First transgender athlete June Eastwood to compete in women’s DI XC this fall, has pbs of 1:55/3:50/14:38

TrackGirl wrote:

Very interesting article.

However, upon close reading, it noticed the following.

The NCAA transgender handbook states that an MTF transgender athlete must undergo “one calendar year of testosterone suppression treatment” in order to compete in the women’s category.

A calendar year is the one-year period between January 1 and December 31, based on the Gregorian calendar.

That calendar year can't be 2018, because he was still competing in May 2018 as a man. It can't be 2019 either, because it isn't December 31 yet.

Conclusion: Jonathan hasn't undergone one calendar year of testosterone suppression, so he isn't in compliance but is actually cheating.

your definition of a "calendar year" is incorrect. it can mean that, but it can also just mean "the amount of time between corresponding dates in adjacent years", used to differentiate from just "365 days" in the case of leap years and whatnot in legal jargon.

besides, your other two conditions aren't mutually exclusive. June could have began taking T suppression while competing in her final winter/spring season on the man's team. there is no rule against that.

Yessiree Bob wrote:

recreational jogger53 wrote:

This is how asinine our local politicians have become; to allow males to become "legally" female without thinking through the implications and fallout of this consequence.

Imagine if you can change your ethnicity from one to another. Suppose someone of Asian background wants to become European. All this person needs to do is change their physical appearance, i.e. blue eyes, eyelids, nose, face and submit a form to the local government and now you are legally European.

Now think about that. That is the equivalent of a male transgender being a "legal" female.

We then might as well have laws that allow you to change your ethnicity as well!

Please. No one is changing their ethnicity, and the comparison is spurious. At least try to formulate a decent argument.

My point still stands. There is no difference. And as for you saying that no one is changing their ethnicity , last time I looked I have seen a lot of cosmetic surgeries performed in the East for people wanting to look Caucasian.

recreational jogger53 wrote:

Yessiree Bob wrote:

Please. No one is changing their ethnicity, and the comparison is spurious. At least try to formulate a decent argument.

My point still stands. There is no difference. And as for you saying that no one is changing their ethnicity , last time I looked I have seen a lot of cosmetic surgeries performed in the East for people wanting to look Caucasian.

Should have added that here in the states eyelid surgery is a very common.

recreational jogger53 wrote:

recreational jogger53 wrote:

My point still stands. There is no difference. And as for you saying that no one is changing their ethnicity , last time I looked I have seen a lot of cosmetic surgeries performed in the East for people wanting to look Caucasian.

Should have added that here in the states eyelid surgery is a very common.

the difference is that we do not segregate sport based on race or ethnicity, no thanks to people like you who have been setting us back for decades. if you have existential questions about what it means to be a certain race, take them elsewhere because this thread is about distance running.

Fake news. The legal definition is very clear. Otherwise the NCAA would have stipulated "one year of testosterone suppression treatment", not "one calender year":

Jonathan is violating the rules. Not that he cares, otherwise he wouldn't wish to compete as a man against women.

But in other areas of life, race matters. Due to affirmative action, blacks have it way easier to enter a college than Asians.

People like Rachel Dolezal or Elizabeth Warren have built a career by faking their race. They are transracial, just like Jonathan is transgender. Both are of course deluded, but transgenders are celebrated, while transracial people are being ridiculed. Why the difference?

It's suddenly clear where the trolls are coming from. They were recruited by Jonathan's GF. She seems deluded too, believing you can be a lesbian while your partner has a dick. They label any dissenting website as a "hate group". https://i.imgur.com/MM5DB5R.png African-American studies, Planned Parenthood, women’s, gender, and sexuality studies, the Salish and Kalispel people, enslaved Africans... they really tick all the boxes. Only a sponsorship by the Clinton Foundation is missing.

If anything, this will be the most-watched Clash of the Inland Northwest Women's race ever!

Being tall is not an advantage in running; being male is. But men are generally taller than women, as well as being bigger and stronger, having more muscles with lower body fat percentage. That is what the study shows, and is obvious at any elite race meet.

I'm cheering for June Eastwood because:

1) Seems like a nice, quality person and kinda cute.

2) It will enrage you idiots even more.

You all don't care about the fairness of women's sports. Considering how sexist this place is, you all probably care much about women in general. Basically any type of post around here with a feminist tinge is heavily ridiculed.

What you really don't like is transgender people. That's what this is all about.

He has no business running in a women's race even if taking testosterone reducing drugs.

Speak for yourself.

Let me squash some stereotypes please.

I care about females, have raised two daughters with respect,quality education and ability to think for a support themselves.

I am not a conservative, even in the slightest way, coming from a group that was 'legally marginalised', I have always been anti conservative and fighting for the underdog and still do, but all this crap about this being a liberal agenda is rubbish

I don't care how people want to label themselves sexually, there are gay people I call friends, ones I admire and many I detest...you don't 'have to' like people, 'just because'.

