Sub 3HR Fall Marathon Thread - The quest for less amateur glory begins?

highhoppingworm wrote:

So normally I would wait to post until Sunday after my race. That said, I am too excited. These shoes are pretty absurd.

Ha ha! I just came back from my lunch run, sitting here with a grin on my face! The 4% were super nice, but the next%... That, that was some seriously nice shoes to run in :-)

Northener wrote:

highhoppingworm wrote:

So normally I would wait to post until Sunday after my race. That said, I am too excited. These shoes are pretty absurd.

Ha ha! I just came back from my lunch run, sitting here with a grin on my face! The 4% were super nice, but the next%... That, that was some seriously nice shoes to run in :-)

4% has spoiled me - decided to do my long runs in these shoes and the recovery is night & day to a regular shoe. I usually run in an Altra Soltice, which I affectionately call "cardboard boxes".

How many miles can you put on your training pair? I do have access to a Nike friends and family discount which halves the price.

Hi All- I'm a bit late to update my last training week.

I started my three week taper with my goal race being the Kansas City Marathon on 10/19

Stats: 25M, 6'0", ~155

Monday: 4mi @ 8:53

Tuesday: 20 minute tempo on the track @ 6:11 pace plus WU/CD = 6.16 Mi.

Wednesday: 4mi @8:47

Thursday: 4mi @ 8:53

Friday: Mini workout- 4@MP (6:41 avg) straight into 1 mi. Hard (5:58) - had a bit of asthma flare up on this one. I think because it was my first workout in colder weather (50ish F) I have never had asthma issues in Marathon races before and the current forecast has around 55F at start time although we're still 10 days out.

Total Mi for Friday - 6.8

Saturday: 13.7mi Long run with 5@MP(6:39 avg). Flat rails to trails trail. I somehow managed to step on a rock and bruise my foot right in between my big toe and my second toe. It actually still hurts a bit when I run, so that's annoying. I run almost exclusively in pretty minimalist shoes (less than 1cm of shoe between my foot and the road) and I've only ever bruised a foot from stepping on a rock 1 other time, which was about 7 years ago. Other than that the run went great, and the MP miles felt relaxed (didn't even check splits on them and they were all 6:38-6:42).

Sunday - Off letting the foot rest.

Total: 38.8

I'm shooting for sub 3 but my A goal is really to BQ (probably 2:57 or just a bit quicker). Tentatively planning to go out at 6:48 pace and go through in 1:29, then hopefully I'll feel good enough in the 2nd have to pick up an extra minute or two running around 6:43 pace for 1:28. It'll probably tight, but I don't want to dig myself into a hole in the first half.

finallyransub17 wrote:

I'm shooting for sub 3 but my A goal is really to BQ (probably 2:57 or just a bit quicker). Tentatively planning to go out at 6:48 pace and go through in 1:29, then hopefully I'll feel good enough in the 2nd have to pick up an extra minute or two running around 6:43 pace for 1:28. It'll probably tight, but I don't want to dig myself into a hole in the first half.

Sounds like a good plan. That's about how I plan my race as well. Want to go through in 1.28.30ish, feeling relaxed and then stay on pace or have a minute to loose, but still go sub3.

runnerchef wrote:

Northener wrote:

Ha ha! I just came back from my lunch run, sitting here with a grin on my face! The 4% were super nice, but the next%... That, that was some seriously nice shoes to run in :-)

4% has spoiled me - decided to do my long runs in these shoes and the recovery is night & day to a regular shoe. I usually run in an Altra Soltice, which I affectionately call "cardboard boxes".

I dunno. I try to stay away from them in training in order to get that wow feeling when I race. Only use it for key workouts close to race in order to see where I'm at. Don't want to get used to not flexing my big toe joint properly, which happens in those shoes.

Northener wrote:

I dunno. I try to stay away from them in training in order to get that wow feeling when I race. Only use it for key workouts close to race in order to see where I'm at. Don't want to get used to not flexing my big toe joint properly, which happens in those shoes.

I hear you - doing

runnerchef wrote:

Northener wrote:

I dunno. I try to stay away from them in training in order to get that wow feeling when I race. Only use it for key workouts close to race in order to see where I'm at. Don't want to get used to not flexing my big toe joint properly, which happens in those shoes.

I hear you - doing

doing less than 20% of my weekly mileage doesnt feel to be an issue. I don't want to get used to the feeling, and I don't think I am - but recovering quickly and not compromising the next weeks' workout is a great benefit.

runnerchef wrote:

runnerchef wrote:

I hear you - doing

doing less than 20% of my weekly mileage doesnt feel to be an issue. I don't want to get used to the feeling, and I don't think I am - but recovering quickly and not compromising the next weeks' workout is a great benefit.

Yeah. The recovery part is a good thing. I'm going to have trouble staying away from using them in all faster workouts... Pleasant problem though ?

I look at it like this.

1) Race in them? Yes

2) Run long runs in them before better recover? Maybe

3) Run key workout/intervals to gauge fitness ahead of races? Maybe

I think my answer will be a synthesis of 2 and 3. I will wear them on long runs where a portion of that long run is a key workout.

highhoppingworm wrote:

I look at it like this.

1) Race in them? Yes

2) Run long runs in them before better recover? Maybe

3) Run key workout/intervals to gauge fitness ahead of races? Maybe

I think my answer will be a synthesis of 2 and 3. I will wear them on long runs where a portion of that long run is a key workout.

