ryan foreman wrote:
I just want to say I stand corrected.
Again... (sigh).
ryan foreman wrote:
I just want to say I stand corrected.
Again... (sigh).
xenonscreams wrote:
What do you mean by "game the medical profession"? Like what specific example are you referring to?
What do I mean? I mean giving people prescription drugs they haven't been told to take by their doctors, telling them to take different doses/mixtures of corticosteroids than told by the doctors, having specific doctors/endicrinologists to go see when an athlete's normal doctor won't write the prescription.
Rme wrote:
Allergy shots need to be given by an allergy technician.....a person could have an allergic reaction and die. There is no way alberto or staff could give the shots. No doctor in his right mind would give alberto allergy shots to give.
It's only a recommendation that they are given by a technician, not a law. There are many allergists that ignore this recommendation and allow people to give them to themselves at home.
OK, but.. wrote:
xenonscreams wrote:Galen Rupp probably has a lot of allergies so they don't all fit in one vial. I get two shots every week. One in my left arm and one in my right arm. This is because I have an absurd number of allergies. Two vials is pretty standard for people with a lot of allergies.
It sounds to me like they were labeled. One went in one arm and the other went in the other arm.... Pretty standard
OK, so as mentioned above, why wouldn't they be labeled 'L' and 'R'?
Not sure if this was answered yet, but I get two shots and they actually try to alternate which serum goes in which arm, so 'L' and 'R' would not be on a typical allergy shot label.
Not defending NOP and the many allegations, just clarifying, as others have, that the allergy shots could be nothing more than allergy shots.
On a bigger note, the absence of a response from Alberto speaks volumes in my opinion. It does not look good.
Michael stipe wrote:
Salazar should be fired without question for endangering the lives of athletes. He's messing with drugs with real side effects. Particularly thyroid. It's dangerous.
His go to doctors need to be investigated, too.
My wife is a doc and when I tell her these stories about sharing prescriptions and passing thyroid medication around she is genuinely horrified and she couldn't give two shits about running. It puts things in perspective.
The doping is only icing on the cake.
It would be nice if there were Federal laws with real felony classifications and low enough standards of evidence to get convictions. We know the sports federations are enabling doping and in this case, USATF seems to support Nike/Al Sal. We know USA Cycling was integral in Armstrong/USPS mandatory team doping.
No one is minding the integrity of sports.
NCAA and USOC/IOC would spend big money to gut them so they are as meaningless as the current laws. Many viewers support doping, so the current situation will likely continue.
xenonscreams wrote:
Alberto Salazar will do anything he perceives as legal to win, although his definition of legal sometimes goes against the "spirit of the sport" and is therefore not actually legal in those circumstances
xenonscreams wrote:
I want to learn more about the Androgel and think it warrants an investigation, although I have a lot of trouble believing anything John Stiner says, even though I've heard he's an honest guy
xenonscreams wrote:
It's only a recommendation that they are given by a technician, not a law. There are many allergists that ignore this recommendation and allow people to give them to themselves at home.
These and other statements add up to someone whose opinion cannot be taken seriously. You don't WANT this to be a huge issue because that would suck for a lot of people, therefore it must NOT be a huge issue (= emotional reasoning). As a result, factors that others see as tremendously incriminating you dismiss as "meh.......I wanna know more." Not sure what your investment is but it's there.
You can skip the part now where you retort with "Look I SAID he was probably maybe a little bit guilty of a little wrongdoing"......anyone who's been following is well aware of your wishy washy concessions to the real world.
xenonscreams wrote:
KMB wrote:This makes sense, in the sense that it doesn't make any sense at all. (Just my two sense.)
Your opinion, reduced to a single sentence, seems to be, "Salazar may be stretching the ethics of sport to the limit, but based on what's now known, hasn't actually broken any rules." You go on to support this opinion by noting that there's no evidence that Salazar has provided anyone with EPO or hGH (thereby moving the bar for what constitutes "cheating" to a height that included only the starkest examples of rule-breaking) and also by noting that you think more research on a possible link between low T4 and heavy training needs to be done before such a link can be rules out.
Let me ask you this: Do you think it's ethical for a coach to hand out thyroid hormone like candy in advance of this research -- as if the default position is, "Well, no one has ruled out such a connection?" Because that is not the way sound medical research and medical practice work. According to available data, there is no established causative link between heavy endurance training and underactive thyroid glands. You may propose that this body of research is wrong for whatever reason, but it's what we have for now. Anyone who unilaterally decides to hand out thyroid hormone to athletes "just in case" is behaving in a way that is speculative at the very best and hopelessly irresponsible at worst.
I remind you that thyroid hormone, every type, is a prescription medication.
"I think the allergy shots are allergy shots and don't see anything unusual about them other than the lack of a label..."
Sorry, but this is very much akin to saying that you don't see anything unusual about that elephant except for the lack of a trunk, tusks and big flappy ears.
I have friends who say that John Stiner would never lie even though he is "abrasive." Unfortunately, I've only ever encountered the abrasive side of him, so save for my friends' opinions, I have no reason to believe him. Because I trust my friends, I'm trying. But it was pretty much the last name I wanted to see associated with a leak. I wish it had been someone I had never heard of.
I'm pretty sure I said that he violates "spirit of the sport" which means he has broken rules. I call that out as illegal. I think that he thinks what he's doing is legal. It's a matter of whether or not I can empathize, not whether or not he's breaking any rules. Posters here are trying to polarize everyone into pro-Nike or anti-Nike but many of us probably do not view all doping cases the same way (there are varying degrees of unethical). Please actually read what I write and then try again.
