50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

If you don't have much money for shoes then you also don't have much money for doctor copays, insurance deductibles, and the like. So don't run in a bad shoe. Just my own experience, if I am running less than 25 mpw then shoes don't matter much. Above 30 mpw then I cannot be in the wrong shoe. Something about running while tired makes a big difference there. I use a local specialty running shop, where I get a 15% discount because I belong to their running club. I know I could get a better price online, but since I need and use their expertise I feel it's only fair to pay them for it. On the other foot, many runners I know will visit the running store only when they need a new model. Once they settle on a shoe that works for them, they order replacements online. I don't know of any experinced runners who use the chain stores.

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Week 161

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Greetings 50+ers on this 4th of July weekend. Hope that you all are having a safe and meaningful extended weekend. Here in Lexington, my wife and I did walk the parade in support of a candidate we both admire, but mostly we've just been enjoying the atypically dry and mild summer weather. It was so good, that I couldn't turn down racing on the 4th (I'll get to that). Ended the week with 27 miles of running and another 10+ miles of walking. The log reads as such:

Sun: off (WI relatives passed through town on way to NC)

Mon: 4.1 w/2.6@6:30 pace (very hot and muggy....ugh!)

Tue: 4.0 easy (still sweltering)

Wed. 4.2 w/8x(1/2 "on", 1/2 "off") & 3+ miles walking

Thur: off

Fri: 7.0 w/10K race in 40:01 & 4+ miles walking

Sat: 7.7 super easy & 3+ miles walking

Monday's hard tempo was meant to give me a sense of what I might be able to run if I chose to run Friday (I was still on the fence at this point.) Usually, I can hold race pace for about 35-40% of the race distance during a training run....so I figured I *might* be good for 6:30 pace, but that's a big *might* as I really haven't done enough long runs to race a full 10k (along with all of my other training shortcomings.) I was also concerned that my hip would tighten up (up to now, I haven't been able to run more than about 4 hard miles without that happening.) By Wednesday, they were calling for Friday morning to be in the upper 50's and dry, so I couldn't resist signing up to race the 4th. As such, my Wednesday evening workout was a typical pre-race tune-up type workout, where the "on"s were at 5k pace and the "off"s were about 10s slower. Followed it up with a nice leisurely hour+ walk with my wife. The weather shifted on Thursday, and, sure enough, Friday morning was absolutely ideal for racing.

Race time was 7:30, but I got there at 6:30 where a couple of club members and I set up an awning at the finish, where our club members could congregate to share stories and recovery beverages. My entire warm-up consisted of walk/jogging down to the start from there. My race plan was to stick to 6:30 pace and just see how long I could hold on, figuring that at some point I'd probably just run out of gas. As usual, I got caught up in the excitement and got out a little too fast. We came through the mile at about 6:16, but then I throttled back for the second mile to 6:21 (it's naturally a faster mile). By this point, I mostly was just homing in on a couple of runners around me and we hit the third (and slower) mile in 6:36, thus coming through the 5K mark at 19:45 (30s faster than the 5k's I'd run this spring....but I've had 8 more weeks of good training under my belt and am carrying 4 fewer pounds). The fourth mile should be a faster one, but I was starting to doubt myself that I could handle the uphill fifth mile, so I didn't push it and came through at 6:31. So onto the last uphill on the 5th mile and I gave it what I could coming though with a 6:32, but now I was starting to feel the lack of endurance. The last 1.2 rolls downhill into downtown and then a flat 1/2 mile to the finish. I pushed as hard as I could for 6:24 on the sixth mile, but the youngsters around me just kicked my butt into the finish, I had nothing left to give and just kept it steady, finishing the last 0.2x in 1:21. So summarizing the miles (6:16,6:21,6:36,6:31,6:32,6:24,1:21)---a full 3-minutes off of last year's time, but I'm more than happy to have made it through no worse for wear, and I didn't tighten up! Everything else this weekend has been icing on the cake, including that this was good enough for 1st place in the 50-54 age group. So the good news is that even with this muscle tear, I'm getting back to some semblance of fitness. Maybe, with continued cautious development, the 55-59 age group that I'll be entering in the fall will be fruitful....we'll see.