For sure - the sweet spot I think is having an older pair of 4% and a pair only to race in...that is what I am doing...my 4%s have maybe 200 miles on them and my Next% have 0 and will remain only a racing shoe. Will continue to use the 4% for long runs over 2 hours until they fall apart (placebo effect at somepoint, I am sure!)

Toadlips wrote:

Now you all have me second-guessing my shoes and my desire to not do business with Nike.

At the very least, I think I'll get a brand new pair of Kinvaras for the weekend...and maybe I'll take the Nikes for a test ride on the treadmill while I'm at the store...

While I have no problem doing business with Nike, they don't care to do business with me. No 4% or Next% in a size 14. I have Zoom Fly (both flyknit and 3) and while it has some of the tech from the Vapor/Next they are just sooo heavy. Each Zoomfly 3 was 13 oz. in a 14. Looked around a bit and tried the NB Fuel Cell Rebel, fairly light, fairly cushioned and springy, and way more comfortable than any of the Nikes I have (foot moves around a lot in the flyknit and still too much in the 3 and I get hot spots).

So, I'll be wearing the Fuel Cell Rebels in Chicago. Wave 1, corral A. Was going to shoot for sub 2:50, but I'd need perfect conditions...and 20 mph winds are not that. At 6'5" and 185 lbs, I'm a drafters delight...have a feeling I'll be popular in the headwinds. This will be my 6th open road marathon and first since 2016...starting to get a bit nervous!

Just got them this week. Marathon is on Sunday. Wore them for a couple of easy run and the toe beside the big one is pretty achey / and a blister at the too of it so unfortunately not gonna be wearing them. I think its from when the shoe springs you off.

You are blessed with large feet, but that does suck that it limits your choice of footwear. You may have seen a post from "TheJeff", who is a bigger dude. He raves about various Skechers shoes.

My local running store made the shoe decision very easy for me because they didn't have the Next% in stock, so I didn't get a chance to try it. I did get a fresh pair of Kinvaras, so I've got that going for me.

I've done a little research, and it seems that Nike really does have the market cornered in the light, cushioned, carbon plate marathon shoe department. Everything I've read seems to support the theoretical 4% gain from the Vaporfly series. That's insane! I assumed it was marketing hype and never really gave it much thought till now.

A shoe that provides quicker recovery and faster times is a fantastic development, but until this type of technology becomes ubiquitous, Nike has everyone over a $250 barrel. Hopefully Brooks, New Balance, Saucony, Skechers, etc. will up their game and provide some competition in this market.

As for Chicago, the temps look good, but it is shaping up to be a windy day. If that's the case, I'll try to duck behind someone who matches your description! I'm running from Corral B, Wave 1. I will probably shoot for somewhere around 6:45 pace by my watch and see how it goes. My old watch (Garmin 910XT) was off by about 7 minutes per mile in Detroit, where 6:45 by my watch had me at 6:52 pace according to the course. Of course, if that feels too tough at the beginning, then my plan B is to pass the half in 1:30 and try for 1:29 on the back half.

I have the Stryd footpod now with the Garmin 935, so tunnels, buildings, etc. should not be an issue. The thing is super accurate according to some tests I've done at the local track. Last/only time I raced with it, it was showing that I was running 2 seconds/mile faster than my actual time, so that's an improvement over the old watch, for sure.

Good luck to you!

...er...old watch was off by 7 seconds...

Best of luck to all doing Chicago and other races this weekend! “May the wind be at your back and your vaporfly 4%s carry you to glory.” (Ancient Irish proverb?)

It’s been a while since I’ve checked in. On week 4 of Houston training (race is 1/19/20). So far mileage has been 56, 52, 44 and 50 (expected for this week). Last week and this week have been a bit of a step back. After some really good workouts in the first two weeks, I stupidly ran through some cramping calves last week and developed shin splints in my right leg. Went to the PT, who said I can continue to run easy. So that’s what I’ve been doing this week—some easy running without any faster paces.

Here’s my internal debate: Houston is still over 3 months away. I went from training for a marathon this June, to training for an HM this fall and haven’t really taken a full-stop break to allow some of the niggles I’ve picked up this year to heal. Should I just shut everything down for one week, rest up completely and then dive into the meat of training feeling fresh and healthy? OR should I continue to run easy this next week and hope the shin splints gradually go away? I don’t think taking one week off would do a ton of harm training-wise as I have a pretty good base from this summer/early fall, but I’m also neurotic, 3 months isn’t THAT much time, and I generally just like getting out for runs. Any thoughts?

That's a tough call. I'd personally split the difference and take maybe 3 days off, and then do a few days very easy. Ideally, this would allow you to heal up and make a negligible difference on your fitness. At least for me (I can be similarly neurotic), a full week off might leave me a bit sluggish, whereas after 3 days off I can pick up on my running like nothing had happened.

That being said, I've had calf issues in the past where I tried this approach and just had to suck it up and give my calf a couple weeks. But with shin issues in my experience I've had more luck.

Bite the bullet and get those silly looking calf compression socks. They really helped my shin splints. Allowed me to mostly run through them.

That, and standing on the edge of my bathtub on my heels with my toes hanging of the edge and doing fast toe raises , then when the shins start to burn, go into a semi squat without moving your feet and keep going, then back to standing, then back to semi squat. Really gets your shins burning

Thanks for the advice guys. Yes, I’ve been thinking about those calf sleeves for a while now. Do you have a preferred brand?