Any random guy posting their experience with this method is a better contribution to this thread than anything you've ever written here. Even that one guy who keeps making sirpoopy posts has completely and unequivocally outcontributed you. Let that sink in.
What an absolute clown you are lexel. Coggan buried you by the way, just to set the record straight. He doesn't put up with any sh*t online and quite quickly he knew you were easy prey and a total fraud. Also H2F has you in his pocket. Both absolutely have slaughtered you and your lack of knowledge multiple times. I'm sure both are long gone but would chuckle at the thought of you finding them interesting when in fact, they put you to bed.
If you don't think this thread has been worthwhile for the probably hundreds of people at this point, who are making PBs or having a second wind in their running careers, well suck around to you as well. You obviously can't read a room or see last your own ego.
If you didn't spend so long being an arrogant sociopath with an ego even twice the size of JS on a niche internet forum, you might actually break 20 mins one day.
Lexel with the dirty delete, when getting owned yet again. Dude should just delete his account and come back fresh.
On another note, I have noticed in the Strava group as a lot of guys have put a really big block into this type of training now throughout the spring and summer, PBs are starting to drop fast. Noticed 5-6 this weekend already alone. I'm a bit of a lurker here and in Strava but really enjoy seeing everyone sticking at this and the progress guys and gals of hugely varying standards are having.
I do now lactate guided sub CV/CP (critical velocity/critical power) reps, trying to be in a certain lactate range after the last rep. I increase the intensity of the reps for the next sessions only If lactate was below a certain value. Similar to Marius Bakken, but i measure lactate only at the end of the last rep. As a fast twitcher i managed now to do 3 quality sessions per week, with a trick. Total rep volume is always 30 minutes, which seems to work well.
Some things are worth to be tried out.
Some questions to be answered for me are:
- do i stagnate ? (so far not)
- when i do stagnate?
- is there an optimum rep intensity?
- is there an optimum rep duration? (that could be, because it influences the number of recovery intervals)
Actually the most reasonable training insights Lexel has posted in 170+ pages
Lexel. You are a coward. You tried to take a dump on Coggan and H2F and then delete your post. Now you try and claim you are being silenced. You are not only a fraud but a coward and a liar. Just leave or change to a new account. Nobody will ever take your seriously on LRC ever again after your pathetic attempts to make this thread all about you.
It appears that sirpoc is going beyond the initial recommendations (beyond 30 min of sub-LT work per session) by increasing volume to 4 x 3K and 7 x 1600.
Also, the long run is creeping up towards 1 hr 45 min duration
It appears that sirpoc is going beyond the initial recommendations (beyond 30 min of sub-LT work per session) by increasing volume to 4 x 3K and 7 x 1600.
Also, the long run is creeping up towards 1 hr 45 min duration
The easy runs have stayed at 1 hr
Makes a lot of sense. This is probably an extra ~5-6 min per session given that he has improved his paces over time – so, very incremental and a reasonable progression for someone who has gotten fitter and is committed to doing more threshold work in one session (without turning to double threshold, which is not the point of this thread). Very interesting kicking up the long run duration as well, seems like he is able to handle the extra load well based on his recent PR!
Want to hear if anyone else has started slightly modifying this schedule with some success (and in keeping with the core principles). For example, I still do three 30-36min threshold sessions (Tues/Thurs/Sun) but fit one session into my 90min long run so that I can do a light hill sprint session (~2 sets, 4-5 reps) on Saturday that over time doesn't leave me too sore/tired for threshold the following day. Dropped my mile time by 10 seconds recently doing this, and has helped me progress the intensity of my threshold effort (same effort, just happens to be a bit faster) too it seems. 5k pace feels much easier on race day (also PR'd by 20 seconds). Having a great time so far, feeling strong, quick and snappy, not remotely burnt out. Thanks parkerjohn for keeping the productive convo going.
It appears that sirpoc is going beyond the initial recommendations (beyond 30 min of sub-LT work per session) by increasing volume to 4 x 3K and 7 x 1600.