One other note from the race. My good friend and 71-year-old masters ace Don Coffman is really getting himself back into pretty decent shape this spring. He ran a 1:31:27 HM mid-April, and finished yesterday's Bluegrass 10000 in 41:59! Kudos!

OK. That's more than a mouth-full. One last thing, I saw this in Runners World, and thought of you, Gretehund:

http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/after-burn

Hopefully, all that slogging through the Texas summer heat and humidity will reap benefits in the fall!

As always, I look forward to hearing about your week, and hope to read some good race reports!

Cheers!

Mon. 1 hr 5 min mtn bike ride on the Knowsley Forest trails mostly fairly flat one section of testing hills.

Tue. 18.3 km hilly trail run in Bendigo'One Tree Hill forests after work.300 metres of elevation gain, some sections on tricky single track.1 hr 50 mins. A few slow kms in the dark in the middle of the forest, finished along the road.

Wed. 1 hr paddle on the lake, tranquil waters with a lovely sunset, magic!

Thu. 8 km run into work after leaving the car at the All Seasons Hotel. Mostly along rail trail, ave 5.14 per km.

10.30pm. Ran back out to the car 7.8 km slower pace, ave 5.37, return run is more uphill. Body was pretty battered after being bashed from pillar to post at work all night.

Fri. 1 hr mtn bike ride up to the top of the McIvor Range, about 15 km and 215 metres of elevation gain. Finishing in the dark so downhill pace was a little slow.

Sat. Ran the 14 km Sugarloaf/Goldmine loop. I run this one from time to time as it is half way between work and home. 70 mins is usually a good run when I am fit and firing. Clocked a surprising 68.36 without really pushing it. I was rolling home strongly but relaxed dropping down to the 4.30s over the last few kms. Maybe starting to turn the corner.

Actually measured at 13.8 kms with 100 metres of elevation gain.

Sun. 14 km run up on the McIvor Range, just twice over the top and only 343 metres gained, ave pace 6.03. The downhill 12th covered in a tidy 4.24 over rocky fire road.

A good week, a few less kms than recent weeks but still plenty more than in previous months. I am keeping the bike and kayak load down. Short cold wet winter days at the moment so it is hard to get increased running in without cutting back somewhere.

Great racing report! I have nothing exciting to post, except that I had 4 solid workouts this week. I did over 1200 stairs on Tuesday, weights on Wednesday, 2x200, 2x150, 2x100 on Thursday. Yesterday was 2x120, work on starts, then 3x120. I was planning on a workout today but my Achilles is a bit sore and tight. Since that is a huge hot-spot for me, I'm going to be wise and take a day off.

I had an issue during yesterday's workout on which someone may be able to shed some light: I got dizzy and weak after my final interval to the point where I had to sit down and put my head between my legs. The weather was fine, not too hot. I have been drinking enough fluids and I ate breakfast that had protein and complex carbs. I've always had low blood pressure and have been prone to fainting, but usually sprinting will raise BP. This also happened after running the 50m a few weeks ago: I was in the blocks for the 100m and I was shaking and light-headed. I thought it was low blood sugar, but now I wonder. Any insight?

Congrats on the 10K lucKY.

7 runs in 7 days. 3 hours and 9 minutes. Continuing to add a minute a day run mostly on rocky trail. Hit 30 min today. So I’m happy to make my C goal. Goal B is one hour. The knee is 100% as long as I don’t go too fast. But I don’t like to go slow. Today’s run was a tough one, one section has a 477 foot climb in one mile on tear-your-shoes-up eroded rocky trail. Loved it though I still don't like to get my shoes dirty.