However, at the moment, the only naturally fair way to demarcate boundaries as far as athletics is concerned is to have two sexually distinct groups, as determined by the pot luck of what sex you are born as, XX or XY. Either that or no distinction at all, won't affect me as a male, but will be unfair to females because, because despite all the rubbish about 'equality' etc, we are not 'equal' physically

The range of physical performance is distinctly different between sexes, though overlapping, but distinctly different.

Transgender people, whatever the hormonal treatment given are not in the performance band of their chosen gender, and do not lose all the physical attributes they may have been endowed with due to the birth sex

It is just nonsense to allow people like Eastwood in particular, a sexual male athlete in past, to simply switch gender, pop some pills and compete with sexual females. It is embarrassing and disrespectful to the females who put in years of training with less endowed performance attributes

People like Caster, with whom their has been sexual organ conjecture, but without a doubt is still a sexual (XY) male, there is more confusion with the chosen gender, but still, he/she is still benefiting from the performance attributes endowed as a sexual (XY) male.

I may not be conservative, and support most liberal endeavours, but that doesn't mean we are PC and can't distinguish what a duck looks like

cheers

RoJo/Gault: if you're keeping up on this, a suggestion. The article reads "and recently transitioned to female..."

May I suggest it might be more accurate to state "has begun transitioning to female." The "ed" at the end of the word "transition" suggests that the process is complete. This couldn't be further from the truth, as far as we know. Thus, "begun transitioning..." is a much more accurate descriptor of the events in play, at the moment.

thanks!

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

recreational jogger53 wrote:

Should have added that here in the states eyelid surgery is a very common.

the difference is that we do not segregate sport based on race or ethnicity, no thanks to people like you who have been setting us back for decades. if you have existential questions about what it means to be a certain race, take them elsewhere because this thread is about distance running.

So rather than address my point you scuttle away and throw "this thread is about distance running".

Well, no it is not. It is about a transgender who thinks he can pass for a female as a collegiate runner.

I can use the same argument and demand that I can change my ethnicity from Asian to Caucasian based on cosmetic surgery.

Check mate.

trackgirl, this argument is provably false on two counts and you only (falsely) answered my first one with no response to the second, perhaps because you know that there is no defense. this has already been covered to death back when CeCe was competing, evidently you were not present for those discussions when we confirmed the meaning of the rule directly with ncaa officials. there is no serious doubt in the minds of LRC staff and Shaylee Ragar that June has followed the current regs as they stand, and your constant crap flinging is a total last-ditch (losing) partisan hack attempt to destroy the future of women's sport.

what we really should be talking about, and what you so badly want to deflect the conversation away from, is the fact that we *need* to change the ncaa regulations to require specific T and E levels with verification. but again, rather than fixing problems you'd rather cry all day about totally irrelevant and meaningless wars on words.

please point to even one place where i have ever "celebrated" transgender people or "ridiculed" rachel dolezal. guess what, rather than living in a fantasy world where everyone acts like talking heads on the mainstream media you love to consume every day, in the real world we act like human beings and treat people like people, not objects of a class to be celebrated or ridiculed. please, trackgirl, turn off the TV for once and come to reality where transgender people exist and are functioning members of society. they've been around for much longer than you think with no issues from people who actually interact with them daily.

Mike Rozzi, when the going gets tough for you with no response to any of my previous comments despite my direct refutation to your points, you call me a troll and prove me right by doxxing and harassing all who oppose your views, with no condemnation for the relentless doxxing of Chloe Vieria on the web via her private facebook photos. well guess what: on this website, Dijon Gebremustard is not bought or sold. if you were a real fan of the sport, you would know that already, but how could i expect that from someone who admits he wants to destroy women's sport and has admitted himself to get cucked by his wife on the daily per p14.

wow, you really could not be more deluded about this issue. the new "gender critical" left is the single biggest threat to trans inclusion. the fake PC outrage of the far right on this issue is so temporary that it may as well not exist, and it only serves to muddy the waters to uplift brainwashed people like you.

yes, i agree with you of course. men are obviously taller than women. my point though is that height is not causally linked with increased performance in distance running (in fact experience as a track fan shows the opposite to be true) -- the causal link here is testosterone, and that's what the ncaa policy needs to establish with concrete T+E guidelines and a system of verification.

i agree with you about jonathan, but june is a woman with female levels of T and E. she runs in the women's race because she is a woman, per common sense.

congrats, I am Sam, you are a mainstream liberal and you represent all the PC cancer that comes from that side of the isle. you're very brave for coming out like this to a crowd of supporters that will kiss your behind at all costs while dissenting opinions are harassed and doxxed.

