Thats awesome @reed, congratulations! Really well done, especially when you consider the circumstances. Great job!
Thats awesome @reed, congratulations! Really well done, especially when you consider the circumstances. Great job!
reed wrote:
Weather had been looking a bit cold (35-36F at the start, 40F at finish, no wind) but it just decided to warm up a bit to about 43F at the start. Basically perfect conditions, and still no wind.
Pacing plan is to run a lot of 5:42-5:44s. I'm confident that I'll be able to run a couple 5:40s at the end if I need a couple seconds back, but I don't want to be banking time. 74:40-75:10 is the target half split.
Wearing a new pair of Next%s that I got before my 10k last week. Will be my only time wearing them after the 10k, though I have trained in an Alphafly prototype and the original 4%.
I'm feeling like 2:29 seems pretty likely due to my fitness and pacing plan. I don't see myself falling off the pace before mile 20 and even if I run some 6:00s I should still be under 2:32
Time to nerd out! Maybe somebody can look back at this thread later and see how things ended up going. Copied my "prediction" post from last week.
The weather: ended up being perfect. About 43 degrees at the start and not exactly sure how much warmer it got but never higher than 50 F. I wore shorts, a singlet, arm sleeves, gloves, and a headband. Took off the armwarmers and headband at mile 13, and kept the gloves until mile 25. Never got cold or warm, was just perfect. It did get a little windy in the last 10k but I was able to tuck in behind my escort/pacer.
Pacing plan was to stay around 2:30:00 pace which is 5:43.5ish. I figured aiming for 5:42 would be safer to account for some GPS error. Stuck to that plan for about 13 miles and then we started hitting a slight downhill that I hadn't noticed was uphill before. Check my strava to see the elevation profile but it's just a couple seconds per mile off of flat. First 10 miles was 57:20 which was perfect. Half split was 75:00 (all splits based on certified mile splits, not my GPS watch). The pacing plan kind of went out the window in the second half because I was feeling so relaxed running under 5:40 pace. More on that later
Shoes ended up being awesome as expected. Did my 1mi warmup in some trainers, and wish I had warmed up in my Next%s just in case I had any issues with the lacing. Ended up getting it right but this could have been an issue. I did have the back of my heel rub despite wearing longer socks and applying Body Glide, but it didn't slow me down. I did have my second toe start to hurt toward the end but all-in-all I'm very happy with the Next%. Hard to compare with the Alphaflys I had because I used them for different types of runs and races. I think I'd buy the Adidas Adios Pro before trying the Alphafly after seeing those Valencia performances.
My time of 2:28:47 was right at the top end of what I thought was possible based on my workouts. I think I'm at the point where training at goal marathon pace is actually fairly difficult, and not as helpful. I didn't do any tempos at marathon pace really. I did pace a friend's half marathon at 1:15:50 with a negative split, but other than that I think the longest tempo I did at MP was maybe 4 miles. I ended up averaging 5:40 (5:39 if you assume I didn't run perfect tangents) and that pace would have felt too hard to run in training. I never did any regular tempo runs either. I guess it goes to show that traditional marathon training isn't the only approach that works. I basically just hopped in other people's workouts for the last few months, and only occasionally changed them to be more specific for me. I rarely did any hard workouts alone.
If I had to change anything about my race or my training, I really don't think I'd do anything. I know there are different circumstances in which I could have ran faster...(flatter course, more competition) but I think I did the best I could without risking too much. At mile 20ish I knew I needed to average 5:36 pace to break 2:29 but I just kept it around 5:38s because I knew I could make up the time in the last 2k, which is what ended up happening. I'm glad I waited because the last 2 miles had a couple of the steepest hills (very short climb up onto a levee) and they really sapped my momentum.