Changed my mind on racing on the 4th. My knee's been acting up for weeks and didn't want to risk any further problems after racing 4 races in the last 4 weeks prior. Doesn't seem like anything real serious. I did get a little panicked Thusday though. The worst it had felt up to that point. It's gotten a little better since.

Ran a very hilly 9.4 miler Sat but went easy pace. Bought a bike this summer just for fun. Hadn't had a bike in over 30 years. So went for a couple of approx 1.5 hr rides this weekend.

44 running miles for the week.

Nice job on the 10k lucky. Dont think I could get near 40 right now. Hopefully in the future.

Raced a 4th of July 5k near Rtype turf. 18:50 is all i could muster and I was happy with it. Ran fairly even splits, no one passed me after halfway, but I caught, nor out kicked anyone either. Still I'll take it considering 6 months ago I was on crutches. One of these years when i'm in town for in-laws family visits Rtype we should go for a run and grab a beer. I see y'all are finally getting into the craft brewing 'round here.

KP

I'm dinged. Have been fine but just like that on a long tempo at the end of last week my knee started hurting. So I've been resting, nursing, testing and now I'll have to stop the testing for at least a week. Ice, NSAIDs, and rest with a little cycling for now.

The knee has had a number of issues, relating to arthritis, and once it goes south it's really hard to bring it back quickly. Hoping for the best but I might be cross training for weeks or months. Hopefully not years.

Anyway, I ran 3 days for a total of 16 miles and cycled the other days, about an hour each day.

Welp...Dave's injury woes continue. All of the running injuries from the past Spring seem to be taken care of and then I go and fall off the roof of an addition I'm building. Tuesday I fell eight feet straight down right on my back...felt like I crushed my tailbone. Still very bruised and sore. Lucky It wasn't much worse.

So I still race on the 4th. Didn't feel comfortable, ever. Went 18:18 on a hilly 3.3 mile course. Placed 5th and won the Masters going 5:36-5:28-5:44...It felt hard but did managed to beat another pretty good Masters guy by 20 seconds.

Hopefully the tailbone pain will go away, soon. Running another 5k this weekend. It will be the first Masters showdown with my training partner who turned 40 this year. Should be fun...

All the Best,

Dave

I'd be pretty darn happy if I fell off a roof and could still run sub-6:00 pace. I hope everyone gets over their injuries soon. My right hamstring and achilles are still not quite right after my 1/2M, so this was another easy week of 26mi. Both my sons were in town for the long weekend so there was a little running, a lot of BBQing, and a long morning of surfing today. A little less than 2 months to the beginning of our local XC series, so hopefully enough time to get fully healed and decently fit by then.

KP wrote:One of these years when i'm in town for in-laws family visits Rtype we should go for a run and grab a beer. I see y'all are finally getting into the craft brewing 'round here.

KP

That would be great KP, we have some nice pubs growing around here. Although considering the injuries, might be more drinkin than runnin :-)

Our "Four on the 4th" 4 miler was in 60 degree weather, Yeah! I ran 30:44 chip time, 55 seconds better than last year, and took 3rd of 13. After a VERY easy 4 mile run Saturday, I was able to go 11.5 miles on Sunday, my longest since mid-May's hilly 1/2 marathon. A 35 mile week after last week's 38, and the slightly greater mileage (compared to able 28 mpw) is having me feel stronger. However, I am certainly feeling the bursa in my right heel. I probably need another cortisone shot, but hate to go through that and spend that extra money, too.

Good running Lucky. Given your injury issues getting back to 37 is going to be tough. Every improvement you can get from here is a win I reckon.

Mike Lundgren wrote:

Our "Four on the 4th" 4 miler was in 60 degree weather, Yeah! I ran 30:44 chip time, 55 seconds better than last year, and took 3rd of 13. After a VERY easy 4 mile run Saturday, I was able to go 11.5 miles on Sunday, my longest since mid-May's hilly 1/2 marathon. A 35 mile week after last week's 38, and the slightly greater mileage (compared to able 28 mpw) is having me feel stronger. However, I am certainly feeling the bursa in my right heel. I probably need another cortisone shot, but hate to go through that and spend that extra money, too.

