Why is Sebastian Coe's technique considered the best?

Look at Olef Beyer's muscles compared to Ovett and Coe in the 78 final. And the point is he never beat Coe or Ovett over 1500m, only that one race behind the iron curtain at 800m when we know he was juicing (whether he knew himself or not).

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/EC%201978.jpg

Coevett wrote:

We have no example as far as I'm aware of steroids benefiting Milers. In case you've forgotten, Coe was setting Mile and 1500m WRs days after breaking 800m WRs (and winning 1500m golds days after winning Olympic silvers in the 800m). Aouita was the first obvious doper who clearly was taking something/s that were enabling him to run fast times from 800m to 10000m. Likely it was blood doping in Italy and the new form of HGH that became available in the USA just at the precise time he started training there in 83/84 (and later told his Australian runners that HGH was the drug of choice if they wanted to compete with the best). HGH is not a steroid btw.

Hey...just wait a minute here! What proof do you have against Said Aouita? (there's absolutely no mention of any link or suspicion of doping in his Wikipedia page).

You keep postulating there's no evidence of British mid-d runners doping but yet you smear Aouita at every chance you get. Now he was likely "blood doping in Italy" and using a "new form of HGH." Look at Aouita's build - small & slender like's Coe. Does Aouita look like a runner on HGH, which can produce tremendous lean muscle mass? (similar to the photo you posted of that East German monster).

I think you might be jealous that Aouita was faster than Coe. Said Aouita was simply the best runner of that time period! His range was uncanny! He's Morocco's sportsman of the century! He had the best talent!

1/ He had a ridiculous career progression, running B races around the European circuit for several years with typical times of around 1:50 for 800m and 3:40 for 1500m. Within 1 year of moving to Italy (which was the center of European blood doping at the time) when he was approaching his mid-twenties he became one of the top 1500m runners in the world, setting the fastest time of the year. The next year, thinking that he didn't have much chance against Coe, Ovett and Cram at 1500m in LA, he ran the 5000m there, setting an Olympic record. The next year he broke the 1500m world record, then went on to break WRs at 5000 and 3000, while setting elite times at 800m and 10000m.

2/ From either 83 or 84 he also started winter training in the USA (not sure what was wrong with Morocco in the winter) where a new form of HGH was taking the doping scene by storm.

3/ He was chased out of Australia post-retirement when he took on a coaching role there and several of his athletes accused him of pressuring them to take PEDS, namely HGH which he allegedly told them was essential to take to compete at world level.

4/ His Belgian doctor/manager was charged with supplying EPO and other PEDs to numerous athletes and cyclists, many of whom failed tests. He was also managed briefly by Vincente Modahl, who was the husband of Dianne Modahl, the only British middle-distance runner to ever fail a drugs test.

5/ He is Moroccan, the first successful Moroccan middle-distance runner, followed by El G and a host of other runners from North Africa who could suddenly run sub 3:30/13:00 barely breaking sweat during the EPO era, and now can't to save their lives. Morocco must have the most failed drug tests of middle and long-distance runners than any other nation in history.

6/ He was a complete aggressive nutter, even by Arabic standards, often accusing his British rivals of being 'cheats', once stating his desire to 'blow' Steve Cram up, and other extraordinary statements that bear all the hallmarks of a mind ravaged by roids and other PEDs.

Aouita is king. Stop being racist against Moroccans, Coevett. Just because they are not white like your precious Coe, Cram, and Ovett doesn't mean they doped.

Aouita is one of the toughest MF'ers ever. The reason you don't like him is because he is considered by all to have one of the best ranges of all-time. He would have crushed Coe in his prime over 1500m.

No different than me saying Coe had access to the most resources on the planet as the golden child and was supplied with steroids (as many are aware) that helped him get back to form by '84. Keep up with the sport. It is all dirty.

I like Moroccan Runners wrote:

[quote]Coevett wrote:

I think you might be jealous that Aouita was faster than Coe. Said Aouita was simply the best runner of that time period! His range was uncanny! He's Morocco's sportsman of the century! He had the best talent!

Aouita was over 2 seconds slower than Coe over 800m. He was 2/10ths of a second faster than 30 year old Coe setting his best time in 86. Likely due to the PEDs (in particular HGH) Aouita enjoyed year after year of injury free seasons in which he tried to break the WR with every single race (high performance PEDs will allow you to do that, as El G etc discovered). Aouita dodged Coe and Cram repeatedly and lost to Cram the only time they raced both at their best.

Aouita has one Olympic gold at 5000m where his chief rival was a 35 year old John Walker who also was avoiding Coe, Cram, Ovett at 1500m. He never won a gold at 800 or 1500 or even won a significant race at either event. Coe has two Olympic golds at 1500m, and arguably the greatest ever middle-distance WR (his 1:41 800m).