Other things you guys might be wondering:
I used alphaflys in training up to early september, so didn't have them for any of this specific training plan. I did use my original pair of 4%s for 40 miles worth of workouts which was well worth it because I knew I'd be buying a new pair. I tried not to use them too often. I did a ton of my long runs and longer workouts in the Nike Zoom Fly (a prototype I'm testing, pretty much the same as the ZF3). I'd recommend buying those or something like the Saucony Endorphin Speed for training miles, one or two days per week.
I ate ~4.5 gels during the race and drank maybe 12-14 oz of water. I had the gels at mile 5, 11, 16, 20, 24 but I didn't finish the last two. All were 100 kcal and all had caffeine. this is more than I ever ate during training but I have a background in ultramarathons and have never really any problem with nutrition.
@reed thanks for the great write-up. Really nice (unconventional?) approach!
My marathon build-up starts tomorrow! I've just had an easy week this week, only hard session was a 10k time trial (solo around freezing temp, 1℃) in 34:03. I think I need to get that down to at least 32:30 in order to be able to get my marathon to 2:30. I will start to do a bit more interval work in this build-up and see how that works for me.
Reviving this.
I'm hoping to run a fast marathon on Apr 25th. There's a local race here in it's second edition. Last year it had 30 people in it, this year it'll be around 100. (Entries are closed btw). The top three finished well under 2:30, and there should be a bunch of people attempting 2:30.
I'm hoping to run 2:30, even though my training indicates I'm not quite there yet. I feel fitter than ever, and have been stringing together 150+km weeks (95mi) with some really good quality sessions every week (longer threshold intervals on Tuesdays, fast long run on Wednesdays, shorter interval sessions on Fridays and a long run on Sundays). A few weeks ago I ran 37km with 2x30m at marathon pace (3:33/km or 5:43/km) which felt very controlled. This was in very cold conditions.
Last week I ran a solo HM tempo run in 1:13:30. The first third at marathon pace, the second third slightly below, and the final third was to be a bit faster still (3:25/km). The first 2/3 felt very controlled and I thought I speeding up would be easy. The final 7k I couldn't accelerate, though. This is a big PR for me, which both tells me that I'm not fit enough yet but also that my training under the new coach is working.
I think 2:30 is possible. Not with my current fitness, but let's see how training goes in the next few weeks.
@runningineurope looks like the training is going well! Hard work and a dash of luck and I'm sure you'll smash it on 25th April and go under.
I dropped back in as I'm also signed up to Marathon (different one though- Wrexham Elite) on 25th April. Running has been a struggle for me for last 3 months (had no motivation for any sessions but done alot of slow milage) but I think my motivation switch might have been flicked. Good run Saturday and then 11 miles at gold marathon pace last night has boosted the confidience. (Although I realise MP isn't quick but I've beening doing 8min plus/mile)
PB 2.34.54 so targets looking like
Bronze: New PB
Silver: 2.32
Gold: 2.29.59
reed wrote:
reed wrote:
Weather had been looking a bit cold (35-36F at the start, 40F at finish, no wind) but it just decided to warm up a bit to about 43F at the start. Basically perfect conditions, and still no wind.
Pacing plan is to run a lot of 5:42-5:44s. I'm confident that I'll be able to run a couple 5:40s at the end if I need a couple seconds back, but I don't want to be banking time. 74:40-75:10 is the target half split.
Wearing a new pair of Next%s that I got before my 10k last week. Will be my only time wearing them after the 10k, though I have trained in an Alphafly prototype and the original 4%.
I'm feeling like 2:29 seems pretty likely due to my fitness and pacing plan. I don't see myself falling off the pace before mile 20 and even if I run some 6:00s I should still be under 2:32
Time to nerd out! Maybe somebody can look back at this thread later and see how things ended up going. Copied my "prediction" post from last week.
The weather: ended up being perfect. About 43 degrees at the start and not exactly sure how much warmer it got but never higher than 50 F. I wore shorts, a singlet, arm sleeves, gloves, and a headband. Took off the armwarmers and headband at mile 13, and kept the gloves until mile 25. Never got cold or warm, was just perfect. It did get a little windy in the last 10k but I was able to tuck in behind my escort/pacer.