I'm curious Mike to know how much it would cost to get a cortisone injection?

Do you guys have to pay much for doctor's visit and would you have to also pay for the injection?

Greetings from the sweltering Southwest. After returning from Colorado, it feels like a steam bath here. May be that as I get older, I get less tolerant of hot weather.

thanks Lucky for the article on running in the heat. I forget every summer that the heat is going to take its toll on me and go through a period of disappointment with my performances. And then I remember - oh yeah, it is really hot and pace can be affected by 10 - 15%.

Had a great time with hubby and all the kids in Colorado Springs last week. We ran trails, biked, hiked and just generally enjoyed ourselves. Left the Garmin at home. On our final day there, we climb the Manitou Incline - 2700 + stairs (actually railroad ties) straight up 0.9 mi. Near the base of Pikes Peak in Manitou Springs. My son, the mountain climber, puts the rest of us to shame. But it is always a fun event to do with all our kids. And a great workout!

Last week back in Texas:

Mon: 8 mi with 5 x 600 m at 5K pace (2:30's) with training group

Tues: 8 mi easy in a.m. and 4 mi easy in p.m.

Wed: 8 mi with 5 x 600 m at 5K pace (2:30's) with training group

Thurs: 11 mi easy a.m.; 5K summer series race - 21:51 (think I am getting slower)

Fri: off for me - watched my husband and his son race a 5K near our home.

Sat: 12 miles very slow in high humidity

Sun: 7 mi easy

Been adding a few easy biking workouts and swim workouts just to stay loose as we enter the speed phase with my training group. Feeling good and no lingering injuries.

Good to see that all the rehabbing that some had to do is now paying off. Congrats Lucky on your race performance! I cannot believe that Dave ran a hard 5k after falling off a roof.

Week 161: 3 hours 50 minutes in 5 runs. Saturday long run 1 hr 50, the other four were just 30 mins elliptical + 30 mins treadmill - I don't count the elliptical part. The back issue is taking longer to resolve than I want, dang it! Feels pretty good as long as I am vertical.

Not too surprised by the AG wins. Runners run, racers race.

@Spikez - I also have had low blood pressure all my life, as a youngster any time I went from prone to standing I was at risk of blacking out. These days it's yoga that almost gets me, early in the sequence there's a moment where I transition to standing and basically wave in the breeze, wondering if this is the class when I finally topple over. In all these years I have only actually fallen down once, when I was weak with the flu.

Not sure about your 100m blocks incident, but the latest one does not sound like low blood sugar. Low blood sugar you don't bounce back from very quickly, although paradoxically if you eat something sweet then you might start to feel better before a single glucose molecule is fully digested. Also, I also don't think putting your head between your knees is much of a remedy for low blood sugar. Anyway, the test for low blood sugar is if it responds to food.

As for blood pressure, my understanding is that light exercise lowers it, and I can attest mine is slightly lower if I walk for five minutes just before measuring. Hard exercise might raise it but my suspicion is that like HR it is going to rise and fall if you are doing intervals. So you had trouble after the last rep ... was it the last one because you cut the workout short? If yes then it was still possibly "random" over the workout. Or was it planned as the last, and if so did you run it harder than the others? If yes to that one, it might have been the harder effort that did you in. So the subtler test here is whether it depends on intensity.

old guy II wrote:

I'd be pretty darn happy if I fell off a roof and could still run sub-6:00 pace.

Just guessing here: Dave left out the part where he climbed back on the roof to button it up. Yawn - so routine. ;)

old guy II wrote:

I'd be pretty darn happy if I fell off a roof and could still run sub-6:00 pace.