Also, the long run is creeping up towards 1 hr 45 min duration
The easy runs have stayed at 1 hr
Makes a lot of sense. This is probably an extra ~5-6 min per session given that he has improved his paces over time – so, very incremental and a reasonable progression for someone who has gotten fitter and is committed to doing more threshold work in one session (without turning to double threshold, which is not the point of this thread). Very interesting kicking up the long run duration as well, seems like he is able to handle the extra load well based on his recent PR!
Want to hear if anyone else has started slightly modifying this schedule with some success (and in keeping with the core principles). For example, I still do three 30-36min threshold sessions (Tues/Thurs/Sun) but fit one session into my 90min long run so that I can do a light hill sprint session (~2 sets, 4-5 reps) on Saturday that over time doesn't leave me too sore/tired for threshold the following day. Dropped my mile time by 10 seconds recently doing this, and has helped me progress the intensity of my threshold effort (same effort, just happens to be a bit faster) too it seems. 5k pace feels much easier on race day (also PR'd by 20 seconds). Having a great time so far, feeling strong, quick and snappy, not remotely burnt out. Thanks parkerjohn for keeping the productive convo going.
It appears that sirpoc is going beyond the initial recommendations (beyond 30 min of sub-LT work per session) by increasing volume to 4 x 3K and 7 x 1600.
Also, the long run is creeping up towards 1 hr 45 min duration
The easy runs have stayed at 1 hr
If you think about when sirpoc started, doing 6*1.6km was probably closer to 35 mins. Now, same workout is 30 mins. So it makes sense to increase. It's probably only a 2-3 min increase over a session. Easy run going slowly from 50 to 60. Increasing the long run gradually. All adding loads smartly and slowly? Probably why he can still improve mapping and planning this out.
It appears that sirpoc is going beyond the initial recommendations (beyond 30 min of sub-LT work per session) by increasing volume to 4 x 3K and 7 x 1600.
Also, the long run is creeping up towards 1 hr 45 min duration
The easy runs have stayed at 1 hr
He never was doing sub threshold
Earlier in the thread he said he was doing km repeat at 6:00 when running 17:30. That's not sub threshold that's THRESHOLD
It appears that sirpoc is going beyond the initial recommendations (beyond 30 min of sub-LT work per session) by increasing volume to 4 x 3K and 7 x 1600.
Also, the long run is creeping up towards 1 hr 45 min duration
The easy runs have stayed at 1 hr
He never was doing sub threshold
Earlier in the thread he said he was doing km repeat at 6:00 when running 17:30. That's not sub threshold that's THRESHOLD
Reminder: threshold is a state not a pace, so it entirely depends on how long each rep was. 1k reps = likely that lactate stayed below LT2.
I do wonder, if trolls are here to troll or just they don't understand actually what threshold is?
Either way, I guess from his recent racing sirpoc LTHR is likely in the 177-179 range? Recent HM as a guide. He sometimes touches this maybe by the end of the last rep for a minute or two, but certainly not always
Look look at his HR in 10*1k WAY above threshold classic 'pace' at the weekend , but I think HR topped out around 175 by rep 10. It's all about pace versus duration. I think that's what he has worked out as almost a cheat code to keep a remarkable run of training just keeping going over and over again. This seems to have been adapted for himself, combining a lot of different methods through trial and error.
If you take his Vdot threshold, that's around 3:19-3:20. Yet he can easily complete 10*1k in 3:12-13 average without probably ever going over threshold. It would be nice to hear from him with regards as to how easy this felt or how many more reps he could do on top of the 10? IMO this would be a good clue as to how hard this really is for him.
What stuck me was the explanation I think he wrote on Strava. This is MORE aggressive than doubles, but still on the cautious side. You are trying to get as much as you can out on just a single session as opposed to doubles, but also making sure you don't get burnt, playing with fire and that you can still run and complete a workout again in 48 hours. It's a highwire act that requires real discipline and understanding of what the bigger picture is.
I imagineas you get way more experienced training like this, you can get closer to looking over the edge into the abyss but never falling into that slope of no return. Whereas starting out, it makes sense to just very much stay on the cautious side until you get a grip and handle on things.