Here's the thing, Al Sal has already been caught in a lie about being Slaney's coach. It is well documented in his book even that he coached her. Salazar is also known for being an abrasive hot head. From the Bumbi DQ to various other stories about him. He also has said that his athletes just take vitamin D and no other supplements but now he says they take Testoboost ( or whatever it's called).
So you have to convince yourself to believe Stiner because he's "abrasive" yet you have no problem believing Salazar who has outed himself as a liar and is also abrasive?
It's not making a lot of sense to me.
You will never convince xenonscreams about anything she hasn't already decided in her little head. She is a millennial who already knows everything there is to know, but she need medication to live, and needs to American Disability Act to get herself a private office space that her peers at work are not allowed to have. She isolates herself from others. That is her way of handling outside stress, plus the drugs she needs to take.
It is best to simply ignore xenoncreams.
Kind of like this one.....http://captiongenerator.com/13377/Behind-the-Scenes-2014-USATF-Indoors
Bad Wigins wrote:
Krebs: You sent Stiner to clean up when you left the hotel here (points at map) to board the plane here and return here to Portland. He has made public the bottle of Androgel he found.
Hitler: That's old news. I already explained it was for my heart.
Krebs: Mein Fuhrer... Stiner...
Jodl: Stiner also reported finding two vials of liquid in the fridge and a bag of syringes.
Hitler: (removes glasses, prepares to rant)
Yeah but mine actually features Stiner
Someone has to make this one
yuiop wrote:
OK, but.. wrote:OK, so as mentioned above, why wouldn't they be labeled 'L' and 'R'?
Not sure if this was answered yet, but I get two shots and they actually try to alternate which serum goes in which arm, so 'L' and 'R' would not be on a typical allergy shot label.
In that case I'd have thought it more reason to have them labeled 'L' and 'R', otherwise how do they know?
ah...so much crap to respond to, to so many posers...first off, I have been good friends with Stiner for the past 15 years...i can vouch for his honesty, authenticity and yes, his 'abrasiveness' which is his passion to the sport, to which he has dedicated his career - helping others of all abilities to achieve their goals. (he coached me one indoor season and gave nothing but sound advice, all along Jack Daniels guidelines) He literally walked in to this un-solicited, un-expected bag of needles and mess with perhaps some naiviety, given his life-long admiration for the Great AlSal...but this whole episode has haunted him for the past 7 years and i give him huge kudos for speaking up, against someone he loved, cherished and respected...but then questioned. Stiner confirmed to me that he received Zero compensation for his testimony. And as for RunnerGirl's comments about Stiner's Ex wife Sarah...--with all due respect to her, in the past 10 years since i met her, she has changed her last name 3 times...Kramer, Stiner, Allers...so her last name has no relevancy here to Stiner's statements, period. One last contention, which no one has yet mentioned in this thread, or perhaps i missed...not only did AlSal and Rupp flee the scene leaving behind a wallet $$, video toys and vials, but what about the observation that they shared a room? hello? does this not ring odd? Given Lauren Fleshman's recent statements today about her phony asthma tests, dosage and then thyroid medications a la doc Albuterol, I reaffirm Stiner's message and motive.
ah...so much crap to respond to, to so many posers...first off, I have been good friends with Stiner for the past 15 years...i can vouch for his honesty, authenticity and yes, his 'abrasiveness' which is his passion to the sport, to which he has dedicated his career - helping others of all abilities to achieve their goals. (he coached me one indoor season and gave nothing but sound advice, all along Jack Daniels guidelines) He literally walked in to this un-solicited, un-expected bag of needles and mess with perhaps some naiviety, given his life-long admiration for the Great AlSal...but this whole episode has haunted him for the past 7 years and i give him huge kudos for speaking up, against someone he loved, cherished and respected...but then questioned. Stiner confirmed to me that he received Zero compensation for his testimony. And as for RunnerGirl's comments about Stiner's Ex wife Sarah...--with all due respect to her, in the past 10 years since i met her, she has changed her last name 3 times...Kramer, Stiner, Allers...so her last name has no relevancy here to Stiner's statements, period. One last contention, which no one has yet mentioned in this thread, or perhaps i missed...not only did AlSal and Rupp flee the scene leaving behind a wallet $$, video toys and vials, but what about the observation that they shared a room? hello? does this not ring odd? Given Lauren Fleshman's recent statements today about her phony asthma tests, dosage and then thyroid medications a la doc Albuterol, I reaffirm Stiner's message and motive.
suzyQ29 wrote:
ah...so much crap to respond to, to so many posers...
Nice post but unless you identify yourself then it just becomes more of the same "crap" you've responded to and you become just another poser. Sorry.
suzyQ29 wrote:
not only did AlSal and Rupp flee the scene leaving behind a wallet $$, video toys and vials, but what about the observation that they shared a room? hello? does this not ring odd?
I don't get this bit, what are you implying?, why don't you just say what you mean?
suzyQ29 wrote:
And as for RunnerGirl's comments about Stiner's Ex wife Sarah...--with all due respect to her, in the past 10 years since i met her, she has changed her last name 3 times...Kramer, Stiner, Allers...so her last name has no relevancy here to Stiner's statements, period.
and wtf is this all about "her last name has no relevancy here " so whats the relevance of mentioning it?
did you even read that former post by runnergirl to which i referred? she made a ridiculous statement about the fact that sarah was his "ex" and no longer used his last name, as if that had any relevancy to the truth of Stiner's statments....to which i responded that actually all 3 of her last names in the past 10 years had no relevancy to what Stiner stated.
no I didn't read it
so you're both posting irrelevant crap
- and how should i identify myself - by my real name, like all of you have (not)? sure, i have no 'qualms' about that, i have nothing to hide - my name is Suzanne Myette and feel free to email me directly about anything of this. My email is trimyette@aol.com.
I have stated my full name and email address.