Sad News: Frank Meza Found Dead In LA River

Well, I agree with that. But, that is a possible scenario, which is/was the point the post.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I posted because speculation and opinion concerning both his mental fitness and the motivation for his apparent suicide, seem to be mistaken for fact in this thread. I am interested in a reasonable discussion of the facts of his passing (of which there appear to be precious few), not in the facts of his alleged cheating.

No, you want speculation only on your terms, ignoring all the overwhelming evidence that he cheated and deciding that this had nothing to do with his suicide for reasons that I can only suggest are an attempt to muddy the waters.

Toobs wrote:

https://psmag.com/news/the-suicide-rate-is-at-its-highest-in-a-half-century

Your line of thinking is leading to an epidemic. Throw in mortality for Opiate addiction and we have a serious problem in this nation. I have witnessed several students take there life at the HS where I teach -- over SAT scores, GPA, not getting into the college the want. This is a serious matter to me, and to hedge, and say it is a "reasonable" alternative does not sit well with me. Suicide is never okay. Euthanasia is a different story.

This. Not sure why sprintgeezer is trying to romanticize this. It’s a shame and a tragedy and so unnecessary.

kmaclam wrote:

And this just in from Inside Edition..........and the meta narrative, for those whose attention spans aren't long enough to follow this whole story is Frank's daughter claiming her Dad was cyberbullied by "comments that were mean and distrustful"...

https://www.insideedition.com/media/videos/family-accused-los-angeles-marathon-cheater-says-he-was-cyberbullied-54277

Aka “we are setting the stage for our massive lawsuit.”

Daddy was weak, but if we can get a few million $$$, why not?

MohammedAA wrote:

kmaclam wrote:

And this just in from Inside Edition..........and the meta narrative, for those whose attention spans aren't long enough to follow this whole story is Frank's daughter claiming her Dad was cyberbullied by "comments that were mean and distrustful"...

https://www.insideedition.com/media/videos/family-accused-los-angeles-marathon-cheater-says-he-was-cyberbullied-54277

Aka “we are setting the stage for our massive lawsuit.”

Daddy was weak, but if we can get a few million $$$, why not?

If they were being sincere about the bullying claims, then why on earth would they give Inside Edition this type of blame-shifting interview? It was Inside Edition which not only broadcast all the accusations against Frank, but actually turned up and filmed themselves knocking at an unanswered door.

Smb wrote:

Deadesq,

I suspect Sprintgeezer is really the same troll as Took Me A While.

Nobody can really be that obtuse, right? Right?

Didn't read all of his posts but he's definitely exhibiting troll-like behavior, probably realizing it too. Mainly, by stating "I have no idea if he cheated or not" while posting on multiple pages of a thread about the man cheating. *eyeroll*

Ruggo wrote:

Smb wrote:

Deadesq,

I suspect Sprintgeezer is really the same troll as Took Me A While.

Nobody can really be that obtuse, right? Right?

Didn't read all of his posts but he's definitely exhibiting troll-like behavior, probably realizing it too. Mainly, by stating "I have no idea if he cheated or not" while posting on multiple pages of a thread about the man cheating. *eyeroll*

Agreed. If he wasn't being deliberately obtuse, he could make his point by saying something like: "It's obvious that Frank Meza cheated, but that doesn't make us privy to the workings of his mind as to exactly why he committed suicide. Everyone here is just speculating on that and it's unnecessary".

That would have saved a few speculative posts...

Yes. That was one of the problems I had with the LA times article. It asked if he was a cheat. We knew he was a cheat. He was DQd from CIM two times. That means you are a cheat.

One question I have is when a race like CIM DQs you, do they note it in results? Issue a press release. I mean if I run a marathon, tell everyone I ran it in 3 hours. People see the resutls and then I get DQd 2 weeks later, my buddies may never know I was DQd.

I guess not, as Frank's family had his medal from CIM which he was disqualified and banned from in pride of place in the photos from the interview they gave. I'm sure they don't even know he was disqualified from that one.

.

Rojo, let's keep some perspective here. When you tell your friends you ran a time, they probably aren't going to check your results to confirm; moreover, what is the likelihood of them ever seeing a press release on your disqualification?

What most seem to expect the RDs to do is to scratch the itch for a sense of justice, but those things aren't going to have a practical impact in most scenarios. DQing someone is pretty much all that should reasonably be expected of RDs.

Now, the LAM fell short of even that until they were confronted in a very public way with the issue; so that is where the real problem is.

Come on, stop being so emotional. I am not romanticizing anything, I merely point out other possibilities, and offer a different perspective. I have no agenda in this, only curiosity.

As for the alleged cheating, I accept that everyone agrees that it is a fact, and that is fine by me because I have no interest in it.

This is a theead not about cheating, but about Meza’s death. Read the title.

