Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

Timing Matt wrote:

From that video, his virtue and perspicacity rivals a certain Philadelphian who so bravely chastised a school principal for not understanding the uplifting message intrinsic for the kids in observing their dad persevere from mile to mile in the great Boston Marathon.

Nice name avoidance there, which these days, if included, would for some reason or other mean the post would be deleted.

If it's really you, GD, you will know the answer... wrote:

[quote]The Stone Cutter wrote:

I am a regular poster on the weekly Road Racing and Training Thread. As I documented several weeks ago in that thread, I too, raced the Adrenaline 5k. I can 100% attest that Gene was there through eye witness account.

I can also vouch that, even had I not seen him personally, only an attendee of that race could supply the information that he did: the wheelchair runners were (at the very last minute) lined up specifically to the right side of the start; the race results were posted on the courtyard brick wall on the right side; etc.

The guy posting is Gene.

Are you 100% sure? ?

Great post.

Gene's splits were, for all intents and purposes, metronomic. If you disregard the slight fade over for the last 5k, the slowest 5k and fastest 5k were only seven seconds apart.

For Dr. Meza, his splits over the years -- not just in the same race, but over the same sections of the course in different years -- makes his defenders' claim that the splits are normal based on elevation changes a dubious one.

A 5K split of a minute faster than average pace, late in a PR is barely possible for an experienced, older runner. Cheater.

Absolutely correct, history may judge Mr. M kindly but his conscience won't...

Nobody told me that posts on this thread would be so amusing! Everybody is entitled to an opinion, of course, but cutting back on ultras isn't going to happen any time soon. I have three tough ones in a four week span coming up in May.

Don’t ever change, man!

jesseriley wrote:

A 5K split of a minute faster than average pace, late in a PR is barely possible for an experienced, older runner. Cheater.

Are the splits possible for runners on TRT? I have the feeling some Masters are on TRT prescriptions and don't realize you need a TUE to compete legitimately. I'm not saying that's the case here. I don't know.

But would being able to do extreme surges in marathon be more possible by a hypothetical runner on TRT?

JustGene wrote:

Nobody told me that posts on this thread would be so amusing! Everybody is entitled to an opinion, of course, but cutting back on ultras isn't going to happen any time soon. I have three tough ones in a four week span coming up in May.

Gene -Keep doing your ultras -that is what has worked for you, and the variety of trails used in ultras offers respite, instead of the simple pounding of road racing, which gets old after a while.

Gene, many of us here are surprised that you do not concede that F.M's splits are quasi impossible to believe. You mention uphill and downhill gradients, but the splits still are too outlandish to accept.

I think you do not know the good Doc on a personal level, but hopefully this whole saga will be cleared up in the coming weeks.

Ghost in China

Thread has gone cold.

Hopefully the full truth will be revealed soon.

Ghost in China

Hypothetical Question wrote:

jesseriley wrote:

A 5K split of a minute faster than average pace, late in a PR is barely possible for an experienced, older runner. Cheater.

Are the splits possible for runners on TRT? I have the feeling some Masters are on TRT prescriptions and don't realize you need a TUE to compete legitimately. I'm not saying that's the case here. I don't know.

But would being able to do extreme surges in marathon be more possible by a hypothetical runner on TRT?

TRT is more likely to allow an old athlete to recover. Say from multiple hard ultras in a short period of time.

Cheaters never stop.

Is this guy even a real MD?

Probably falsified too.

Is he even a US citizen?

Hmmm....cheater.

jesseriley wrote:

A 5K split of a minute faster than average pace, late in a PR is barely possible for an experienced, older runner. Cheater.

Huh??? Perhaps a 5K split a minute slower than average pace, late in a PR would be a better strategy coach?

Ten days ago on this thread I was 60/40% in favor of legit running, now I am at 80% likelihood of monkey business. So sad if true.

Gene, seems they have alot of people with major jealousy. Good luck next week in Boston!! You know, I ran a 10k Yesterday. Ran 42:10. Some guy talked to me before the race. Asked what age group I was in. I told him 60-64. Then told me he was in the 65-69 age group. Guess what, he ran 40:10 and is 68. I made sure to find him after the race to congratulate him. I was impressed. Turns out he has run only a couple races that showed up on Athlinks. Both at Run Seal Beach. (5 years apart) And he ran an age graded score in the high 80's. Don't know why, but I asked if he had heard of Frank Meza, and explained who he was. He knew that he coached at Loyola High School,and was "pretty fast".

If you check out the Loyola H.S. website, Frank's name is nowhere to be seen. The head coach is a guy called Diaz.

In all honesty, hopefully Frank will be able to show his "innocence" in this whole affair, but right now, on paper, it does not look very positive.

I am still on the fence, with the caveat that his splits really seem way out there, two 18.30 splits by a 70 year old do not add up.

Good luck.

Ghost in China

18:15.53 is the 5000m world record for M70. An 18:34 split during a marathon does seem awful fast.

I had a few races in where my split times from race results were not matching what actually happened in the race. In my Marathon PR I split the 10 km in like 35:40 and the race results marked as a 35:06. Consequently my next 5 k were super slower than they actually were. In the end, the chip times added up to the actual final time, but the splits were mostly all off. Never by over 1 min per 10 km but still one that people could argue if it was legit in case there was anything special about it.

I know that this argument is much harder to be valid when splits are off from 18 min to 25 min, and when other runners did not have the same issue in the same race, but still. I have seen many weird things with chip times. I do not think this would be reason enough for a concrete case. Ok, maybe for a case, not for actual proof.

Clearly a late-blooming, elderly WR runner who paces himself worse than a kindergartner!