Then you can't use a Supercharger. I believe that the only way to pay will be through the app.
Paying is fine, but having to make a reservation to charge is cumbersome.
What are you talking about with "reservation"? Nobody has ever suggested you need a reservation to charge. Do you need a reservation to fill up with gas?
There are 3 reasons why you will probably never wait in line (or need a "reservation") for a charger:
1. Far fewer EV owners use DC fast charging compared to ICE owners using gas stations. 70-80% of EV charging happens at home, so this means you don't need to have as many charging ports as you do gas station stalls
2. Charging speeds for EVs are getting faster. The average EV took over an hour to charge from 5-80% five years ago - now, the average is closer to 30 minutes. This means that in one hour, a single stall could charge 2 vehicles compared to 1 five years ago. Within five more years, the average will drop to 15 minutes, allowing a single stall to charge up to 4 per hour.
3. DC fast chargers are going up at a fast rate, despite what you hear from the media. In the US from 2017 through 2021, the number of DC fast charging ports increased from 6310 to 21676 (248%). During this time, US EV sales grew 200% from ~200k to ~60k. This charging port number is set to continue to grow rapidly as dozens of charging companies expand their offerings.
Most social media videos you see of Tesla supercharging lines happened 3-4 years ago.
I thought you’d never ask. I’ll tell you what is actually going on, not what I’m thinking.
I assume that you are ignorant to the segments of customer of (technology) product adoption. I’ll give you a small primer and how it currently relates to Tesla.
There are 5 common segments - innovators, early adopters, early majority, late majority and laggards.
Currently, Tesla is selling primarily to the innovators segment and slowly moving into the early adopters. Innovators are characterized by being the first customers to buy/try a product. They are risk takers, have sort of connection with or affinity for the technology. They have a lower expectation for the product and understand the ultimate vision or purpose for the product even though the current product may not be delivering that vision. They tend to be wealthier and are willing to pay premiums for this early phase of adoption. These people often are members of social groups in which they interact with other innovators of the same product. They derive their social status from being in the innovator phase of a product. They take pride in being the first in their peer group to own a new product. This group is two stdev from mean adoption.
These innovators and those moving into the early adopter phase are more likely to have to deal with product issues and patience with them. As you move into the early and later majority phases, these owners are less likely to tolerate product issues since their expectation is different.
I was an innovator for the first smart phones. I didn’t care that mine dropped calls regularly, was buggy, and had poor integration. What little it did do well (or differently) and the fact that I owned one was all that mattered to me. It was novel and I understood what it could become, not what it was. If I were to own that same phone as a early majority, I would think it was a piece of crap.
Now with Tesla still being in the innovators phase and slowly moving into early adopters, people are more willing to put up with unreliability in their car. Even though Teslas are unreliable, poorly made and buggy, owners can still be highly satisfied with them. They have different expectations and reasons for ownership in this segment.
Again, it is not surprising that Tesla can have a poor reliability rating AND have high customer satisfaction. In fact, it is what you would expect at this point in the product adoption.
It is not because of some ludicrous conspiracy that Consumer Reports methodology is flawed or that everyone wants to put a hit out on Tesla. That’s just silly.
Furthermore, if Tesla wants to move into the latter stages of early adoption and into early majority, it will need to improve on the reliability issues, build quality and software quality. People in these larger segments will not tolerate these issues and Tesla will ultimately fail.
You’re welcome for the lesson. Any questions?
Yes, I know all about product adoption. Geoffrey Moore was on the board of a startup I used to work for. Crossing the Chasm was required reading.
I take it your argument is that Tesla will falter because it can't "Cross the Chasm". And soon, the early majority buyers will bring down Tesla's customer satisfaction rating.
Here is someone making the exact same "Crossing the Chasm" argument as you back in 2019. It didn't age well.
That’s a problem for the company [Tesla]. My argument boils down to this: technology sells to early adopters that love tech, but to sell to the early majority you need to sell a solutions to a problem. Early majority buyers buy for pragmatic reasons, not for inspirational reasons.
Since 2019, Tesla has crossed over. Millions of customers around the world have proven that Tesla's technology is now mainstream. EVs have won the day and Tesla dominates the EV market.
