Probably the most disappointing thing agip has ever said. A thread doesn’t have “juice” because massive, massive DBs like those two aren’t posting. I guess it (disappointingly) reinforces my long-held suspicion that the non-morans would actually rather pointlessly “argue” with the morans than discuss things amongst themselves. Weird.
Would you really prefer it if ALL the conservatives left this thread and you had a thread where everyone was preaching to the choir ... kind of like a David Koresh/Kim Jun Un type thing where Agip or Flagpole or Hooma or Real Obvi (Hooma in disguise) would say how terrible Trump is or how wonderful Biden or Kamala are - and everyone in unison would rejoice and shout "Halleluhah?"
Yes, over and over again a million times kid yourself that when we say “moran” we mean “principled conservatives.”
We’re against Trumper liars and idiots. A GREAT deal of the time, policy has nothing to do with it. And for an ACTUAL conservative like me, it’s damn near 100%.
Gaslighting. trump was literally booed when he tried to brag about the vaccines. Rs are vastly less likely to be vaccinated. You know all this. I won’t insult you by telling you what you already know.
So your point is Trump is pro-vaccine? That's my point. What's the issue here?
Cute. Lame. You know damn well what the “issue” was. A great number of R politicians (Trump included, depending on the day), cast unjustified suspicion on the vaccines (and masks, and reasonable pandemic mitigations, and doctors, and scientists, and…). And it had a very clear effect. Far less R vaccination, far more post-vaccine R death.
Florida was the only state with reasonable pandemic measures.
Even if arguably true (and that’s highly doubtful given it’s Trump imitator Gov.), that would in no way excuse or mitigate the influential behavior of a great number of R politicians and Trumper media sources throughout the country.
this is an astonishingly naive and misleading statement. 'loper would have us believe that the only thing that matters is law/policy and not what GOP officials said or did. Which is absurd.
GOP members derided vaccines, discouraged vaccines, fought vaccine mandates, mocked mask wearers and even now apparently want to imprison Fauci. You know all this. The result was tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of excess deaths. And we're just getting started - now Republicans we refusing to get even basic vaccines, to prove how 'conservative' they are. Many more deaths are coming from GOP anti-vax positions.
Don't let your morbid wishful thinking get in the way of reality.
58% of COVID deaths in August were vaccinated people.
The remainder of the year was probably similar.
You, and to an extent the article you link to, are misrepresenting the data and you specifically are falling victim to the base rate fallacy. This recent Scientific American article does a nice job explain the proper way to compare COVID death rate in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated populations....
The death rate among unvaccinated people is still far higher than that among the vaccinated even though vaccinated people now make up a significant proportion of deaths
The death rate in fully boosted individuals per 100,000 people is 0.1, among vaccinated but not boosted is 0.22 per 100,000 people, and for the unvaccinated it's 1.71 per 100,000 people. Stated another way, you are approximately 17 times more likely to die of COVID if you are unvaccinated when compared to vaccinated individuals. The data in this article clearly shows vaccines work to decrease hospitalizations and death--which is what they were designed to do. They do not completely eliminate all risk of severe illness or death--which no one who speaks from a position in authority has said they do--but, which, unfortunately simplistic thinkers use as a straw man position to try and suggest the vaccines "don't work". That is truly an ignorant, poorly thought out argument anti-vaxxers make frequently to the determinant of many.
This succinct response to a very flawed Lancet study does a nice job explaining the base rate fallacy as well...
Second, it is simply a bad faith argument to state the GOP has not directly caused vaccine hesitancy among its base. We've all heard the statements, read the comments, and seen the actions of prominent GOP Politicians, pundits, and activists re: vaccines for several years now. The data also clearly shows the effects of GOP / right wing misinformation and disinformation on this topic (Ron Johnson's (R-WI) repeated public statements in this regard are widely available in the media from both right and left leaning sources--just google the topic.
Here is a Yale study showing the emergence of the mortality divide by political party that has become quite apparent.
A team of Yale researchers has found that Republican voters in two U.S. states had more excess deaths than Democratic voters after vaccines for COVID-19 became
The GOP and their rhetoric around vaccines has clearly contributed to excess death among their own followers--truly sad, disturbing, and not defensible based on facts and reality.
Predictit is down to a 60% chance of mccarthy becoming speaker. If the GOP screws this up we'll all see how unfit to govern they are. But the problem is that there are a dozen or so GOP Reps who actively want to burn it all down. They don't believe in the Fed gummint and they want it to fail. So what incentive is there for them to cave?