Pacing plan was to stay around 2:30:00 pace which is 5:43.5ish. I figured aiming for 5:42 would be safer to account for some GPS error. Stuck to that plan for about 13 miles and then we started hitting a slight downhill that I hadn't noticed was uphill before. Check my strava to see the elevation profile but it's just a couple seconds per mile off of flat. First 10 miles was 57:20 which was perfect. Half split was 75:00 (all splits based on certified mile splits, not my GPS watch). The pacing plan kind of went out the window in the second half because I was feeling so relaxed running under 5:40 pace. More on that later
Shoes ended up being awesome as expected. Did my 1mi warmup in some trainers, and wish I had warmed up in my Next%s just in case I had any issues with the lacing. Ended up getting it right but this could have been an issue. I did have the back of my heel rub despite wearing longer socks and applying Body Glide, but it didn't slow me down. I did have my second toe start to hurt toward the end but all-in-all I'm very happy with the Next%. Hard to compare with the Alphaflys I had because I used them for different types of runs and races. I think I'd buy the Adidas Adios Pro before trying the Alphafly after seeing those Valencia performances.
My time of 2:28:47 was right at the top end of what I thought was possible based on my workouts. I think I'm at the point where training at goal marathon pace is actually fairly difficult, and not as helpful. I didn't do any tempos at marathon pace really. I did pace a friend's half marathon at 1:15:50 with a negative split, but other than that I think the longest tempo I did at MP was maybe 4 miles. I ended up averaging 5:40 (5:39 if you assume I didn't run perfect tangents) and that pace would have felt too hard to run in training. I never did any regular tempo runs either. I guess it goes to show that traditional marathon training isn't the only approach that works. I basically just hopped in other people's workouts for the last few months, and only occasionally changed them to be more specific for me. I rarely did any hard workouts alone.
If I had to change anything about my race or my training, I really don't think I'd do anything. I know there are different circumstances in which I could have ran faster...(flatter course, more competition) but I think I did the best I could without risking too much. At mile 20ish I knew I needed to average 5:36 pace to break 2:29 but I just kept it around 5:38s because I knew I could make up the time in the last 2k, which is what ended up happening. I'm glad I waited because the last 2 miles had a couple of the steepest hills (very short climb up onto a levee) and they really sapped my momentum.
Other things you guys might be wondering:
I used alphaflys in training up to early september, so didn't have them for any of this specific training plan. I did use my original pair of 4%s for 40 miles worth of workouts which was well worth it because I knew I'd be buying a new pair. I tried not to use them too often. I did a ton of my long runs and longer workouts in the Nike Zoom Fly (a prototype I'm testing, pretty much the same as the ZF3). I'd recommend buying those or something like the Saucony Endorphin Speed for training miles, one or two days per week.
I ate ~4.5 gels during the race and drank maybe 12-14 oz of water. I had the gels at mile 5, 11, 16, 20, 24 but I didn't finish the last two. All were 100 kcal and all had caffeine. this is more than I ever ate during training but I have a background in ultramarathons and have never really any problem with nutrition.
Thanks Reed - interesting reading, and nice to follow your build up too! Although a bit hard for me, as a min/km guy, but I been looking at your training and calculating min/km to get a bit of reference:)!!
Congrats with the absolutely awesome time, hope this board and thread lives on.....
Ultra Bear wrote:
@runningineurope looks like the training is going well! Hard work and a dash of luck and I'm sure you'll smash it on 25th April and go under.
I dropped back in as I'm also signed up to Marathon (different one though- Wrexham Elite) on 25th April. Running has been a struggle for me for last 3 months (had no motivation for any sessions but done alot of slow milage) but I think my motivation switch might have been flicked. Good run Saturday and then 11 miles at gold marathon pace last night has boosted the confidience. (Although I realise MP isn't quick but I've beening doing 8min plus/mile)
PB 2.34.54 so targets looking like
Bronze: New PB
Silver: 2.32
Gold: 2.29.59
I think 11 miles at MP isn't an easy thing to do. I think Pfitzinger (not an easy program) has you do a HM at MP (with some miles before and after, just like you did).