If you were right, Tesla would not be number one in customer satisfaction. Tesla's sales are just too massive to argue that their millions of owners are all early adopters. Tesla's cars are so good that even Early Majority customers are delighted.
In fact, in some markets like Norway, EVs make up 85% of the new cars. But Tesla still dominates. This is the land of Late Majority and even Laggards. And Norwegians still love their Teslas.
As for CR, I'm not claiming there is any conspiracy involved with Consumer Reports. I like Consumer Reports. But it appears that their methodology for predicted reliability is flawed.
Fat Hurts - you own a Chevy Bolt which has had terrible problems with fires. Will Chevy Bolts be able to charge at the charging stations? Will Tesla owners want to be charging next to a Chevy Bolt?
The batteries have been replaced in all the Bolts. It's not a problem any more.
Paying is fine, but having to make a reservation to charge is cumbersome.
What are you talking about with "reservation"? Nobody has ever suggested you need a reservation to charge. Do you need a reservation to fill up with gas?
There are 3 reasons why you will probably never wait in line (or need a "reservation") for a charger:
1. Far fewer EV owners use DC fast charging compared to ICE owners using gas stations. 70-80% of EV charging happens at home, so this means you don't need to have as many charging ports as you do gas station stalls
2. Charging speeds for EVs are getting faster. The average EV took over an hour to charge from 5-80% five years ago - now, the average is closer to 30 minutes. This means that in one hour, a single stall could charge 2 vehicles compared to 1 five years ago. Within five more years, the average will drop to 15 minutes, allowing a single stall to charge up to 4 per hour.
3. DC fast chargers are going up at a fast rate, despite what you hear from the media. In the US from 2017 through 2021, the number of DC fast charging ports increased from 6310 to 21676 (248%). During this time, US EV sales grew 200% from ~200k to ~60k. This charging port number is set to continue to grow rapidly as dozens of charging companies expand their offerings.
Most social media videos you see of Tesla supercharging lines happened 3-4 years ago.
I thought you’d never ask. I’ll tell you what is actually going on, not what I’m thinking.
I assume that you are ignorant to the segments of customer of (technology) product adoption. I’ll give you a small primer and how it currently relates to Tesla.
There are 5 common segments - innovators, early adopters, early majority, late majority and laggards.
Currently, Tesla is selling primarily to the innovators segment and slowly moving into the early adopters. Innovators are characterized by being the first customers to buy/try a product. They are risk takers, have sort of connection with or affinity for the technology. They have a lower expectation for the product and understand the ultimate vision or purpose for the product even though the current product may not be delivering that vision. They tend to be wealthier and are willing to pay premiums for this early phase of adoption. These people often are members of social groups in which they interact with other innovators of the same product. They derive their social status from being in the innovator phase of a product. They take pride in being the first in their peer group to own a new product. This group is two stdev from mean adoption.
These innovators and those moving into the early adopter phase are more likely to have to deal with product issues and patience with them. As you move into the early and later majority phases, these owners are less likely to tolerate product issues since their expectation is different.
I was an innovator for the first smart phones. I didn’t care that mine dropped calls regularly, was buggy, and had poor integration. What little it did do well (or differently) and the fact that I owned one was all that mattered to me. It was novel and I understood what it could become, not what it was. If I were to own that same phone as a early majority, I would think it was a piece of crap.
Now with Tesla still being in the innovators phase and slowly moving into early adopters, people are more willing to put up with unreliability in their car. Even though Teslas are unreliable, poorly made and buggy, owners can still be highly satisfied with them. They have different expectations and reasons for ownership in this segment.
Again, it is not surprising that Tesla can have a poor reliability rating AND have high customer satisfaction. In fact, it is what you would expect at this point in the product adoption.
It is not because of some ludicrous conspiracy that Consumer Reports methodology is flawed or that everyone wants to put a hit out on Tesla. That’s just silly.
Furthermore, if Tesla wants to move into the latter stages of early adoption and into early majority, it will need to improve on the reliability issues, build quality and software quality. People in these larger segments will not tolerate these issues and Tesla will ultimately fail.
You’re welcome for the lesson. Any questions?