Indeed, this x2. What kind of kid could grow up wanting to be like McCarthy? Only the kind of kid who would harm the republic. McCarthy has sold his soul many times over and his colleagues know it. Damaged goods. Although he’d still be better than scalise, who likes to compare himself to David Duke.
////:
The late Michael Gerson wrote in May about Kevin McCarthy as "a prime example of how politics can soil the soul." "Who would aspire, as a young person, to McCarthy’s brand of politics? Only those who will also be dangers to the republic."
Don't let your morbid wishful thinking get in the way of reality.
58% of COVID deaths in August were vaccinated people.
The remainder of the year was probably similar.
You, and to an extent the article you link to, are misrepresenting the data and you specifically are falling victim to the base rate fallacy...
The death rate in fully boosted individuals per 100,000 people is 0.1, among vaccinated but not boosted is 0.22 per 100,000 people, and for the unvaccinated it's 1.71 per 100,000 people. Stated another way, you are approximately 17 times more likely to die of COVID if you are unvaccinated when compared to vaccinated individuals...
The GOP and their rhetoric around vaccines has clearly contributed to excess death among their own followers--truly sad, disturbing, and not defensible based on facts and reality.
It truly is deeply disturbing. The GOP has effectively been killing their own supporters. It is bad enough to lead your average Joe toward his untimely demise. But to do that specifically to the folks who voted for you . . . It's just unfathomable.
Florida was the only state with reasonable pandemic measures.
Even if arguably true (and that’s highly doubtful given it’s Trump imitator Gov.), that would in no way excuse or mitigate the influential behavior of a great number of R politicians and Trumper media sources throughout the country.
Florida had a lower percentage of excess deaths than California without the economic harm that California self-inflicted. The inflation everyone in the country has experienced over the past year or more is in large part due to the catastrophic American Rescue Plan that aimed to salvage the economies of California and New York after their prolonged shutdowns decimated their economies.
Even if arguably true (and that’s highly doubtful given it’s Trump imitator Gov.), that would in no way excuse or mitigate the influential behavior of a great number of R politicians and Trumper media sources throughout the country.
Florida had a lower percentage of excess deaths than California without the economic harm that California self-inflicted. The inflation everyone in the country has experienced over the past year or more is in large part due to the catastrophic American Rescue Plan that aimed to salvage the economies of California and New York after their prolonged shutdowns decimated their economies.
Keep in mind Florida cheats on its stats - it only counts Florida residents who die in Florida. And obviously there are many many elderly snowbirds who died in Florida but aren’t counted because they are Michigan or Ohio residents But they should have been counted.
Even if arguably true (and that’s highly doubtful given it’s Trump imitator Gov.), that would in no way excuse or mitigate the influential behavior of a great number of R politicians and Trumper media sources throughout the country.
Florida had a lower percentage of excess deaths than California without the economic harm that California self-inflicted. The inflation everyone in the country has experienced over the past year or more is in large part due to the catastrophic American Rescue Plan that aimed to salvage the economies of California and New York after their prolonged shutdowns decimated their economies.
“Republican counties across the United States have been shown to have more covid deaths”
”Yeah, but what about one Republican state vs one Democrat state? What then hmmm???”
Florida had a lower percentage of excess deaths than California without the economic harm that California self-inflicted. The inflation everyone in the country has experienced over the past year or more is in large part due to the catastrophic American Rescue Plan that aimed to salvage the economies of California and New York after their prolonged shutdowns decimated their economies.
Keep in mind Florida cheats on its stats - it only counts Florida residents who die in Florida. And obviously there are many many elderly snowbirds who died in Florida but aren’t counted because they are Michigan or Ohio residents But they should have been counted.
The numbers were based upon CDC excess death counts. Harder to lie on those. In terms of cheating, the states that cheated the most on their stats were (between Q1 2020 and Q3 2022):
Hawaii - tallied 1,665 COVID deaths, CDC deaths above normal = 3,472
Maine - tallied 2,744 COVID deaths, CDC deaths above normal = 5,705
Virginia - tallied 21,073 COVID deaths, CDC deaths above normal = 41,560
There were a couple states that actually counted more COVID deaths than excess deaths (Massachusetts and Rhode Island). In terms of percentage of excess deaths, the highest rates were in Arizona and New Mexico.
have to say there are some good things happening in the US body politic.
having an empty suit spineless politician be (probably) rejected as speaker is a good thing. Eveyrone knows he's a terrible leader who is a shape shifter. Maybe the fate of kevin will be a warning to others.
the electoral count reform passed
trump is falling by the wayside, maybe.
there hasn't been much of any political violence since the attempted assassination of Pelosi.
america is stabilizing? Maybe?
