Nice. AI highlights all the studies we’ve explained are poor quality, fraud, or been superseded by newer, higher quality studies.
Thanks for confirming with your AI slop that you guys have no quality evidence.
“I don’t like the results so…poor quality, fraud.”
Could you be more obvious.
Incorrect. The arguments have been laid out over the last few pages. The studies cited are poor design and small sample size. Better designed, larger studies show no effect. How do you explain that?
“I don’t like the results so…poor quality, fraud.”
Could you be more obvious.
Incorrect. The arguments have been laid out over the last few pages. The studies cited are poor design and small sample size. Better designed, larger studies show no effect. How do you explain that?
Confirmation bias at best, ghoulishness at worst.
But at least you got to show up Trump-at the expense of pregnant women and their children, of course. You got that going for you.
Incorrect. The arguments have been laid out over the last few pages. The studies cited are poor design and small sample size. Better designed, larger studies show no effect. How do you explain that?
Confirmation bias at best, ghoulishness at worst.
But at least you got to show up Trump-at the expense of pregnant women and their children, of course. You got that going for you.
You’re saying that believing newer, higher quality studies over poorer, older ones is “ghoulish?”
Interesting.
Do you have a substantive critique of the evidence?
Tylenol is made by many manufacturers, none of which are “Big Pharma.”
Tylenol is made by Johnson & Johnson, specifically through its subsidiary, McNeil Consumer Healthcare (now part of Kenvue, a spin-off from Johnson & Johnson focusing on consumer health products). Johnson and Johnson ain't Big Pharma?
Tylenol is made by many manufacturers, none of which are “Big Pharma.”
Tylenol is made by Johnson & Johnson, specifically through its subsidiary, McNeil Consumer Healthcare (now part of Kenvue, a spin-off from Johnson & Johnson focusing on consumer health products). Johnson and Johnson ain't Big Pharma?
Tylenol is generic and has been for decades. Or do you think RFKs babbling only applies to brand name Tylenol?
Tylenol is made by Johnson & Johnson, specifically through its subsidiary, McNeil Consumer Healthcare (now part of Kenvue, a spin-off from Johnson & Johnson focusing on consumer health products). Johnson and Johnson ain't Big Pharma?
Tylenol is generic and has been for decades. Or do you think RFKs babbling only applies to brand name Tylenol?
You deny tylenol is made by J+J? And nobody else?
Sorry but J+J owns the name.
Others make the same product but cannot be called tylenol.
Trump: We will have reduced drug prices by 1000%, 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400. Not 30 or 50%. Numbers the likes of which you’ve never even dreamed of before.
The sad part to me is - there are families out there desperate to understand autism. RFK and Trump trumpeted that they “found the cause” and it’s just data that’s been published for years. Nothing new or groundbreaking
The stuff they tout can’t possibly explain the 100x increase in cases they allege. (Did moms only start taking Tylenol in the 90s? No.)
They just lied to vulnerable pregnant moms for attention.
What happened was that expectant mothers quit smoking and drinking during pregnancy.
I read the first study. It's sad this this is considered one of the best studies we have on acetaminophen.
It collected prescription-issued data and on a small subset, self-reported data but only for the first 12 weeks of pregnancy and only a yes/no response! Major questions were left unanswered.
When did the acetaminophen group take it? Specifically, during what trimester? How many consecutive days did they take it? What dosages were they taking? How many times did they take it during pregnancy? Did the women reporting yes take one pill or one bottle a month? In the self-reported group, what did they take AFTER the first 12 weeks of pregnancy?
The study provides no answers to ANY of these questions! A far better approach would be to follow several thousand pregnancies over a few years and get answers to all of these questions.
Frustrated with this study, I did a few searches on my own and found this.
Prevalence of autism in US: ~3.0%
Prevalence of autism, Sweden: ~0.4%
Sweden consumes ~ 3x more acetaminophen than the US.
My takeaway (after wasting nearly a day on this) is that something is causing autism at higher rates in the US and it's *probably* not acetaminophen. I put the * * around probably because when acetaminophen metabolizes, a very small amount of NAPQI is created as a byproduct. The body uses glutathione to break down NAPQI, but that depletes the body's store of glutathione. Once glutathione is depleted, NAPQI can cause fatal liver damage. Also, low glutathione levels are present in Parkinson's, Alzheimers, and autism.
In short, chronic use of acetaminophen should be avoided by everyone. It has a very important use, and from what I've learned recently, it's the best drug we have to treat fever during pregnancy.
My point is that we shouldn't be taking it like candy.... AND we should keep looking for the cause of autism.
There must be something protective in the genetics or diet of Swedes... or something damaging in our diet and/or environment in the US to cause the US to have a 7x greater prevalence of autism than Sweden.
I don't really want to get yelled at or to yell at anyone else. That's just my opinion. I'm sharing what I found because I realize that most of you have jobs or are in school and don't have time to look all this up.
this is such a d@mned waste of time. autism is hereditary and polygenic, there are 100s of identified autism genes and the more you have the bigger your risk. there are studies showing twins and siblings having similar rates of autism.
if autism is sometimes environmental, that's rare. one rare explanation is being a premature birth. another is fetal exposure to mother taking VPA.
it's a fib to suggest aspirin "causes it" entirely. based on the limited environmental rate and inconsistent studies you are at best chasing another rare tertiary cause.
my brother fits ASD. i know he was preemie. that's not aspirin.
trump wants it to be aspirin instead of genetics because he can control the FDA by claiming it's caused by a drug. he can't control your genes or use genetics as a lever for political reasons.