You're right that his range was uncanny, uncanny like his career progression to the point of obvious PED use. Having said that, Ovett, Coe, Cram could have done the same, certainly if they were taking HGH etc. Cram ran 13:24 I think he was so injury ravaged he couldn't break 3:35 for the 1500m anymore. Ovett won global golds at 800, 1500 (counting the World Cup in 79 and 81 where he beat the best in the world apart from Coe) and 5000. He beat Henry Rono whose 'range' was better than Aouita's (and likely clean) and set a WR in the two miles when he was still moving up to the 1500m from 800m. Coe spent the winter of 84 training for a move up to 5000m yet started the season running faster than ever at 800m. Unfortunately, he injured his back early in the season, but it's easy to imagine that with that basic speed and the endurance training he could have threatened the 5000m WR in 85.

Sebastian Coe was a pure sprinter. He had the worst endurance we've ever seen from a sub-3:30 guy. He raced the 3000m about a dozen times in his career, never able to sub-7:54 and losing by big margins. He ran them in Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, just couldn't hold it together. At least Cram was able to run a decent 3000m and actually tried racing a 5000 and 10,000m. The one time Coe ran XC, he placed 21st at Cinque Mulini. Wow.

So let's keep the facts straight and keep Coe relegated to a pure mid-distance guy. 800/1500 and that's it. Aouita is not the same animal.

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/SebastianCoe.html

klj wrote:

Aouita is king. Stop being racist against Moroccans, Coevett. Just because they are not white like your precious Coe, Cram, and Ovett doesn't mean they doped.

Aouita is one of the toughest MF'ers ever. The reason you don't like him is because he is considered by all to have one of the best ranges of all-time. He would have crushed Coe in his prime over 1500m.

+1

skj wrote:

Sebastian Coe was a pure sprinter. He had the worst endurance we've ever seen from a sub-3:30 guy. He raced the 3000m about a dozen times in his career, never able to sub-7:54 and losing by big margins. He ran them in Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, just couldn't hold it together. At least Cram was able to run a decent 3000m and actually tried racing a 5000 and 10,000m. The one time Coe ran XC, he placed 21st at Cinque Mulini. Wow.

So let's keep the facts straight and keep Coe relegated to a pure mid-distance guy. 800/1500 and that's it. Aouita is not the same animal.

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/SebastianCoe.html

Insanity on this board knows no boards.

Erm, don't you think being able to run 1:41 800m sort of makes up for it?

Yeah, Coe was a total failure. What a disgrace his career was. I don't know how he gets out of bed or looks at himself in the mirror. Meanwhile you can pass the overweight guy in the suit on your morning jog and look at him smugly.

I would never criticise any great runner who wasn't an obvious cheat, and Aouita was a doped up cheat who couldn't break 1:50/3:40/14:00 before he started seeing the right doctors.

klj wrote:

Aouita is king. Stop being racist against Moroccans, Coevett. Just because they are not white like your precious Coe, Cram, and Ovett doesn't mean they doped.

Aouita is one of the toughest MF'ers ever. The reason you don't like him is because he is considered by all to have one of the best ranges of all-time. He would have crushed Coe in his prime over 1500m.

No different than me saying Coe had access to the most resources on the planet as the golden child and was supplied with steroids (as many are aware) that helped him get back to form by '84. Keep up with the sport. It is all dirty.

The above post is exactly the reason why Morocco should be barred from all sporting competitions for the next 100 years.

Aouita dodged Coe in his prime and was a shadow of Coe at Zurich post LA. Coe would have absolutely crushed Aouita that night, as in LA, even with Aouita juiced to the gills as he was.

Coe was supplied with steroids yet he was clearly better in the 1500m than the 800m in 84, LOL.

Mohammed Mourhit, training partner of Said Aouita, suspended in 2003 after failing doping test.

How many training partners of Seb Coe failed drug tests? None. How many training partners of Aouita failed tests? At least one. How many doctors or coaches of Coe were involved in doping controversies? None. How many doctors or coaches of Aouita were involved in doping controversies? At least two. How many times have athletes alleged that Coe urged them to take performance enhancing drugs as the only way to win? None. How many times have athletes alleged that Aouita urged them to take PEDs as the only way to win? At least three.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/01/sports/belgian-record-breaker-with-moroccan-roots.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2003-05-22/mourhit-suspended-until-may-2004-report/1858206

I also forgot to mention that Aouita got the job as coach of Australian athletics because he lied about coaching El G and turning him from a 3:40 runner into a 3:26:00 man.

LOL. This is like listening to a Lance fanboi in 2005. I applaud your mental gymnastics. Please end all posts with a rendition of God Save the Queen and a single tear for your great nation.

hmm. wrote:

LOL. This is like listening to a Lance fanboi in 2005. I applaud your mental gymnastics. Please end all posts with a rendition of God Save the Queen and a single tear for your great nation.