Yes, I know all about product adoption. Geoffrey Moore was on the board of a startup I used to work for. Crossing the Chasm was required reading.
I take it your argument is that Tesla will falter because it can't "Cross the Chasm". And soon, the early majority buyers will bring down Tesla's customer satisfaction rating.
Here is someone making the exact same "Crossing the Chasm" argument as you back in 2019. It didn't age well.
That’s a problem for the company [Tesla]. My argument boils down to this: technology sells to early adopters that love tech, but to sell to the early majority you need to sell a solutions to a problem. Early majority buyers buy for pragmatic reasons, not for inspirational reasons.
Since 2019, Tesla has crossed over. Millions of customers around the world have proven that Tesla's technology is now mainstream. EVs have won the day and Tesla dominates the EV market.
If you were right, Tesla would not be number one in customer satisfaction. Tesla's sales are just too massive to argue that their millions of owners are all early adopters. Tesla's cars are so good that even Early Majority customers are delighted.
In fact, in some markets like Norway, EVs make up 85% of the new cars. But Tesla still dominates. This is the land of Late Majority and even Laggards. And Norwegians still love their Teslas.
As for CR, I'm not claiming there is any conspiracy involved with Consumer Reports. I like Consumer Reports. But it appears that their methodology for predicted reliability is flawed.
EVs are in the early adopters segment. Tesla’s are still primarily in the innovators and moving into early adopters. You are getting confused (as a lot of people do) by large numbers. Tesla, despite selling a large number of vehicles, is not even close to moving into the early majority segment.
I know it seems confusing to you that the explanation of why the objective numbers for Tesla’s very low reliability is not congruent with the subjective high customer satisfaction. Your first reaction, perhaps because you are an innovator, is to blame an external flaw in the system or some bias. If you understood customer buying segments, it would be clearer.
I don’t think Tesla will fail. However, if they fail to fix their build quality and software quality issues before EVs move into the early majority segment, they will.
Will they fix them in time? Who knows. They probably have a few years to improve.
Do you really think early majority will pay $12,000 for FSD that doesn’t work as intended? Or pay $20K extra for an Tesla when cheaper, better built alternatives are out there?. The Tesla bells and whistles don’t matter to them. If they did, they would be buying higher end, more technologically advanced Mercedes/AudiBMW’s instead of base Camrys, Corrollas or Civics.
Have you told Consumer Reports why their methodology is flawed?
Paying is fine, but having to make a reservation to charge is cumbersome.
What are you talking about with "reservation"? Nobody has ever suggested you need a reservation to charge. Do you need a reservation to fill up with gas?
There are 3 reasons why you will probably never wait in line (or need a "reservation") for a charger:
1. Far fewer EV owners use DC fast charging compared to ICE owners using gas stations. 70-80% of EV charging happens at home, so this means you don't need to have as many charging ports as you do gas station stalls
2. Charging speeds for EVs are getting faster. The average EV took over an hour to charge from 5-80% five years ago - now, the average is closer to 30 minutes. This means that in one hour, a single stall could charge 2 vehicles compared to 1 five years ago. Within five more years, the average will drop to 15 minutes, allowing a single stall to charge up to 4 per hour.
3. DC fast chargers are going up at a fast rate, despite what you hear from the media. In the US from 2017 through 2021, the number of DC fast charging ports increased from 6310 to 21676 (248%). During this time, US EV sales grew 200% from ~200k to ~60k. This charging port number is set to continue to grow rapidly as dozens of charging companies expand their offerings.
Most social media videos you see of Tesla supercharging lines happened 3-4 years ago.
Without a “reservation” far hurts re-routing scenario does not work. Tesla will not know how many vehicles are waiting in line at a charging station. It only knows how many are charging and if it’s nav software is routing someone to it. All others are unknown.
Yes, I know all about product adoption. Geoffrey Moore was on the board of a startup I used to work for. Crossing the Chasm was required reading.
I take it your argument is that Tesla will falter because it can't "Cross the Chasm". And soon, the early majority buyers will bring down Tesla's customer satisfaction rating.
Here is someone making the exact same "Crossing the Chasm" argument as you back in 2019. It didn't age well.