Alan Bennet wrote:

Just guessing here: Dave left out the part where he climbed back on the roof to button it up. Yawn - so routine. ;)

Kind of funny you would say that because yes I did do that! Had to get it papered because it was going to rain that night. Putting down shingles tomorrow...

Just got out of the pool. Did an hour run in the water. It's been a week and the tailbone is still very sore. Going to try 10x400 tomorrow and I just entered another 5K for this Saturday. If I had any sense at all I wouldn't do either of them...

Dave

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Week 162

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Greetings 50+er racers! Sorry I didn’t get around to responding to any posts on the thread (although I read them all pretty succinctly after they were posted); it’s been another busy week here in the Bluegrass. At any rate, thanks for the well wishes on my race, I can finally say that I’m starting to feel like a runner again, at least up to 10K. I have no confidence that I’ll be returning to longer races though; so I guess I’ll be striking that sub-3 Marathon off the bucket list of desired lifetime achievements (should have done it when I was younger.) At any rate, I am concerned that so many of you are a bit dinged up for one reason or other.

Spikez, I don’t know if I have any real insights into the dizziness. I’m going to relay this incident, but I certainly hope your situation has a much simpler (and non-invasive) explanation. Last November, a runner friend of mine in his mid-60s noticed a decrease in his performance that he couldn’t explain, and it included some light-headedness (he even fainted once during one of our group runs)…after doing some stress tests with cardiac imaging, doctors found that he had a couple of partial blockages around his heart. The doctors said that if he hadn’t been so fit and attuned to his body, they probably wouldn’t have uncovered the blockages until his condition was much worse. It was easily corrected and he’s almost back to normal 6 months after the surgery. I hope that this is irrelevant information in your case.

Dave! Glad you didn’t hurt yourself too bad. Falling of a roof is no laughing matter; I hope the tailbone gets better soon. Astounded that you still managed to race pretty well…Geez!

50x, some time back on this thread, I mentioned retro-running and how that really helped with some knee issues I was having back then. Rtype found some relief with the same prescription. You might consider incorporating 100 or so steps of backward running into your cool-down routine.

Likewise, AK-56 , Old Guy II, ALanB, sorry you guys are a bit dinged; seems like issues you’re all used to dealing with, so I hope they settle out soon. A lot of us seem to be running on less than all cylinders. But Gretehund…that’s one healthy week of running! Nice!

KP, I’m impressed with how quickly you’ve gotten yourself back into race shape. Sub-19 is nothing to sneeze at, especially given where you were just a few months back! Kudos!

OK, finally on to my week. Bolstered by my 10k race on the Fourth, I managed to churn out 37+ miles this week on six days of running. The log reads as such:

Sun: 7.6 w/2.6 accelerated from 7:20 -> 6:20

Mon: off

Tue: 4.2 easy, but sluggish + 3 walking

Wed: 5.0 w/8x(1 lap “on”, ½ lap “off”)

Thur: 5.8 easy (felt very hot & lethargic) + 3 walking

Fri: 4.8 easy-to-moderate (a couple sub-7 miles)

Sat: 10.2 mostly easy, but w/2.0@12:40 (6:20 pace) and 1.24@8:08 (6:33 pace)

Wednesday’s track workout was supposed to be 10x1 lap@5k pace (remember that our laps are 375 m), but I think I ran the 1 lappers a little fast (84s average), and the recoveries were a little short (57s average). Probably should have added 2-3s to each to complete the full set. Likewise, on Saturday, I wanted to run 2x2 miles at a hard pace, but this was all done by feel, so I didn’t really know what my pace was until after the fact. The first 2-miler was run 10-12s/mile too fast, which left me pretty tired and I didn’t recover well enough for the second one, and had to punt after 1-1/4 miles. Regardless, I’m very pleased with the week.Yes, abdominal stress remains, but as I approach one year since the original injury, it is becoming more and more manageable with each week.

OK, that’s my week. I trust that all if you that reported dings last week are making progress, and that the others have had productive weeks.

Cheers!