I was incredibly sceptical myself of this approach and thread earlier in the year but having seen genuine actual improvement , especially in the 5k-HM range for so many people, it's become hard to ignore to be honest. If you aren't considering this at some point as an older time crunched runner, you are probably on the wrong path. Does it work for everyone? Clearly not. As a blanket approach across the board? I'm not sure there is likely something that would suit or benefit a larger percentage of runners out there at the moment.
It appears that sirpoc is going beyond the initial recommendations (beyond 30 min of sub-LT work per session) by increasing volume to 4 x 3K and 7 x 1600.
Also, the long run is creeping up towards 1 hr 45 min duration
The easy runs have stayed at 1 hr
Maybe he train for marathon? I don't care if troll get me, it good to see sirpoc do well. I hope he does good marathon maybe. Whatever anyone say this thread provide amazing inspire to me and my old body that life in me yet.
I just think maybe extend long run like that is build to marathon prep on my experience.
I do wonder, if trolls are here to troll or just they don't understand actually what threshold is?
Either way, I guess from his recent racing sirpoc LTHR is likely in the 177-179 range? Recent HM as a guide. He sometimes touches this maybe by the end of the last rep for a minute or two, but certainly not always
Look look at his HR in 10*1k WAY above threshold classic 'pace' at the weekend , but I think HR topped out around 175 by rep 10. It's all about pace versus duration. I think that's what he has worked out as almost a cheat code to keep a remarkable run of training just keeping going over and over again. This seems to have been adapted for himself, combining a lot of different methods through trial and error.
If you take his Vdot threshold, that's around 3:19-3:20. Yet he can easily complete 10*1k in 3:12-13 average without probably ever going over threshold. It would be nice to hear from him with regards as to how easy this felt or how many more reps he could do on top of the 10? IMO this would be a good clue as to how hard this really is for him.
What stuck me was the explanation I think he wrote on Strava. This is MORE aggressive than doubles, but still on the cautious side. You are trying to get as much as you can out on just a single session as opposed to doubles, but also making sure you don't get burnt, playing with fire and that you can still run and complete a workout again in 48 hours. It's a highwire act that requires real discipline and understanding of what the bigger picture is.
I imagineas you get way more experienced training like this, you can get closer to looking over the edge into the abyss but never falling into that slope of no return. Whereas starting out, it makes sense to just very much stay on the cautious side until you get a grip and handle on things.
I was incredibly sceptical myself of this approach and thread earlier in the year but having seen genuine actual improvement , especially in the 5k-HM range for so many people, it's become hard to ignore to be honest. If you aren't considering this at some point as an older time crunched runner, you are probably on the wrong path. Does it work for everyone? Clearly not. As a blanket approach across the board? I'm not sure there is likely something that would suit or benefit a larger percentage of runners out there at the moment.
I believe the 3-4min reps are intended to be run at predicted 12-15km race pace effort. For Sirproc and many others following this style of running this works out quicker than the 'hour race pace' touted by Daniels as threshold pace. So the numbers you've quoted are probably about right. As mentioned it's the controlled intensity and recovery intervals which allow lactate (or RPE or any other metric) to remain sub-threshold.
I do wonder, if trolls are here to troll or just they don't understand actually what threshold is?
Either way, I guess from his recent racing sirpoc LTHR is likely in the 177-179 range? Recent HM as a guide. He sometimes touches this maybe by the end of the last rep for a minute or two, but certainly not always
Look look at his HR in 10*1k WAY above threshold classic 'pace' at the weekend , but I think HR topped out around 175 by rep 10. It's all about pace versus duration. I think that's what he has worked out as almost a cheat code to keep a remarkable run of training just keeping going over and over again. This seems to have been adapted for himself, combining a lot of different methods through trial and error.
If you take his Vdot threshold, that's around 3:19-3:20. Yet he can easily complete 10*1k in 3:12-13 average without probably ever going over threshold. It would be nice to hear from him with regards as to how easy this felt or how many more reps he could do on top of the 10? IMO this would be a good clue as to how hard this really is for him.
What stuck me was the explanation I think he wrote on Strava. This is MORE aggressive than doubles, but still on the cautious side. You are trying to get as much as you can out on just a single session as opposed to doubles, but also making sure you don't get burnt, playing with fire and that you can still run and complete a workout again in 48 hours. It's a highwire act that requires real discipline and understanding of what the bigger picture is.