Since 2019, Tesla has crossed over. Millions of customers around the world have proven that Tesla's technology is now mainstream. EVs have won the day and Tesla dominates the EV market.
If you were right, Tesla would not be number one in customer satisfaction. Tesla's sales are just too massive to argue that their millions of owners are all early adopters. Tesla's cars are so good that even Early Majority customers are delighted.
In fact, in some markets like Norway, EVs make up 85% of the new cars. But Tesla still dominates. This is the land of Late Majority and even Laggards. And Norwegians still love their Teslas.
As for CR, I'm not claiming there is any conspiracy involved with Consumer Reports. I like Consumer Reports. But it appears that their methodology for predicted reliability is flawed.
EVs are in the early adopters segment. Tesla’s are still primarily in the innovators and moving into early adopters. You are getting confused (as a lot of people do) by large numbers. Tesla, despite selling a large number of vehicles, is not even close to moving into the early majority segment.
I know it seems confusing to you that the explanation of why the objective numbers for Tesla’s very low reliability is not congruent with the subjective high customer satisfaction. Your first reaction, perhaps because you are an innovator, is to blame an external flaw in the system or some bias. If you understood customer buying segments, it would be clearer.
I don’t think Tesla will fail. However, if they fail to fix their build quality and software quality issues before EVs move into the early majority segment, they will.
Will they fix them in time? Who knows. They probably have a few years to improve.
Do you really think early majority will pay $12,000 for FSD that doesn’t work as intended? Or pay $20K extra for an Tesla when cheaper, better built alternatives are out there?. The Tesla bells and whistles don’t matter to them. If they did, they would be buying higher end, more technologically advanced Mercedes/AudiBMW’s instead of base Camrys, Corrollas or Civics.
Have you told Consumer Reports why their methodology is flawed?
FSD is in the Innovators phase. Tesla cars are not.
There is no way you can say EVs are still in the Early Adopters phase in many markets like Norway. Norway is way past the Early Majority. But Tesla still dominates there.
People already pay $20K extra for a Tesla when cheaper alternatives are out there. But those cheap alternatives are a lot worse than a Tesla. So those who can afford it go with the Tesla.
Again, you are saying exactly what that other person said in 2019. But he was wrong and so are you.
You are clearly making the same mistakes as Frans Nauta. But at least Tesla was a lot less established back then and his arguments were a little more believable:
What are you talking about with "reservation"? Nobody has ever suggested you need a reservation to charge. Do you need a reservation to fill up with gas?
There are 3 reasons why you will probably never wait in line (or need a "reservation") for a charger:
1. Far fewer EV owners use DC fast charging compared to ICE owners using gas stations. 70-80% of EV charging happens at home, so this means you don't need to have as many charging ports as you do gas station stalls
2. Charging speeds for EVs are getting faster. The average EV took over an hour to charge from 5-80% five years ago - now, the average is closer to 30 minutes. This means that in one hour, a single stall could charge 2 vehicles compared to 1 five years ago. Within five more years, the average will drop to 15 minutes, allowing a single stall to charge up to 4 per hour.
3. DC fast chargers are going up at a fast rate, despite what you hear from the media. In the US from 2017 through 2021, the number of DC fast charging ports increased from 6310 to 21676 (248%). During this time, US EV sales grew 200% from ~200k to ~60k. This charging port number is set to continue to grow rapidly as dozens of charging companies expand their offerings.
Most social media videos you see of Tesla supercharging lines happened 3-4 years ago.
Without a “reservation” far hurts re-routing scenario does not work. Tesla will not know how many vehicles are waiting in line at a charging station. It only knows how many are charging and if it’s nav software is routing someone to it. All others are unknown.
It's not a reservation. You just enter your destination and Tesla does the routing for you. If you have done it this way, Tesla knows all about who is coming to which stations, when they will get there, and how long they will need to charge.
Just driving to a station is allowed, but it is the exception rather than the rule. So Tesla will still be able to manage its charging locations such that congestion will be very rare.
Tesla does know what they are doing. They will roll out charging for non-Tesla vehicles in such a way that it won't cause major issues.
What are you talking about with "reservation"? Nobody has ever suggested you need a reservation to charge. Do you need a reservation to fill up with gas?
