50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

racerdb wrote:

lucKY2b wrote:http://www.runnersworld.com/masters-profiles/tom-mccormack-is-swift-at-60

Talk about hammering out the miles! Sheesh!

Whatever works, right? But you got to wonder what times he could run with easier easy days, and harder hard days? And maybe a long run? His race times aren't much faster than his training times.

Not to say his times aren't noteworthy!!! But could there be more with 'smarter training' and recovery between workouts?

Dave

Some of ya'll may remember 2 years ago I tried pushing it every day (although a lot slower than Tom)and got my weekly average pace under 7 minutes. The theory here is you should be able to race about a minute per mile faster than your training pace for 5K and under. That's when something in my heel snapped and I've been recovering ever since. I recall Allan correctly pointing out the cons of this kind of training. Obviously, a high risk of injury due to busting it every day and never fully recovering.

Charlie's plan might work, but if you haven't trained much as a master, you will be surprised how unforgiving the tendons and ligaments have become.

First find out where you are at. A stress test might not be a bad idea, but personally I would skip it as I am not afraid of dying. The test I would do would be 2x200m or something -- I doubt one all-out lap would tell you much. WAG says 65s shape you can probably make up in 8 weeks, 75s shape you have no hope.

Another way to win would be to make dinner for your wife for the next 8 weeks.

Week 149: 5 hours 42 minutes in 5 runs so far. Tue 1 hr 16 mins with 6x hill plus 15 mins at marathon RP. Sat 2 hr 5 mins long run with last 10 mins at half-marathon RP. Might *not* run 1 hr on Sunday due to travel, in any case I won't make the goal of 8 hours for the week. An uneventful taper week.

Extra long hours at work all week finally caused me to miss a run yesterday, my first zero since 13 January. I didn't mind the zero per se. I don't believe in streaks, if I find myself thinking like that then I just take a day off to break the spell. But I do mind work interfering with my training plan. That's just not right.

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Week 149

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Hello 50+ers. Ahhhhh, spring has finally arrived! And unlike last week, I actually took advantage of it.....and reached my goal.....and am no worse for wear.....and I think I might actually be able to start t-t-t-training again.....gingerly, that is. Managed almost 28 miles on 5 days, most miles since late July. Here's my week:

Sun: 7.6 easy

Mon: off

Tue: 4 miles walk/run: it was more like 4x1 mile (moderate pace, like 7:20) with full walking "recovery"

Wed: 5.3 w/6x(1 lap on, 1/2 lap off) on our goofy, 4 laps=1500m with-a-hill, track. Very even at 87s (6:12 pace) on, 55s off.

Thur: 4.1 easy

Fri: off

Sat: 6.8 w/2@13:20

My main objectives were to hit 20 miles, do a few intervals, and add a short "tempo". I didn't want to set a distance objective on any given run, because I've been stiffening up so much after 30-35 minutes. Both Sunday and Saturday my hip started tightening up at the end. This morning, I am awakening to a mild spasm in that same right outside hip area. I'm sure it'll abate as I get myself more in shape (it's happened before). So for the moment, I'm a happy camper....maybe even 30 this week?

@old and chunky: Charlie has a reasonable plan, but I also agree with Alan that you can't expect to just hop back in to what you used to do and have it just come back. As a teen, a two week running boot camp would whip me into shape; if I tried that today, it'd completely break me. Certainly a lot of that excess weight is going to have to come off, or there is no chance. How long has it been since you were fit? That might play a big role in how quickly you can come back. If it's only been a few years, those tendons and ligaments can probably handle a bit more, but if it's in the range of a decade or more, I think you'll be lucky not to hurt yourself trying to complete this challenge. Good luck.

I have a few friends running Boston in 8-day's time. Shalane Flanagan will be on "60 Minutes" tonight....that's pretty cool. Just got this month's "Running Times" and there sure is a lot about Boston....it's on everyones mind in the wake of last year's bombing tragedy. Godspeed to all that are venturing that way this coming weekend.

