But it has always been that way at least since modern societies were created. Some social constructs have connection to material reality, others (like traffic signals) don't.
Take "adulthood" as an example of the former. It certainly has connection to the chronological age, which is material reality. (The length of a "year" does not depend on any social contract.) However, the definition of "adult" has been different across societies and over time. Even in the same jurisdiction, the minimum age for driving, voting and drinking alcohol can be different. In some premodern societies, it was not based on calendar age, but on one's physical changes or abilities to do certain tasks. And to your point, the legal age has been determined by people with power.
However, when the World Athletics hosts World U-20 championships, they need a unified definition of "under 20." They base it on the age at the end of the year, instead of the age at the time of the competition. This gives advantage to some athletes over others. But that's how they have decided and all member countries have to follow that rule. No one could claim to be eligible just because he is a minor according to the law of his country. At the same time, the U-20 eligibility rule does not prevent the same person from having the legal status of a minor in his own country.
So in short, this is nothing new.
Whether someone is a male or a female is decided by biology at birth.
When adulthood begins is decided by whatever society you are in and even then is a gray area.
The two are in no way the same thing
I think it's more accurate to say that in humans and other mammals, sex is determined by biology/DNA at conception.
The chromosomal/genetic sex of human fetuses can be found out at 8-9 weeks through methods of genetic testing that have been around for a long time - CVS, an invasive method using a sample of placental cells that's been in use since the 1980s, and the more recently-developed NIPT, a non-invasive method that can tell the chromosomal/genetic sex of a fetus from a sample of the mother's blood drawn from a vein in the standard ways used in most blood testing.
From 14 weeks on, the sex of human fetuses can be determined with nearly 100% accuracy based on physical features seen by sonogram. Since the 1980s, it's been standard for pregnant women receiving routine prenatal care to get a sonogram scan in the 2nd trimester to check for abnormalities. These scans all reveal the sex of the fetus. Most pregnant women who have medical care get these scans by week 20.
As a result, the norm in the so-called developed world for many decades now has been for the sex of most humans to be known and recorded in medical records 5-4 months before birth. Or in the case of women who've had CVS or NIPT, 7 months before birth.
Transgender is real, trans people are real, and they do exist. I'm not going to get into weird biology debates about it. There are enough trans people throughout the course of history to prove that transgender is a real phenomenon. Trans people exist, intersex people exist etc.
I'm not as convinced about "non binary." That seems new, and arbitrary, and it seems like the rules around non binary are always bending and changing. If you want to identify that way, fine by me, but don't expect the whole world to bend to your whim.
I believe everyone deserves a world where they are treated with dignity and respect, and as a human being with value. That includes trans and non binary people. So: employment? You can't discriminate. If they can do the job they should have it. That goes for promotions too. Pronouns? Respect them. it's how people want to be referred to whether you agree with it or not. Especially if they stay in the realm of he, she and they. That's easy to do. Clothes?--let people wear what they want as long as they're covered up. Relationships?--let people do what they want as long as it's consensual. No bullying. No telling people they aren't who they say they are. No conversion therapy.
Medication? Puberty blockers? Surgery? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a medical practitioner, and most people who argue against access to these things aren't either. If it's not your body, or your child, then why do you care? Why is it your business what someone else chooses to do? That's private. You shouldn't busy yourself so much with it. Let people make their own choices and if they regret it, well is that your problem?
But here is where I draw the line. You can't enact policies that are blatantly unfair in the name of equality. Trans women, are women but they are biologically male. They have an unfair advantage in physical tests. Going from 172nd to 4th? This ain't it. This athlete should not be allowed to compete with cis girls.
Medication? Puberty blockers? Surgery? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a medical practitioner, and most people who argue against access to these things aren't either. If it's not your body, or your child, then why do you care?
Because not caring about child abuse is psychopathic.
Medication? Puberty blockers? Surgery? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a medical practitioner, and most people who argue against access to these things aren't either. If it's not your body, or your child, then why do you care?
Because not caring about child abuse is psychopathic.
I follow with your logic and your very good examples. I am not sure I would agree that there is nothing new, however.