There are 3 reasons why you will probably never wait in line (or need a "reservation") for a charger:
1. Far fewer EV owners use DC fast charging compared to ICE owners using gas stations. 70-80% of EV charging happens at home, so this means you don't need to have as many charging ports as you do gas station stalls
2. Charging speeds for EVs are getting faster. The average EV took over an hour to charge from 5-80% five years ago - now, the average is closer to 30 minutes. This means that in one hour, a single stall could charge 2 vehicles compared to 1 five years ago. Within five more years, the average will drop to 15 minutes, allowing a single stall to charge up to 4 per hour.
3. DC fast chargers are going up at a fast rate, despite what you hear from the media. In the US from 2017 through 2021, the number of DC fast charging ports increased from 6310 to 21676 (248%). During this time, US EV sales grew 200% from ~200k to ~60k. This charging port number is set to continue to grow rapidly as dozens of charging companies expand their offerings.
Most social media videos you see of Tesla supercharging lines happened 3-4 years ago.
Without a “reservation” far hurts re-routing scenario does not work. Tesla will not know how many vehicles are waiting in line at a charging station. It only knows how many are charging and if it’s nav software is routing someone to it. All others are unknown.
Not sure what "Fat hurts" said before but I can say Tesla doesn't do any complex "rerouting". When I'm on a road trip with my Model 3, it shows me the available charging stations and tells me how many are occupied. If I see that there are few or no charging stalls available, I would likely try finding another one. But In the 12 months I've had my car, I've never run into a situation where there was not an available charging stall. The most I've seen was 12/16 used. By the time I was done charging, it cleared to about 6-7 used.
I live in AZ though - If I went to southern CA where there are a lot more Teslas, there may be cases where there is a line. But such lines will be temporary - Tesla has been rapidly deploying new stations. They just opened a new 16 stall charger 10 minutes from my house (though I would never use this one as I charge at home).
Without a “reservation” far hurts re-routing scenario does not work. Tesla will not know how many vehicles are waiting in line at a charging station. It only knows how many are charging and if it’s nav software is routing someone to it. All others are unknown.
Not sure what "Fat hurts" said before but I can say Tesla doesn't do any complex "rerouting". When I'm on a road trip with my Model 3, it shows me the available charging stations and tells me how many are occupied. If I see that there are few or no charging stalls available, I would likely try finding another one. But In the 12 months I've had my car, I've never run into a situation where there was not an available charging stall. The most I've seen was 12/16 used. By the time I was done charging, it cleared to about 6-7 used.
I live in AZ though - If I went to southern CA where there are a lot more Teslas, there may be cases where there is a line. But such lines will be temporary - Tesla has been rapidly deploying new stations. They just opened a new 16 stall charger 10 minutes from my house (though I would never use this one as I charge at home).
It does do rerouting. If you are on a road trip and Tesla sees that your upcoming stop will be full it will automatically route you to a different exit for charging. I've had this happen a couple of times.
As I said earlier, I've only had one instance where I arrived at a location and all the stalls were full. But I was able to get a free stall in less than 5 minutes.
Yea, Pbst is complaining about something that is very unlikely to ever be an issue. Tesla is adding Supercharger locations at an amazing rate.
EVs are in the early adopters segment. Tesla’s are still primarily in the innovators and moving into early adopters. You are getting confused (as a lot of people do) by large numbers. Tesla, despite selling a large number of vehicles, is not even close to moving into the early majority segment.
I know it seems confusing to you that the explanation of why the objective numbers for Tesla’s very low reliability is not congruent with the subjective high customer satisfaction. Your first reaction, perhaps because you are an innovator, is to blame an external flaw in the system or some bias. If you understood customer buying segments, it would be clearer.
I don’t think Tesla will fail. However, if they fail to fix their build quality and software quality issues before EVs move into the early majority segment, they will.
Will they fix them in time? Who knows. They probably have a few years to improve.
Do you really think early majority will pay $12,000 for FSD that doesn’t work as intended? Or pay $20K extra for an Tesla when cheaper, better built alternatives are out there?. The Tesla bells and whistles don’t matter to them. If they did, they would be buying higher end, more technologically advanced Mercedes/AudiBMW’s instead of base Camrys, Corrollas or Civics.