Hope you all are enjoying the weather where you are. Any spring races to report? Have a great week all, and I look forward to hearing how things are going. Cheers!

Oh, and I should add that I didn't do any squats this week or last. I want to get my running legs back under me before I re-engage those exercises.

Muddy Girl, a doctor's visit is in order...please do so! I suffered from severe fatigue, weight gain, and various other complaints early last year and I was ready to say, "Oh, just menopause," until I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

"Charlie's plan might work, but if you haven't trained much as a master, you will be surprised how unforgiving the tendons and ligaments have become..."

Ahhh, so true Alan. Rtype and I concur, except I'd change it to "even if you have trained much as a master" when it comes to doing a reasonable facsimile of a sprint by running 1 lap under 60. My Achilles injury in January last year put me out for the entire season. I only began to train again in early October.

But happily the Achilles is behaving and my hamstring pull is completely healed (only took 8 weeks!) We have finally lucked into nice weather, however a brutal work schedule only gave me 3 training days this past week. I'm going to meet a friend for hurdling this morning. She has a coach who generously allowed me to participate with them. My friend loves having company during training and the coach says he enjoys working with masters athletes. He's already uncovered some issues with my form that snuck in over the last 12 months. I've always had hip mobility issues and they show up in my trail leg's position and motion. Time to work on that yet again. Planning on my first meet in late May. I'd love to do something earlier but work and an upcoming wedding are pushing out my outdoor "debut."

So my workouts this week: 2 mile warmup, 4x200, 1/2 mile cooldown. 25 stair flights. An exhausting lifting circuit followed by 5 stair flights (that workout was brutal). And hurdling today. Hope everyone has a great week ahead!

We should have great weather for it!

Thanks for the heads-up about 60 Minutes. I would have missed it.

Boston is also extensively covered in the current (May) issue of Runner's World, and in the previous (March/April) issue of Marathon & Beyond. Shalane F. has the local angle so I can understand the interest there. But I wouldn't pick her over Desiree L., if both are 100% then it's anybody's race. When it gets to mile 20 Shalane is more likely to "go for it", but I'm not sure if that helps or hurts in the marathon.

Tue = 4, with 6X 1 min accelerations

Thr = 4, medium in the cemetery

Sat = 3 with last mile at 6:15 on track

Sun = 7 easy

Tot = 18

Week 5 of training. A nice consistent improvement over last week. Bumped the miles just a bit this week. Chipping away at that mile time.

Have a great week everyone.

Thanks for the tip on 60 minutes interview tonight! I hope Shalane, Desiree, and Ryan all do well (also, Meb if he is running). And I truly hope that Universal Sports shows all the US top finishers as part of their coverage and gives their stories. It is always a disappointment to me when an American finishes in the top 5 (LA marathon - 3rd went to US woman) and they did not even show her crossing the finish line! Geez!

Thanks for all the great 5K advice. Just what I needed.

Finally feeling like my legs are starting to wake up again and back on my normal training regimen without struggling. And then....UGH! (See today's race post...).

Next Race: OKC April 27 (well, we will see)

Mon: a.m. 6 mi easy; p.m. 4 mi

Tues: a.m. 8 mi easy; easy yoga class; p.m. 6 mi with 6x400's at 1:30 with 400 recovery.

Wed: a.m. 6 mi easy, easy

Thurs: a.m. 11 mi with 10x 1 min fartleks, 1 min recovery. easy yoga class.

