NATO-free with "de-nazification" and "stopping genocide of Russian-speaking Ukrainians", so does the US in every single country it has invaded. Oil, gas, influence is always been the primary reason for the US and it is always been sold as "bringing freedom and democracy".
Afghanistan is now much worse off than it was 20 years ago.
Who cares what the reasons were. Civilians are just as dead, women and children just as raped, cities looted and destroyed in the same ways.
Any poster that will write the real reason of the US invasion in Afghanistan will get an "attaboy" from me.
Oil, gas, influence, natural resources? None of those were the public or private reasons for Afghanistan. There was one reason, and it wasn't any of those and it wasn't to make Afghanistan better. It was the United States protecting its own territory by eliminating a group that had attacked the US in its territory. And in a ranking of reasons for a war, most honest people would put that towards the good end of the scale.
And to head off a side topic, I stipulate that like everyone else, the United States is incompetent in nation-building.
Ummm . . . pretty sure that the US never had any intention of annexing Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan.
Maybe you just don't understand the definition of "literally". Is that what the problem is?
Yet it did invade Iraq without the UN mandate, which equals war crime. Is this why the US doesn't recognise the authority of the International Criminal Court in Hague? Because it would make George W. Bush and the US congress war criminals?
Simply supporting a violent regime change with military power and money is an act of war by itself and that's the style of the US. A riddle for you: which country killed most innocent civilians of other countries since year 2000?
So, you are admitting that you do not understand the word, "literally". Don't fee bad, this is a word which often presents problems for Russians trying to learn English.
It's weird how only Jews, who were @ 1% of the German population in the 1930s, apparently owned all of the art and are "recovering" it nearly 90 years later.
Any other group getting anything?
Japanese Americans?
Native Peoples?
Black people?
The people in Iraq, Libya, Syria?
How about the Palestinians who had their homes and land stolen and their families killed? Nothing for them?
Distilling your last few posts to a single contention, Lollys Master says that a war of aggression against a foreign country to gain territory and steal resources is "literally" the same thing as a war to defend against an attacker, because 'war is war'.
Tell us, in your pristine snow globe of a country is a person who punches a person who is trying to kill him punished the same as a person who walks up to someone and punches them without provocation? After all, punches are punches and violence is violence.
Any poster that will write the real reason of the US invasion in Afghanistan will get an "attaboy" from me.
Do it the adult way. YOU write "the real reason of the US invasion in Afghanistan." And then if your analysis suffers from cheap cynicism, more whaddabboudyou?, unsupported facts and weird anti-America bias (all very likely), others can respond.
It's weird how only Jews, who were @ 1% of the German population in the 1930s, apparently owned all of the art and are "recovering" it nearly 90 years later.
Any other group getting anything?
Japanese Americans?
Native Peoples?
Black people?
The people in Iraq, Libya, Syria?
How about the Palestinians who had their homes and land stolen and their families killed? Nothing for them?
Dude, you've outed yourself on these threads many, many times. No need to overdo it.
The more you will keep looking for differences, the more similarities you will find. Losing, killing civilians, raping, looting, it's all there. Your media only reports about it not too often, but the international media does, just google it. It's mind-blowing how you either don't know about it, or chose to ignore it.
No. There are significant differences even in the disingenuous, argumentative terms you listed: "killing civilians," "raping" and "looting." Yep, significant differences between US-Afghanistan and Russia-Ukraine even in those "areas" you listed with respect to frequency, acknowledgement, prevention, accountability, punishment and especially with respect to military policy -- one nation strongly condemns such behaviors by its soldiers, the other nation appears to teach such behaviors in its basic training manuals and to believe its part of effective military strategy and operations.
You've said nothing with your response other than more whaddabboudyou? and listed some dramatic instances (which ALSO must be analyzed separately), and you STILL can't say which side of the fence you are on with Ukraine. That's the real problem that immature, half-wits like you and carmine9 face with whaddabbodyou? -- you can't think where you're going with your attempted distraction/deflections. I think you don't even know.
There are VAST differences between Afghanistan and Ukraine (I listed some areas where they are easily seen). And you apparently don't consume much US media, much of which has for decades seemed to go out of its way to criticize (even condemn) the US military and certain foreign policies.
There are no real differences, buddy, no matter how you wanna twist it. In your next post please include 5 articles about the US military raping children in the Middle East and explain how it differs from Russian soldiers raping Ukrainians.
Hypocrisy seems to have deep roots in American culture.
It's weird how only Jews, who were @ 1% of the German population in the 1930s, apparently owned all of the art and are "recovering" it nearly 90 years later.
Any other group getting anything?
Japanese Americans?
Native Peoples?
Black people?
The people in Iraq, Libya, Syria?
How about the Palestinians who had their homes and land stolen and their families killed? Nothing for them?
Dude, you've outed yourself on these threads many, many times. No need to overdo it.
So you support the US spending $40B on the people of Iraq, Libya, and Syria; but not on Ukraine?
Any poster that will write the real reason of the US invasion in Afghanistan will get an "attaboy" from me.
Do it the adult way. YOU write "the real reason of the US invasion in Afghanistan." And then if your analysis suffers from cheap cynicism, more whaddabboudyou?, unsupported facts and weird anti-America bias (all very likely), others can respond.
Just like i thought. You either do not know the real reason or your American pride is not letting you to out your country as a war criminal.
For you anything that goes to point out war crimes of the US is "unsupported facts". But when someone outs the US as a war criminal with "supported facts" and documents, they get prosecuted for treason, see Assange.
And you people sit here and talk about Russia like it has done something, the US hasn't done before. It's like prostitutes talking about how someone's a slut, simply disgusting.
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