“Suicide” is a determination of fact made, I think, by the coroner, based on other facts known to the coroner. At this point, without knowing the underlying facts, I see no reason to accept unquestioningly the determination of suicide.

I accept it only provisionally.

Do they know he wasn’t pushed?

Do they know that it wasn’t accidental—that he wasn’t maybe thinking about it and slipped and fell unintentionally?

Were there witnesses, and what exactly did they witness?

Did Meza make any declarations?

There are many unanswered questions. I have no conclusions or opinion, I’m just waiting for more facts, and pointing out possibilities.

As for muddying your waters, absolutely. Your conclusions might not be wrong, but your arguments are porous and weak.

It is your certitude that is unwarranted. Just take a step back, and realize that there is probably much that you don’t know, that could affect your conclusions or the strength of your conclusions.

I think you are taking things to such an extreme that nothing could be asserted as a fact.

Not only is it reasonable to reach conclusions without something being proven without any doubt whatsoever, but our entire legal system is predicated upon the idea that it is possible to do so.

My question to you is why you would pose so many of your questions above while admittedly being willfully ignorant of the facts of this matter? The existing threads provide enough significant support to answers to your questions such that you really shouldn't have to ask them.

No, no one here can prove with certainty that Frank killed himself; but it is the only reasonable conclusion that can be reached based on the facts presented.

No, no one can prove Frank's motivations for committing suicide, but, based on the facts presented, it is reasonable to conclude that some aspect of this cheating scandal motivated him.

What I will agree with you on is that we cannot (i) conclude that the cheating scandal was the motivation with absolute certainty (although it is absolutely the most reasonable conclusion), and (ii) reasonably reach any conclusion as to what aspect of the scandal motivated him.

Smoove I respect your posting, but it is all premature to me. I see no reason to commit to any conclusions or opinions at this time. Remember, you don’t know that which you don’t know about.

Believe me, I know all about standards of proof.

I will just continue to follow developments as the investigations, if any, proceed.

Smoove wrote:

Rojo, let's keep some perspective here. When you tell your friends you ran a time, they probably aren't going to check your results to confirm; moreover, what is the likelihood of them ever seeing a press release on your disqualification?

What most seem to expect the RDs to do is to scratch the itch for a sense of justice, but those things aren't going to have a practical impact in most scenarios. DQing someone is pretty much all that should reasonably be expected of RDs.

Now, the LAM fell short of even that until they were confronted in a very public way with the issue; so that is where the real problem is.

If one of my friends tells me he set a world record, I'm expecting all kind of details while I help him celebrate.

I'll state this again. What is needed is a searchable list for runners who have been DQ'd from any marathon event. This list would be dominated by PED violators. And in the event disclaimers have a yes or no question....Have you ever been DQ'd from a marathon? This could, of course be applied to other race distances and types. This may have protected FM from himself back in 2014. AND, it would not have been necessary for his family, friends, co-workers and clients, neighbors, US citizens and every person in the entire world to be made aware of. Some on LR and MI seemed to want this...and they got it...the entire world...ask yourself this...would you want the entire world to know your deepest darkest secret? If not, then why did so many try so hard to punish FM this way. The MSM most likely would not have picked up on the FM news, if not for the efforts of some here to achieve that. Obviously what happened on LR did not stay on LR.

pattylover2001 wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I posted because speculation and opinion concerning both his mental fitness and the motivation for his apparent suicide, seem to be mistaken for fact in this thread. I am interested in a reasonable discussion of the facts of his passing (of which there appear to be precious few), not in the facts of his alleged cheating.

Why do you keep saying "apparent suicide" when it has been confirmed he committed suicide? Why do you keep saying alleged cheating when it has been proven beyond a doubt that he cheated?

A trained ME determined the cause of death.

Wild speculation, grainy photos and blog posts by amateurs are not conclusive of anything

Sancreed wrote:

MohammedAA wrote:

Aka “we are setting the stage for our massive lawsuit.”

Daddy was weak, but if we can get a few million $$$, why not?

If they were being sincere about the bullying claims, then why on earth would they give Inside Edition this type of blame-shifting interview? It was Inside Edition which not only broadcast all the accusations against Frank, but actually turned up and filmed themselves knocking at an unanswered door.

If derek and LR were sincere about catching cheaters why do the sensationalize every detail?

tartarm wrote:

If derek and LR were sincere about catching cheaters why do the sensationalize every detail?

OK Tantrum, how did Derek threaten you and what were the circumstances? Do you have a GPS track of the race in question?

tartarm wrote:

pattylover2001 wrote:

Why do you keep saying "apparent suicide" when it has been confirmed he committed suicide? Why do you keep saying alleged cheating when it has been proven beyond a doubt that he cheated?

A trained ME determined the cause of death.

Wild speculation, grainy photos and blog posts by amateurs are not conclusive of anything

It looks like the autopsy report is available for $42