Take your U-20 example. If everyone were to agree that there is an absolute truth in regards to age, then there is a system that people agree is fair. If someone claims to have a birthdate in 2004, then they will be U-20 through the rest of this year. If someone's birth certificate shows that their birthdate is in 1998, they wouldn't be allowed to compere U-20. But, if this person said that they are 19 years old and not 25, then the powers that be will say, "sorry, you can not compete in this division". BUT, if the societal conditions were to be evolving so that it became accepted that age was a function of one's internal clock and when the individual believed their birthday to be (say 2005) and not necessarily tied to a birth certificate date, and if the powers that be came to accept this, then the truth would be that this person is whatever age they claimed to be.
This degree of subjective truth based on individual preference is new, imo. I am not saying that I disagree with it (though my truth would be different), just that I observe this to exist.
Okay, but what you described is certainly not happening at U-20 championships, and nothing similar about sex is happening at any WA sanctioned track & field meets. WA has a clear definition of eligibility in women's events. If you don't meet that definition, it does not matter how you identify or how you look.
At the same time, this WA rule does not prevent other entities from having track & field meets that are not sanctioned by WA. So US high schools can set a narrower definition of a "woman" like 23 states do, a wider definition of a "woman" like 15 states plus DC do, or somewhere in between.
I think that's where part of the confusion comes from. We have multiple entities with authorities in their own jurisdiction, and they can all get to choose their own definition of a "woman." This is true about both sport governing bodies and the government institutions (the US federal government, the state governments, etc.) If you are an activist group, you get to overturn the decision of one body or another without having to overturn everyone else's decision. That gives their activism more attainable goal, but also creates more confusion.
Another reason for confusion is that more people have platforms in today's society. There have already been people who believe in flat-earth theory or other fact-free stuffs. But they used to lack platforms to propagate their ideas. Now it's easier than ever.
Finally, I will add that less simplicity is not always negative. The idea that sex is binary and is always determined by chromosome has appeal to many people for its simplicity. But it ignores the existence of intersex people, and thus ignores the reality. It should not be upheld as "truth" just because it makes many people more comfortable.
Because not caring about child abuse is psychopathic.
How do you know it's child abuse?
Putting a distressed child who can't meaningfully consent (nor legally purchase a cigarette or scratch card) on experimental puberty blockers, cross sex hormones or removing their sexual organs, future sexual function and fertility is 100% child abuse, in every case. The Cass report shows in detail how utterly reckless this period has been, particularly against gay and autistic kids. We will look back on these affected children and detransitioners in the same way we now look back on lobotomies.
Transgender is real, trans people are real, and they do exist. I'm not going to get into weird biology debates about it. There are enough trans people throughout the course of history to prove that transgender is a real phenomenon. Trans people exist, intersex people exist etc.
I'm not as convinced about "non binary." That seems new, and arbitrary, and it seems like the rules around non binary are always bending and changing. If you want to identify that way, fine by me, but don't expect the whole world to bend to your whim.
I believe everyone deserves a world where they are treated with dignity and respect, and as a human being with value. That includes trans and non binary people. So: employment? You can't discriminate. If they can do the job they should have it. That goes for promotions too. Pronouns? Respect them. it's how people want to be referred to whether you agree with it or not. Especially if they stay in the realm of he, she and they. That's easy to do. Clothes?--let people wear what they want as long as they're covered up. Relationships?--let people do what they want as long as it's consensual. No bullying. No telling people they aren't who they say they are. No conversion therapy.
Medication? Puberty blockers? Surgery? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a medical practitioner, and most people who argue against access to these things aren't either. If it's not your body, or your child, then why do you care? Why is it your business what someone else chooses to do? That's private. You shouldn't busy yourself so much with it. Let people make their own choices and if they regret it, well is that your problem?
But here is where I draw the line. You can't enact policies that are blatantly unfair in the name of equality. Trans women, are women but they are biologically male. They have an unfair advantage in physical tests. Going from 172nd to 4th? This ain't it. This athlete should not be allowed to compete with cis girls.
That was the longest “trans people deserve respect, but…” post I’ve ever read. Your acceptance of someone’s identity should not have to be conditional on the activity they are doing at a given moment. If someone tells me she is a woman in 100% of her daily life, then that includes when she is running.
Would you still refer to her as “she” on the cross country course?
What happened to the two California trans girls who were bullied out of the State final last year? Are they competing in XC?
The one in SoCal is competing as a boy this year. Unsure of the other.