Have you told Consumer Reports why their methodology is flawed?
FSD is in the Innovators phase. Tesla cars are not.
There is no way you can say EVs are still in the Early Adopters phase in many markets like Norway. Norway is way past the Early Majority. But Tesla still dominates there.
People already pay $20K extra for a Tesla when cheaper alternatives are out there. But those cheap alternatives are a lot worse than a Tesla. So those who can afford it go with the Tesla.
Again, you are saying exactly what that other person said in 2019. But he was wrong and so are you.
You are clearly making the same mistakes as Frans Nauta. But at least Tesla was a lot less established back then and his arguments were a little more believable:
Why are you talking about Norway now? A few days ago you dismissed everything mentioned about EVs in China and said only cars you can buy in the USA count. According to your logic, we can't buy Teslas from Norway in the US so it's irrelevant.
EVs are in the early adopters segment. Tesla’s are still primarily in the innovators and moving into early adopters. You are getting confused (as a lot of people do) by large numbers. Tesla, despite selling a large number of vehicles, is not even close to moving into the early majority segment.
I know it seems confusing to you that the explanation of why the objective numbers for Tesla’s very low reliability is not congruent with the subjective high customer satisfaction. Your first reaction, perhaps because you are an innovator, is to blame an external flaw in the system or some bias. If you understood customer buying segments, it would be clearer.
I don’t think Tesla will fail. However, if they fail to fix their build quality and software quality issues before EVs move into the early majority segment, they will.
Will they fix them in time? Who knows. They probably have a few years to improve.
Do you really think early majority will pay $12,000 for FSD that doesn’t work as intended? Or pay $20K extra for an Tesla when cheaper, better built alternatives are out there?. The Tesla bells and whistles don’t matter to them. If they did, they would be buying higher end, more technologically advanced Mercedes/AudiBMW’s instead of base Camrys, Corrollas or Civics.
Have you told Consumer Reports why their methodology is flawed?
FSD is in the Innovators phase. Tesla cars are not.
There is no way you can say EVs are still in the Early Adopters phase in many markets like Norway. Norway is way past the Early Majority. But Tesla still dominates there.
People already pay $20K extra for a Tesla when cheaper alternatives are out there. But those cheap alternatives are a lot worse than a Tesla. So those who can afford it go with the Tesla.
Again, you are saying exactly what that other person said in 2019. But he was wrong and so are you.
You are clearly making the same mistakes as Frans Nauta. But at least Tesla was a lot less established back then and his arguments were a little more believable:
EVs are in the early adopters segment. Tesla’s are still primarily in the innovators and moving into early adopters. You are getting confused (as a lot of people do) by large numbers. Tesla, despite selling a large number of vehicles, is not even close to moving into the early majority segment.
I know it seems confusing to you that the explanation of why the objective numbers for Tesla’s very low reliability is not congruent with the subjective high customer satisfaction. Your first reaction, perhaps because you are an innovator, is to blame an external flaw in the system or some bias. If you understood customer buying segments, it would be clearer.
I don’t think Tesla will fail. However, if they fail to fix their build quality and software quality issues before EVs move into the early majority segment, they will.
Will they fix them in time? Who knows. They probably have a few years to improve.
Do you really think early majority will pay $12,000 for FSD that doesn’t work as intended? Or pay $20K extra for an Tesla when cheaper, better built alternatives are out there?. The Tesla bells and whistles don’t matter to them. If they did, they would be buying higher end, more technologically advanced Mercedes/AudiBMW’s instead of base Camrys, Corrollas or Civics.
Have you told Consumer Reports why their methodology is flawed?
FSD is in the Innovators phase. Tesla cars are not.
There is no way you can say EVs are still in the Early Adopters phase in many markets like Norway. Norway is way past the Early Majority. But Tesla still dominates there.
People already pay $20K extra for a Tesla when cheaper alternatives are out there. But those cheap alternatives are a lot worse than a Tesla. So those who can afford it go with the Tesla.
Again, you are saying exactly what that other person said in 2019. But he was wrong and so are you.
You are clearly making the same mistakes as Frans Nauta. But at least Tesla was a lot less established back then and his arguments were a little more believable:
FSD is in the Innovators phase. Tesla cars are not.