Fri: OFF

Sat: 14 mi easy

Sun: 5K Runners Club Race. Done this race before and enjoyed. First .75mi on soft surface (so have to watch footing), then transitions to concrete, then back to gravely surface for .5 mi, TURNAROUND, gravely, concrete, soft surface, FINISH. No problem, right. So I go out comfortable (ok, winds were blowing at 30 MPH or harder so it wasn't really comfortable) but I am happy with my pace and not struggling. I pass one of the other woman who typically beats me in 5K's at the turnaround and start to pick up the pace to see if I can catch the final woman in front of me (who always beats me). No problems, nothing hurts, feeling fine, and I transition from the gravel to the concrete, and OH NO! I roll my left ankle on perfectly flat concrete and something goes (rrrriipppp!). OUCH! I immediately stop. No sense in trying to finish now. My first DNF - can't walk it in, so get a friendly spectator to transport me via car. Hubby wraps my ankle at the finish line (Love a man with ankle wraps in his car!) and hubby and I both hobble to the car. He has been struggling with a sore heel and it is really aggravated now.

So, I am sitting at home, ankle is all wrapped with ice. Painful sitting - even more painful walking. We shall see what tomorrow brings.

Can definitely relate to muddy's post last week right now. UGH! WTH!!! Thank goodness this board posts struggles as well as victories - I have never had a running injury so I will learn from you how to recovery as well as retrain (if I really hurt myself).

Glad Lucky is beginning to recovery and best to WOC on his recovery.

Great suggestion Alan - I'll pass on to my hubby!

GreteHund wrote:So, I am sitting at home, ankle is all wrapped with ice. Painful sitting - even more painful walking. We shall see what tomorrow brings.

Oh no, what a bummer! I am so sorry. Sounds like a classic ankle sprain. But some ankle sprains are worse than others, and it's often hard to know while it is still inflamed. While I've had my bad luck with other things, I've only ever had grade 1 sprains; I'm sure others on here have had experience with grade 2 or worse, if it comes to that. Regardless, I'd trust what the ortho-doctors say (R.I.C.E.):

and I'll pray for a quick recovery! :-(

Old & chunky, I hope you do it, for all our sakes, but with only 8 weeks to go, and ~30lbs to lose, you might not get fit enough until the 300 mark of the actual 400 - barring injury, it will we quite an accomplishment. Nothing personal, but my money is on your wife.

Ran (shuffled) twice this week and did 2 days of yard work. Hoping I'm turning the corner, this week will be key. 1 year post transplant is Wednesday, April 16th, going to have to cancel the VO2 max test, but will celebrate none the less.

Have a good week all! Enjoy the marathon results.

A solid steady 71 miles for me this week, none of it faster then 8:00 pace. I am trying to just keep putting in these daily 10 milers until they start feeling very comfortable and then I will start working in the quality.

GreteHund wrote:

So, I am sitting at home, ankle is all wrapped with ice. Painful sitting - even more painful walking. We shall see what tomorrow brings.

Take that sprain seriously, and don't be in a rush to get back out the door. My last ankle sprain, and my rush to get back out the door, left me with considerable problems.

Once the swelling goes down and such, you might consider a trip to some medical person (chiropractor is my preference) and have your ankle checked to make sure that nothing is out of whack.

old and chunky,

First, welcome to the thread, generally one of the most troll-free on LRC (although we've had our moments)

Important item missing is what does your current running consist of whilst you tote that 40 lbs.?

I'll summarize this few year old thread for you as follows: 90% of us 50+ folks get injured attempting race goals 50% as audacious as yours and moan about it here while we take weeks and months off running. Barring knowledge on your present running fitness, my guess is that you are violating any common sense training ramp vs time.

I agree with suggestions you should keep the race objective, move out the date.

My focus is pain free running and building foundation before I start any race training. In that regard, it's going real well.

M recovery day, road bike 35 minutes rolling hills moderate pace, short abs & back in gym, myrtl

Tu flat road & trail run 59 minutes, easy to medium pace w 6 minutes at 3k-5k race pace. First sustained speed or tempo work all year, otherwise just some strides. Planks & Myrtl

W Strength work at gym - core and legs

Th trail run mostly flat a few hills 47 minutes, felt great easy to medium pace, did not feel like I was pushing while keeping up good pace. Planks and Myrtl

F -

Sa very hilly trail run/hike 101 minutes. Several minutes of this course unrunnable. 5 minutes faster and felt much stronger at end than I ran it 4 weeks ago. Planks & Myrtl

Su mountain bike hilly course 65 minutes, easy effort

5 hrs 36 minutes running 2 hrs 45 minutes cross training. Another good week for me. It's so fun to run pain free again.