I imagineas you get way more experienced training like this, you can get closer to looking over the edge into the abyss but never falling into that slope of no return. Whereas starting out, it makes sense to just very much stay on the cautious side until you get a grip and handle on things.
I was incredibly sceptical myself of this approach and thread earlier in the year but having seen genuine actual improvement , especially in the 5k-HM range for so many people, it's become hard to ignore to be honest. If you aren't considering this at some point as an older time crunched runner, you are probably on the wrong path. Does it work for everyone? Clearly not. As a blanket approach across the board? I'm not sure there is likely something that would suit or benefit a larger percentage of runners out there at the moment.
This is a great post. Along with a few others today. Back to the really interesting topic in hand, the actual training. I think this is why the thread stays strong and won't even let the trolls like lexel destroy it, it comes back to being full of hundreds of amazing posters and probably the biggest gathering of useful information to the generic hobby jogger as you will find online. Almost the new hobby joggers training bible. If there was anyone who has been running maybe 6-18 months who wanted to know where to go next, this is the place. But what I find really interesting, are the posters here or the guys on Strava who have been running years who have copied or applied a version of this to themselves and then still improved. That's what takes things from just useful, to remarkable.
What is interesting with regards to sirpoc and what he's doing now, is how he's still managing to find ways to increase load. I'm guessing he's still increasing his CTL and he just did a pretty decent 5k PR, which shows me that you can still even progress with this if you put your mind to it, even when you get to a very high level and keeping the principles the same, but just finding that time or room to train that little bit more. Although easier said than done when you work, have a family, kids etc!
I think replacing one workout with a long run with 15 min Tempo add the end or doing 2x3km / 3x2km as part of the long run, is a great option if you only run 4 days per week in order to hit the 25% lt 75% easy ratio.
I do wonder, if trolls are here to troll or just they don't understand actually what threshold is?
Either way, I guess from his recent racing sirpoc LTHR is likely in the 177-179 range? Recent HM as a guide. He sometimes touches this maybe by the end of the last rep for a minute or two, but certainly not always
Look look at his HR in 10*1k WAY above threshold classic 'pace' at the weekend , but I think HR topped out around 175 by rep 10. It's all about pace versus duration. I think that's what he has worked out as almost a cheat code to keep a remarkable run of training just keeping going over and over again. This seems to have been adapted for himself, combining a lot of different methods through trial and error.
If you take his Vdot threshold, that's around 3:19-3:20. Yet he can easily complete 10*1k in 3:12-13 average without probably ever going over threshold. It would be nice to hear from him with regards as to how easy this felt or how many more reps he could do on top of the 10? IMO this would be a good clue as to how hard this really is for him.
What stuck me was the explanation I think he wrote on Strava. This is MORE aggressive than doubles, but still on the cautious side. You are trying to get as much as you can out on just a single session as opposed to doubles, but also making sure you don't get burnt, playing with fire and that you can still run and complete a workout again in 48 hours. It's a highwire act that requires real discipline and understanding of what the bigger picture is.
I imagineas you get way more experienced training like this, you can get closer to looking over the edge into the abyss but never falling into that slope of no return. Whereas starting out, it makes sense to just very much stay on the cautious side until you get a grip and handle on things.
I was incredibly sceptical myself of this approach and thread earlier in the year but having seen genuine actual improvement , especially in the 5k-HM range for so many people, it's become hard to ignore to be honest. If you aren't considering this at some point as an older time crunched runner, you are probably on the wrong path. Does it work for everyone? Clearly not. As a blanket approach across the board? I'm not sure there is likely something that would suit or benefit a larger percentage of runners out there at the moment.
Lexel. You are a coward. You tried to take a dump on Coggan and H2F and then delete your post. Now you try and claim you are being silenced. You are not only a fraud but a coward and a liar. Just leave or change to a new account. Nobody will ever take your seriously on LRC ever again after your pathetic attempts to make this thread all about you.
I watched what lexel wrote yesterday, and he mentioned Coggan, Sirpoc and H2F in a positive way.
So you are a proven liar, you are fraud and your are not worth much more words. Bad charma little shool boy.