I don't think, given your PBs and training, that 2:30 is unrealistic, if you use the next few weeks to do some faster stuff and "sharpen". If anything, at this moment in time, I'd think it's more realistic for you than for me (based on the fact that you already ran 2:34 and 1:11). Hopefully we get to run one together one time in the UK or Europe once this thing is over.
Been a while since I posted on this thread. I was hoping to run under 2:30 in November but I got injured and sadly 4 months later I am still struggling with a few aches and pains. However I did start a YouTube channel with daily vlogs of my training at the beginning of the year. I still have the goal of breaking 2:30 but right now I am just focused on getting back into regular training.
If you want to follow along here is a link to a recent video on my channel:
Here's my last week:
M 20k easy
T 10k easy + 3x3 @ 3:25/km
W 22k @ 3:58/km
T 18k easy
F 11k easy + hill reps (3x4x50s)
S 13k easy + 75min bike ride
S Long run with 13x(1k @ 3:30, 1k @ 4:10-ish).
Total 150km
I hadn't done a long run like that before, but it went really well.
Less than three weeks until my marathon (still unclear whether the race is happening, but I'm running anyway). Tapering has started.
My last few weeks were 168km (104mi), 140km, 178km (110mi), 141km (87mi) (had to take a day off and cross-train), 150km, 158km.
I ran a 1:13 HM a few months ago (not fast enough to run 2:30) and a bunch of nice workouts, including alternations (13x1km @ 3:33/km, 1k @ 4:00/km), 4x12min @ MP, and 41k @ 2:40 (3:55/km, felt like I could go on for ages). This weekend I'll run a 10k time trial.
I don't really know whether I'm ready to run 2:30. I believe I can do it on a good day. I think it kinda depends on the circumstances and whether I'm having a good day or not. One thing that'll definitely make it easier is not just the shoes, but the fact that I've been training on rolling loops (never quite flat) but will be running on a flat course (both the race and my alternative course are flat and smooth). I'm pretty sure I should be able to maintain the pace for 30k, but we'll see how it goes after that.
Anyone else still planning to run a fast spring marathon?
Another update (talking to myself here). 10k time trial went in 33 and a bit, completely solo.
Today was marathon day. I ran solo with a friend on a bike who carried my drinks, and went out in 1:15. Was very windy which made it hard (but there's always an excuse). Close to halfway I felt like I wouldn't be able to maintain it but decided to just keep going as fast as possible. Contemplated quitting but decided after 25k that it's just 17k remaining, might as well finish it. Pace got slower pretty much every km, finished in 2:36. Still really happy as it's a massive PB (previous PB is 2:45). I also really enjoyed racing with at least a single spectator.
This gives me a lot of motivation to keep on doing what I've been doing, push some more and get closer to the magical 2:30.
I think Ultra Bear also got a big PB today, a couple hundred miles west of me.
Congrats! It must be tough to time trial marathon.
I'm nowhere near your times but thanks for sharing your progress and motivating others.
@RunningInEurope still amazing running in those conditions and a PB.
Cheers for the shout out! I had some Achilles issues from 5 weeks out so the sharpening phase got halted not long after it'd begun although as tapering phase was super long I was rested (bar the Achilles). Reset my targets at gold 2.32/ silver 2.34.54 (pb) and bronze 2.39.59 (London championship Q) but was aware if something magical happened 2.32 could be ramped to amateur glory (2.29.59).
On the day nothing went wrong with Achilles and I don't think (bearing in mind my condition) anything could have gone better . Metronomic up to 7 miles, then kept pace and started shaving seconds off some miles to by mile 22 put me just on 2.30 pace. Heart rate was rising fast and just couldn't hold on 5.43 pace and slipped back towards nearly 6/mile to finish in 2.31.06.