There is no way you can say EVs are still in the Early Adopters phase in many markets like Norway. Norway is way past the Early Majority. But Tesla still dominates there.
People already pay $20K extra for a Tesla when cheaper alternatives are out there. But those cheap alternatives are a lot worse than a Tesla. So those who can afford it go with the Tesla.
Again, you are saying exactly what that other person said in 2019. But he was wrong and so are you.
You are clearly making the same mistakes as Frans Nauta. But at least Tesla was a lot less established back then and his arguments were a little more believable:
Why are you talking about Norway now? A few days ago you dismissed everything mentioned about EVs in China and said only cars you can buy in the USA count. According to your logic, we can't buy Teslas from Norway in the US so it's irrelevant.
FSD is in the Innovators phase. Tesla cars are not.
There is no way you can say EVs are still in the Early Adopters phase in many markets like Norway. Norway is way past the Early Majority. But Tesla still dominates there.
People already pay $20K extra for a Tesla when cheaper alternatives are out there. But those cheap alternatives are a lot worse than a Tesla. So those who can afford it go with the Tesla.
Again, you are saying exactly what that other person said in 2019. But he was wrong and so are you.
You are clearly making the same mistakes as Frans Nauta. But at least Tesla was a lot less established back then and his arguments were a little more believable:
Not sure what "Fat hurts" said before but I can say Tesla doesn't do any complex "rerouting". When I'm on a road trip with my Model 3, it shows me the available charging stations and tells me how many are occupied. If I see that there are few or no charging stalls available, I would likely try finding another one. But In the 12 months I've had my car, I've never run into a situation where there was not an available charging stall. The most I've seen was 12/16 used. By the time I was done charging, it cleared to about 6-7 used.
I live in AZ though - If I went to southern CA where there are a lot more Teslas, there may be cases where there is a line. But such lines will be temporary - Tesla has been rapidly deploying new stations. They just opened a new 16 stall charger 10 minutes from my house (though I would never use this one as I charge at home).
It does do rerouting. If you are on a road trip and Tesla sees that your upcoming stop will be full it will automatically route you to a different exit for charging. I've had this happen a couple of times.
As I said earlier, I've only had one instance where I arrived at a location and all the stalls were full. But I was able to get a free stall in less than 5 minutes.
Yea, Pbst is complaining about something that is very unlikely to ever be an issue. Tesla is adding Supercharger locations at an amazing rate.
Thank you for finally admitting I was right and it can happen (it is happening in Europe now). Tesla does not know how many vehicles are waiting for chargers.
If their biggest problem is cars lined up 20 deep at every available Tesla Supercharger station, as you've been arguing, the revenue from that alone should keep them afloat.
It does do rerouting. If you are on a road trip and Tesla sees that your upcoming stop will be full it will automatically route you to a different exit for charging. I've had this happen a couple of times.
As I said earlier, I've only had one instance where I arrived at a location and all the stalls were full. But I was able to get a free stall in less than 5 minutes.
Yea, Pbst is complaining about something that is very unlikely to ever be an issue. Tesla is adding Supercharger locations at an amazing rate.
Thank you for finally admitting I was right and it can happen (it is happening in Europe now). Tesla does not know how many vehicles are waiting for chargers.
If their biggest problem is cars lined up 20 deep at every available Tesla Supercharger station, as you've been arguing, the revenue from that alone should keep them afloat.
I don't know if you were being serious about "keep them afloat", but it's clear that many of you (especially Pbst) don't understand what is happening.
Tesla is not an early stage company any more. It is the 6th largest company in the world by market cap. It is worth more than Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, GM, Ford, and Honda --- combined.
Tesla's cars are no longer being sold to just the early adopters. It is the top luxury car in the US. It's not just the top EV. It's the top luxury car of any type.
The profit margins per unit sold is around 25% to 30%. This is unheard of for a high volume vehicle. And Tesla's EV manufacturing prowess is so far ahead of everyone else, that margin is projected to grow into the 40s.
So yes, Tesla will make some healthy revenue when they open up their charging network to non-Teslas. But to the company overall, charging revenue is going to be pocket change.