I didn't even get all the way through the posts before I saw GreteHund's and had to respond. My ankle is improving quite rapidly. On Monday (the day after), I could barely walk. I went to the pool that night and aqua jogged, and noted to my surprise that it felt a bit better and I wrapped it that night (I'd used a compression sock during the day). I've been in the pool every day and I think it really helps my ankle. Part of it may be the slight pressure of the water and part of it is being able to go through a range of motion (for an hour) without touching the ground. I iced it the first two days, kept it wrapped when working and running and done a little running (more of that later) and "run" in the water 40-60 minutes every day. It's not quite 100%, but it feels pretty good. There was minimal bruising and not that much swelling at all. So, Grete, hop yourself into the pool and see if it helps. It probably won't hurt and at least you'll feel like your are doing something -- but from my experience, it seems to help a lot.

As for me, Monday I couldn't go down steps and could barely shuffle/walk. Tuesday, it felt much better and I jogged a tiny bit with my son (to get Slurpees ;) ) and felt a tiny tightness in the calf. Wednesday, I tried 6 x 1 min. with 1 min. walks - very tentatively, then 60 min. of pool. Thursday I only had time for a walk (45 min. and 30 min. of pool), Friday, 9 x 1 min., 45 min. pool, Saturday, 10 x 2 min./1 min walk, 40 min. pool and today, 10 x 2 min. run/1 min. walk, no pool because it's only open a few hours, so I mowed the lawn and did yard work.

I found a new favorite track, which is my part of town (which means no traffic). It's brand new and I wasn't sure I could get on it, but this weekend it was open both days (and except for 20 min. today, no one was on it). It's really nice, and has a few trees around the perimeter and is in a little bowl, so I was happy to be able to use it. I figure with the ankle less than perfect and my calf not being able to adjust, the flat soft track was the best choice -- besides, I'm only running 2.5 miles. I was able to run 8 min. pace (faster on the last one), so that was fun.

After the yard work, my calf's a little crampy, so I'd better be careful. The pool work may be keeping in loose, we'll see how tomorrow goes.

And Spikez, I will try to get in the doctor's. I am sure most of my recent troubles are related to something other than running too hard. Right now, I"m supplementing with vitamin D, calcium, magnesium and a multi-plus iron - quite a switch for a woman who never used to take anything.

Feeling happy that I can run a little, and optimistic that maybe I can actually keep this up -- but I also realize that two weeks ago I was so thrilled to be doing 10x5 min. and then a day later was back to square one.

thanks for the support, everyone. It means a lot!!!

GreteHund wrote:

(if I really hurt myself).

A good rule of thumb: If it goes (rrrriipppp!), then you really hurt yourself.

The best advice I ever got for a severe sprain was from a PT, she told me to walk on it. It was counter-intuitive and definitely not what I had been doing. Once I started walking, it healed quick. So I advise walking -- not around the block, just from the car to the kitchen. Try to walk with normal form, not favoring the ankle. Know that the pain is just from pressure of the fluid, and you need that fluid to circulate out of there to promote healing.

The second best advice was I read somewhere, if you try to run through a sprain you will get Achilles tendinitis. After reading that, I decided to test it out on myself. I did manage to PR but you can guess what happened next. I think it's the lack of mobility in the ankle that causes the tendinitis. So I advise going through PT and getting a good strengthening and stretching program from them.

Ended up with a 71 mile week. M-T-W-T were not good days. Legs trashed and felt like I was just dragging my butt thru the runs. Ham, heal & calves were hurting. Took off my watch and 'just ran' F-S-S and ended up finally feeling good again, on all three days.

Probably keep with the steady running plan this week and get back to feeling good. May attempt a tempo run midweek.

Keep on keeping on...

Dave