Of course kevin could still win and I still don't see how trump loses a primary if he is a free man. But some green shoots.
Predictit is down to a 60% chance of mccarthy becoming speaker. If the GOP screws this up we'll all see how unfit to govern they are. But the problem is that there are a dozen or so GOP Reps who actively want to burn it all down. They don't believe in the Fed gummint and they want it to fail. So what incentive is there for them to cave?
Trump has turned the GOP into a clown show. That's what you moron Republicans get for backing that Orange Menace. HILARIOUS that Jeffries got MORE votes for Speaker than McCarthy. The Republican Party is a mess.
A Republican arrested after winning his race for a seat in the Georgia House has decided to step aside instead of facing a possible suspension as soon as he was sworn into office later this month.
Rampey, 67, was arrested last month after investigators said he stole prescription narcotics at the retirement complex he manages.
Predictit is down to a 60% chance of mccarthy becoming speaker. If the GOP screws this up we'll all see how unfit to govern they are. But the problem is that there are a dozen or so GOP Reps who actively want to burn it all down. They don't believe in the Fed gummint and they want it to fail. So what incentive is there for them to cave?
Trump has turned the GOP into a clown show. That's what you moron Republicans get for backing that Orange Menace. HILARIOUS that Jeffries got MORE votes for Speaker than McCarthy. The Republican Party is a mess.
Down votes on this? I will assume that those who did that are just SAD that that's the case, because there is NO DENYING that The Republican Party is in shambles. Oh, and those of you who are SAD about it are EITHER idiots, OR you need to move on from that mess of a party.
Down votes on this? I will assume that those who did that are just SAD that that's the case, because there is NO DENYING that The Republican Party is in shambles. Oh, and those of you who are SAD about it are EITHER idiots, OR you need to move on from that mess of a party.
To be fair, there is plenty of garbage in the Democratic party as well. A lot of people probably don't want to be associated with either party due to the extremists on both ends.
To be fair, there is plenty of garbage in the Democratic party as well. A lot of people probably don't want to be associated with either party due to the extremists on both ends.
Said in various ways by lots of people a million times before, but....
When one side (among many other truly extreme/bad things) supports a president/president wanna-be who absolutely wants to be an autocrat, it's ACTUALLY dangerous to consider that essentially the same as very liberal policies one might not like.
NOTHING AOC or any other D wants is anything close to saying, "If I don't win an election, I didn't really lose the election." That's the end of our country. Bathrooms, and taxes, and more gun control, and PC crap, and YES, even porous borders, are not.
And when the people who pay some attention to the news dishonestly/inaccurately say this all the time, lots more who stay mostly tuned out hear it and believe it. And they might end up voting for the party that is currently for election theft. That's actual existential danger to the country. Not here today, gone tomorrow, policies you don't like.
All bad things aren't equal.
Which MIGHT be where my name came from on this thread a long time ago. Imagine that.
To be fair, there is plenty of garbage in the Democratic party as well. A lot of people probably don't want to be associated with either party due to the extremists on both ends.
Said in various ways by lots of people a million times before, but....
When one side (among many other truly extreme/bad things) supports a president/president wanna-be who absolutely wants to be an autocrat, it's ACTUALLY dangerous to consider that essentially the same as very liberal policies one might not like.
NOTHING AOC or any other D wants is anything close to saying, "If I don't win an election, I didn't really lose the election." That's the end of our country. Bathrooms, and taxes, and more gun control, and PC crap, and YES, even porous borders, are not.
And when the people who pay some attention to the news dishonestly/inaccurately say this all the time, lots more who stay mostly tuned out hear it and believe it. And they might end up voting for the party that is currently for election theft. That's actual existential danger to the country. Not here today, gone tomorrow, policies you don't like.
All bad things aren't equal.
Which MIGHT be where my name came from on this thread a long time ago. Imagine that.
I agree with both of you - the Dem party turns off a lot of people with its obsessions with race and gender, for example.
But I agree that the GOP is an actual danger to the Republic and the Dems are clearly not. Many of these Rs voting for Speaker voted in 2021 to overturn a free and fair election. That's how they rolled and they will roll that way again before too long. Not fans of democracy, the GOP. They'd rather live in an autocracy if it meant the Dems cried more.
Welp, Uncle Joe's a-movin' kinda slow...but (oh so) gradually upward in approval rating, to 43.x%. His main progress remains his downward trend in unpopularity--now approaching 50%.