What 'mental gymnastics' are these then? Training partners doping, coaches/doctors supplying peds, athletes accusing him of urging them to use peds - meanwhile the most incredible career progression in track history. And it's mental gymnastics not to assume that everybody is as dirty as him/moroccans?

Coevett wrote:

No, it's about how often ordinary people reported that they had been invited to pay bribes to police etc. Switzerland might be immoral in allowing foreign individuals (often African politicians and such) to store their money there tax free, but that's not corruption so long as it's legal. You really must have your head up your behind if you don't think there is more day to day corruption at a basic level in Third World countries than Europe. Have you traveled in Third World countries?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/05/24/average-city-dweller-kenya-pays-16-bribes-month/84853256/

No, it is about perception of corruption and it is not a measure of the absolute corruption in a country. You seem to have a hard time undetstanding that point, maybe because you are blinded by prejudice. Anyone with an iota of common sense will understand that Switerland's (and the City if London's) financial insititutions are corrupt on a very large scale, saying they are "legal" is akin to sweeping positive drugs tests under the carpet and claiming the athlete never failed a drugs test or covering up the drugs test result with some BS excuse: see Armstrong, Froome, Radcliffe etc.

Having to to pay some cop in Kenya a few dollars to avoid a parking ticket is not the same level of corruption as chanelling billions of dollars from criminals into a corrupt financial system - it just means that corruption in the latter is better hidden and hence the difference in perception by Joe Public in the level of corruption:

What has Switzerland's banking system got to do with the likelihood of individual Kenyan runners propensity to cheat and have it permitted or covered up by authorities there? Isn't the fact that the average Kenyan pays 16 bribes a month to policeman a little more relevant? Moron.

hmm. wrote:

LOL. This is like listening to a Lance fanboi in 2005.

There is a slight difference in the magnitude of evidence when one contrasts the case against Lance Armstrong to the case against Sebastian Coe. The Reasoned Decision-document by the USADA from 2012 against Lance Armstrong runs some 202 pages with 843 references, but thus far the case that Coe used transfusions and anabolic steroids can be summarized in three words:

Coe was fast.

hmm. wrote:

LOL. This is like listening to a Lance fanboi in 2005. I applaud your mental gymnastics. Please end all posts with a rendition of God Save the Queen and a single tear for your great nation.

Although British born, I'm not much of a fan of Britain and have permanently moved abroad. I've never gone full lefty self-hating retard though, and can recognize that British middle-distance running (and the great history of European/American/Oceanic running) is something we can be proud of.

Aragon wrote:

hmm. wrote:

LOL. This is like listening to a Lance fanboi in 2005.

There is a slight difference in the magnitude of evidence when one contrasts the case against Lance Armstrong to the case against Sebastian Coe. The Reasoned Decision-document by the USADA from 2012 against Lance Armstrong runs some 202 pages with 843 references, but thus far the case that Coe used transfusions and anabolic steroids can be summarized in three words:

Coe was fast.

+1

Unless you saw that the Stasi files on Beyer and Straub showed blood doping and steroid use then you being "pretty sure both were blood doping" is about as valid as other posters being pretty sure that Coe was blood doping.

Beyer suffered a serious foot injury soon after Prague which required surgery in 1979 and that was pretty much career ending in terms of being able to train at his highest level. He would have had a great chance to win the 800m in Moscow. He is a very intelligent guy and teaches maths and physics today which suggests that he has lived a much more balanced life than Coe/Cram and Ovett who have little to answer for themselves outside of sports. Some would argue that this would have meant more pressure on them to dope. At the end of the day Beyer won fair and square in Prague and was younger than Coe and Ovett with less training under his belt. Another argument for Beyer is that he still competes today showing that he ran for the love of the sport itself suggesting less intrinsic motivation to dope:

And that's NOT mental gymnastics??? LOL! No, Coe wasn't under a state sponsored doping program run by a Marxist British government in the 70's and 80's in a society in which 1 in 4 of the population were police informers. I don't have to personally see a Stasi file that others have seen to believe that Beyer was far more likely to be doping than Coe. We know that the East Germans were doping their athletes since pre-puberty, many of them have since successfully sued as they are still living with the physical and psychological consequencecs.

I'm not going to contribute to this thread again. Some of you guys really are completely utterly insane. Do you realize the kind of people you're defending? Brutal Marxist police states, North African cheats who urged his athletes to take drugs and arguably set in motion the great African epodemic which has brought our sport to its knees. What psychological issues you must have been cursed with in your childhood. Probably bullied at your white only public school which was paid for by your Swiss banker parents or something. Now you spew Cultural Marxist filth online all day while your Polish maid works for £3 an hour 70 hours a week.