Final result 2.31.06, 77 seconds away from sub amateur glory. I go again in 157 days at Chester (my home city) marathon.
Let's revieve this thread?
I recently ran a bit over 2.30 and now ready to take on the challenge for Amateurglory!!! Sub 2:30!
GO post your training to unite our powers in the quest.
I ran a 1:08:58 half in February of 2020 and was all set to run sub 2:30 prior to the pandemic. I went ahead and ran a 2:27:55 full time trial. My GPS said 26.3 miles, but I realize many people have their GPS say 26.6 when they run on a certified course. Even so, my effort was a sub 2:30. I ended up losing motivation to train at a high level and stopped running for 12 months shortly after the time trial. I started running again in June with the goal of going sub 2:30 in April 2022 in an official race. Last week I ran a 5 mile threshold at 5:26 pace. I’m slowly building my mileage. I started at 20 miles per week and this will be my fourth consecutive week at 60. I’ll eventually climb to 80. I doubt I’ll run more than 80 but I’m thinking about cross training on top of the 80 mpw.
Givetallugot wrote:
I ran a 1:08:58 half in February of 2020 and was all set to run sub 2:30 prior to the pandemic. I went ahead and ran a 2:27:55 full time trial. My GPS said 26.3 miles, but I realize many people have their GPS say 26.6 when they run on a certified course. Even so, my effort was a sub 2:30. I ended up losing motivation to train at a high level and stopped running for 12 months shortly after the time trial. I started running again in June with the goal of going sub 2:30 in April 2022 in an official race. Last week I ran a 5 mile threshold at 5:26 pace. I’m slowly building my mileage. I started at 20 miles per week and this will be my fourth consecutive week at 60. I’ll eventually climb to 80. I doubt I’ll run more than 80 but I’m thinking about cross training on top of the 80 mpw.
Good to see you back training man. That time trial was one of the best things I saw during that crazy 2020 year. You moved recently too right?
As for me, I ran a 69:38 out in Toledo this spring. Have boston in about a week and a half. Just came off of a 18 miler with 2 x 4 mile @ 5:29 avg. Had a bit of a snag a couple weeks ago but we may be rounding the corner at the right time.
Thanks, I’m happy about what I did but now I need to do it in an official race. I’ll get there.
Are you running a fall marathon? That half marathon time indicates you’re in sub 2:30 shape and that 2 x 4 miles is solid.
I'm running Boston in 11 days and shooting for 2:29 there after running 2:31 at the 2019 CIM. This will be my 8th Boston Marathon since 2010 and I ran 2:32 there in 2015 as well as 2:32 at 2018 CIM, at Chicago and Berlin in the last 5 years. I am M40-45 and normally a sub 230 would be Top 3-4 in AG but this year Boston has a stacked masters field so I'll be lucky to be Top 10-15 in AG! Summer training has gone really well in the hot South where I live. I'm ready to race and hopefully get my first 2:29. Good luck to all racing!
Great guys!
I am pushing towards a sub2:30 (when I am over my rest from marathon last wekeend) and might even have the motivation to take on a marathon more in 2021.
Any ideas on a good route marathon in 2021, earliest in November? (Should be in Europe).
Anyone that ever ran Barcelona marathon? It's 17th november so might work.. But I never heard anyone talk about the route and can see that the elites ran like 2:06 which might say that the route is not the fastest, but also might not say anything at all.
I'm up for reviving this thread. Good luck to all those shooting.
I'm rolling the dice on Sunday. PB is 2:31:06 set in April and I feel fitter than I ever have so think sub 2:30 is within my grasp. Course & conditions slightly harder than April though so got to make up more like 2.5 mins rather than 66 seconds.
Main change I've made since last block is more MP miles, and lost weight - roughly 6 pounds. If that's all fat and no muscle I'm sure I can dip under 2:30 mark.