"The national registry in Sweden includes all the official diagnoses for autism spectrum disorder, which more than doubled from 0.23 percent in 1993 to 0.5 percent in 2002. That rate is lower than the 1 percent prevalence found among the twins, but that may be because the national registry uses a conservative definition of the disorder. In another Swedish study last year that looked at all diagnoses for autism among teens living in Stockholm County, the autism diagnosis rate was about 2.5 percent."
does that 2.5% figure sound familiar to the 3% US number?
it's a definition game. "autism" used to strictly mean the noncommunicative kid banging his head on a table. "autism" is now a spectrum disorder that includes high functioning stuff like ADHD or aspberger's. the former (strict autism) is a fraction of 1% -- which you see reported for many places. the latter (ASD) is roughly 2.5-3% -- which you see reported for others.
No one should take medical advice from a 79-year old fat guy who's not a doctor. Or, from any of these anonymous posters on this thread. Including me. Do your own research. Talk to professionals you trust. And make your own decisions.
I don't trust the the FDA and I tend to look at the data (or lack of it) supporting their posiition, but their actual announcement on Tylenol seems reasonable as far as it goes. Here's the notice to doctors. I've bolded points for emphasis. Other than omitting that alternative therapies exist for managing pain, it's very similar to what I posted a few days ago.
. . . . . .
Notice to Physicians on the Use of Acetaminophen During Pregnancy
In recent years, evidence has accumulated suggesting that the use of acetaminophen by pregnant women may be associated with an increased risk of neurological conditions such as autism and ADHD in children. Some studies have described that the risk may be most pronounced when acetaminophen is taken chronically throughout pregnancy to childbirth. These concerns may be magnified by the fact that a very young child’s liver may still be developing and thus a child’s ability to metabolize the drug may be limited.
To be clear, while an association between acetaminophen and autism has been described in many studies, a causal relationship has not been established and there are contrary studies in the scientific literature. The association is an ongoing area of scientific debate and clinicians should be aware of the issue in their clinical decision-making, especially given that most short-term fevers in pregnant women and young children do not require medication.
In the spirit of patient safety and prudent medicine, clinicians should consider minimizing the use of acetaminophen during pregnancy for routine low-grade fevers. This consideration should also be balanced with the fact that acetaminophen is the safest over-the-counter alternative in pregnancy among all analgesics and antipyretics; aspirin and ibuprofen have well-documented adverse impacts on the fetus.
. . . . . .
NOTE: While this is reasonable as far as it goes, it does not stress that although existing studies might not be definitive, they did show a higher potential correlation with chronic use of Tylenol. Aches and pains are normal during pregnancy and many women are taking Tylenol like candy. Non-drug alternatives exist to manage pain and should be considered the first line of treatment for pain: yoga, massage, warm baths, less time on feet, etc.
I think still it fearmongers because the data linking autism to tylenol is not nearly as strong as they claim (and they dont even make that strong a claim here).
But, the recommendation is sound. Consult with your doctor before taking medications when pregnant.
Their claims still outstrip the evidence - we shouldn’t be highlighting tenuous links that haven’t stood up to more rigorous study - but the final recommendation isn’t too crazy.
wrong, if there is an actual safety issue, FDA handles it nationally. not 50 states. not doctor by doctor. there isn't one. ergo no FDA black box.
this is more reminiscent of ivermectin. "consult your doctor." you and your doctor cook up whatever you believe in.
you're in the hospital. you're feverish and pregnant. you refuse the aspirin and refer to this press release. since you can shop for a doctor to say what you believe, the idea of expert consensus dies. science is whatever you can get your local doc to say.
The author of this study was paid $750/hr to say what he said in court. Insane COI. Follow the money.
he created his own study he can then reference when he does expert work. this is like when your prof cites his or her own study in your class to back up some lecture item.
Do you have high quality data showing Tylenol is unsafe? If it existed, you wouldn’t be yammering like this because you could point to it.
I mean, Tylenol is on record stating they do not recommend pregnant women use any of their products...
Over the past decade alone, NIH, Harvard, John Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, etc have conducted and published studies specific to Tylenol use in pregnant women and the affects on the fetus. Including statements regarding associations(not causation) of autism in children.
We know that Tylenol should always be used in consultation with your family doctor or under medical advise. We know that there are studies showing severe organ damage leading to death caused by excessive Tylenol use. We know that marathon runners should not use Tylenol due to dangerous and possible life threating side effects.
Is everyone going so hard in the paint in defense of Tylenol use in pregnant women simply because of Trump? If so, that's pretty deranged and dangerous behavior.
Tylenol actually said "We recommend pregnant women do not take any over-the-counter medication, including acetaminophen, without talking to their doctor first.”
Acetaminophen (Tylenol) is one of the most commonly used medications during pregnancy, but the way it’s been studied is important to clarify: No intentional randomized controlled trials (RCTs) have been conducted in pregnant women for acetaminophen.
this is so manipulative. you're saying we should trick some mothers whether they are getting aspirin when they have a fever, so that you can relitigate if it's safe.