To those that say this is a miniscule issue that is just frankly stupid. This is the total slippery slope issue if there ever is one. Just like when people say who cares the criminals rights were violated. Well dumbazz, sure to bad criminal, but if they can violate their rights, they can violate your rights. Eventually this type of BS will have an effect on you, maybe not in the sports realm but in some other realm.
Laws were put in place to assure equality for women in sports. To now ignore those laws is ridiculous. For those who think this is ok, are you fine with PED's in sports? This is a factor of ten to that.
Laws were put in place to assure equality for women in sports. To now ignore those laws is ridiculous. For those who think this is ok, are you fine with PED's in sports? This is a factor of ten to that.
laws were put in place to give women the right to compete, not to give them an equal chance to win. Nothing changes when a trans person runs the race in terms of the right to compete.
I am fine with PEDs in sports. If modern science can make us healthier and run faster, then it should be allowed.
Laws were put in place to assure equality for women in sports. To now ignore those laws is ridiculous. For those who think this is ok, are you fine with PED's in sports? This is a factor of ten to that.
PEDs are already rampant in sports, so yes, if you are okay with the sport of running, you implicitly are with PEDs.
As for your “factor of ten”, that just got pulled out of you know where. Men in running only have a roughly 10% advantage and those in the know know that PEDs give you well over a 1% advantage (and probably closer to 5%) though no one knows exactly how much for each individual.
Transgender is real, trans people are real, and they do exist. I'm not going to get into weird biology debates about it. There are enough trans people throughout the course of history to prove that transgender is a real phenomenon. Trans people exist, intersex people exist etc.
I'm not as convinced about "non binary." That seems new, and arbitrary, and it seems like the rules around non binary are always bending and changing. If you want to identify that way, fine by me, but don't expect the whole world to bend to your whim.
I believe everyone deserves a world where they are treated with dignity and respect, and as a human being with value. That includes trans and non binary people. So: employment? You can't discriminate. If they can do the job they should have it. That goes for promotions too. Pronouns? Respect them. it's how people want to be referred to whether you agree with it or not. Especially if they stay in the realm of he, she and they. That's easy to do. Clothes?--let people wear what they want as long as they're covered up. Relationships?--let people do what they want as long as it's consensual. No bullying. No telling people they aren't who they say they are. No conversion therapy.
Medication? Puberty blockers? Surgery? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a medical practitioner, and most people who argue against access to these things aren't either. If it's not your body, or your child, then why do you care? Why is it your business what someone else chooses to do? That's private. You shouldn't busy yourself so much with it. Let people make their own choices and if they regret it, well is that your problem?
But here is where I draw the line. You can't enact policies that are blatantly unfair in the name of equality. Trans women, are women but they are biologically male. They have an unfair advantage in physical tests. Going from 172nd to 4th? This ain't it. This athlete should not be allowed to compete with cis girls.
Laws were put in place to assure equality for women in sports. To now ignore those laws is ridiculous. For those who think this is ok, are you fine with PED's in sports? This is a factor of ten to that.
Since you brought up PED, let me ask you this. How many HS athletes are subject to out of competition drug tests? If we believe HS sports should be taken more seriously than the Olympics, every HS athlete should be subject to out of competition, right?
If we don't believe HS sports need to be taken more seriously than the Olympics, why should HS sports have more exclusionary eligibility standard than the Olympics? Why are some people allowed to compete in the Olympics but not in HS sports, if indeed the Olympics are not less serious competition?
Transgender is real, trans people are real, and they do exist. I'm not going to get into weird biology debates about it. There are enough trans people throughout the course of history to prove that transgender is a real phenomenon. Trans people exist, intersex people exist etc.
I'm not as convinced about "non binary." That seems new, and arbitrary, and it seems like the rules around non binary are always bending and changing. If you want to identify that way, fine by me, but don't expect the whole world to bend to your whim.
I believe everyone deserves a world where they are treated with dignity and respect, and as a human being with value. That includes trans and non binary people. So: employment? You can't discriminate. If they can do the job they should have it. That goes for promotions too. Pronouns? Respect them. it's how people want to be referred to whether you agree with it or not. Especially if they stay in the realm of he, she and they. That's easy to do. Clothes?--let people wear what they want as long as they're covered up. Relationships?--let people do what they want as long as it's consensual. No bullying. No telling people they aren't who they say they are. No conversion therapy.