aside from totally discounting hyperandrogenous people (born with XX but producing extra testosterone, for example) this distinction shows that you were successfully brainwashed by the semenya camp to think that chromosomes are the answer to the transgender competition issue rather than the actual answer, testosterone.

please, oh sam, list even one "physical attribute" that actually helps in distance running. hint: "bone density" isn't the answer, and neither is height which actually slows you down from the extra weight. it's almost as if there was a chemical that distinguishes men from women, one that is so powerful in running that its levels must be regulated and that june has already reduced to female levels...

ah, there it is. definite proof that you have been brainwashed by Semenya and her lawyers that "testosterone doesn't impact athletic performance at all" when you and i both know that was never true.

for the purposes of inclusion in races, the "transition" should start and end with having normal female levels of T and E, which June has already done.

jogger53, what exactly are you trying to prove? that this thread isn't about distance running but instead about your bizarre tirades? that your feelings about June's gender disqualify her from competing in races, despite the objective T and E level facts proving otherwise? funny how you accuse others of assuming when your posts are so wildly off topic and speculative that any rational person has to make leaps and bounds over gaps of understanding to understand even the most basic premises of your arguments.

june looks like a woman, talks like a woman, walks like a woman, and evidently per her recent workouts which show her to be in ~17 minute 5K shape, she runs like a woman as well. if you want to live your life as you choose, nobody is out here trying to give a single d a m n about what you do, and the fact that you totally falsely think everyone here is out to get you proves that you have a victimhood complex of the highest degree. please, update us in great detail on how your journey goes along the way in the replies here.

What a joke!!! PC running amok.

Feel free to post proof of these "normal female levels." For all we know, the pills could have been flushed down the toilet every day. Without a third party ensuring that those "normal female levels" were indeed reached, all we have is speculation, including you. However, if you provide proof, I'll gladly eat crow. FYI, some workouts posted on a tracking website is *not* proof.

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

i agree with you about jonathan, but june is a woman with female levels of T and E. she runs in the women's race because she is a woman, per common sense.

not my real name wrote:

RoJo/Gault: if you're keeping up on this, a suggestion. The article reads "and recently transitioned to female..."

May I suggest it might be more accurate to state "has begun transitioning to female." The "ed" at the end of the word "transition" suggests that the process is complete. This couldn't be further from the truth, as far as we know. Thus, "begun transitioning..." is a much more accurate descriptor of the events in play, at the moment.

thanks!

for the purposes of inclusion in races, the "transition" should start and end with having normal female levels of T and E, which June has already done.

i couldn't agree more. funny to see all these PC leftists pretending that they're "breaking from their party" in excluding trans people when they don't realize that their views are actually the mainstream left position and they are cowards for not standing up over party lines. common sense says that women like june with female levels of T+E should compete in the women's division and not the men's division, yet PC and fake outrage culture has taken hold in this thread absent all logic, reasoning, and basic facts.

yes, not my real name, you are on the same page as me and everyone rational on this. i agree with you 100% that our most important priority should be to get the ncaa to publish concrete t+e limits and a method of strict verification to ensure compliance. rather than actually trying to get to the meat of the issue like you and me, others just can't stop complaining about fake issues like what bathroom june will use or using every opportunity possible to dox people like you and me, total distractions.

by the way, i just looked up the post in mike rozzi's image. it truly brightens my day to know that 16 people so far have volunteered their time to read my letsrun posts and to send screenshots of me saying Mike Rozzi is getting cucked by his wife directly to june eastwood's inbox. just to add one more to the report, Mike Rozzi is getting cucked by his wife, thank you brave volunteers.

I am Sam wrote:

I am not a conservative, even in the slightest way, coming from a group that was 'legally marginalised', I have always been anti conservative and fighting for the underdog and still do, but all this crap about this being a liberal agenda is rubbish

Jonathan is a liberal, his supporters are liberals, the transgender movement is liberal, Pelosi wants to make it a civil right to identify however you want in sports. Trump has spoken out about this, conservatives are fighting back to protect women's sports.

So yes, this is a liberal agenda.

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

for the purposes of inclusion in races, the "transition" should start and end with having normal female levels of T and E, which June has already done.

This looks like confirmation that this poster is indeed a paid troll, recruited by Jonathan.

Jonathan hasn't done a full transition. He still has a dick and testicles producing testosterone. He doesn't have breasts or anything even resembling a vagina.

There is no proof that he has female levels of testosterone. We can't just take his word for it, because we know he is already lying about his sex.

Even if he temporarily acquired female levels of testosterone, he would still take a spot away from a girl, which is completely wrong.

Reducing testosterone does not eradicate the multiple physiological advantages that come from being male.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/59289-why-men-run-faster-than-women.html