Medication? Puberty blockers? Surgery? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a medical practitioner, and most people who argue against access to these things aren't either. If it's not your body, or your child, then why do you care? Why is it your business what someone else chooses to do? That's private. You shouldn't busy yourself so much with it. Let people make their own choices and if they regret it, well is that your problem?
But here is where I draw the line. You can't enact policies that are blatantly unfair in the name of equality. Trans women, are women but they are biologically male. They have an unfair advantage in physical tests. Going from 172nd to 4th? This ain't it. This athlete should not be allowed to compete with cis girls.
“I’m not racist but…”
Jesus. Trans women have an unfair advantage in women's sports. no person of color has an unfair advantage when they compete in a category based on sex.
In a numerical answer, how many different gametes do humans have please? If your answer is more than two I hope you're ready for your Nobel prize 🏆
In a numerical answer, how many karyotypes exist in human? If your answer is two, I hope you are ready for your Ig Nobel prize.
I'm afraid you have failed, the question required a 'numerical' answer. Please ensure careful reading next time to ensure a chance at top marks. You've also somehow got negative marks for conflating karotypes (irrelevant) with gametes (relevant) when trying to ascertain the binary nature of sex. For what it's worth, the correct answer was "2".
Transgender is real, trans people are real, and they do exist. I'm not going to get into weird biology debates about it. There are enough trans people throughout the course of history to prove that transgender is a real phenomenon. Trans people exist, intersex people exist etc.
I'm not as convinced about "non binary." That seems new, and arbitrary, and it seems like the rules around non binary are always bending and changing. If you want to identify that way, fine by me, but don't expect the whole world to bend to your whim.
I believe everyone deserves a world where they are treated with dignity and respect, and as a human being with value. That includes trans and non binary people. So: employment? You can't discriminate. If they can do the job they should have it. That goes for promotions too. Pronouns? Respect them. it's how people want to be referred to whether you agree with it or not. Especially if they stay in the realm of he, she and they. That's easy to do. Clothes?--let people wear what they want as long as they're covered up. Relationships?--let people do what they want as long as it's consensual. No bullying. No telling people they aren't who they say they are. No conversion therapy.
Medication? Puberty blockers? Surgery? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a medical practitioner, and most people who argue against access to these things aren't either. If it's not your body, or your child, then why do you care? Why is it your business what someone else chooses to do? That's private. You shouldn't busy yourself so much with it. Let people make their own choices and if they regret it, well is that your problem?
But here is where I draw the line. You can't enact policies that are blatantly unfair in the name of equality. Trans women, are women but they are biologically male. They have an unfair advantage in physical tests. Going from 172nd to 4th? This ain't it. This athlete should not be allowed to compete with cis girls.
That was the longest “trans people deserve respect, but…” post I’ve ever read. Your acceptance of someone’s identity should not have to be conditional on the activity they are doing at a given moment. If someone tells me she is a woman in 100% of her daily life, then that includes when she is running.
Would you still refer to her as “she” on the cross country course?
actually it can and it does. There is a way to show respect and humanity to trans people while also standing against unfair policies in sports.
Jesus. Trans women have an unfair advantage in women's sports. no person of color has an unfair advantage when they compete in a category based on sex.
They don’t. You just are unaware of the current rules set by running’s worldwide regulatory body.
In a numerical answer, how many karyotypes exist in human? If your answer is two, I hope you are ready for your Ig Nobel prize.
I'm afraid you have failed, the question required a 'numerical' answer. Please ensure careful reading next time to ensure a chance at top marks. You've also somehow got negative marks for conflating karotypes (irrelevant) with gametes (relevant) when trying to ascertain the binary nature of sex. For what it's worth, the correct answer was "2".
Sounds like you think runners get on the track for reproductive activities.
In a numerical answer, how many different gametes do humans have please? If your answer is more than two I hope you're ready for your Nobel prize 🏆
In a numerical answer, how many karyotypes exist in human? If your answer is two, I hope you are ready for your Ig Nobel prize.
Huh? Kiltedrunner asked how many different gametes humans have, and you came back with an idiotic non sequitur - "how many karyotypes exist in humans?" - like it's some kind of clever gotcha.
This just goes to show ever more clearly that you can't provide any coherent arguments for your repeated ridiculous assertion that "human sex isn't binary." It also suggests you have no clue what gametes and karyotypes are.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
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