Well that didn't take long: Asbel Kiprop gives up fight to prove innocence - Says he doesn't have resources to fight IAAF

m!ndweak wrote:

hey subway

when i do my analysis to come up with 4%, it comes from a number of ways

taking times i believe to be as clean as can be, then the medical research that claims 4-10% improvement.

then i go and look at an athletes progression and if there is a ~30 second drop in 5k in one year there you go

all the arguing and insults i get and yet i stay consistent....why? because the DROPS are always consistent

4% drop isnt that big in an 800m, but its HUGE in a marathon

3-4 seconds in an 800

rudisha......went from 1:43-44 to WR.....pretty spot on of 4% gain, which i would say in an 800 is harder to get since its not solely dependent on aerobic potential

2010 1:41.01 Rieti (ITA) 29 AUG 2010

2009 1:42.01 Rieti (ITA) 06 SEP 2009

2008 1:43.72 Oslo (NOR) 06 JUN 2008

2007 1:44.15 Bruxelles (BEL) 14 SEP 2007

8-9 seconds in a 1500m

ramzi (i know i know he cant be used)

2014 3:40.95 Incheon (KOR) 29 SEP 2014

2013 3:51.63 Pune (IND) 04 JUL 2013

2007 3:35.00 Osaka (JPN) 29 AUG 2007

2006 3:29.14 Roma (ITA) 14 JUL 2006

2005 3:30.00 Roma (ITA) 08 JUL 2005

2004 3:30.25 Roma (ITA) 02 JUL 2004

2003 3:39.30 Rabat (MAR) 31 MAY 2003

oh and that 3-4 in an 800? oh ramzi did that too

2006 1:44.05 Madrid (ESP) 17 JUL 2006

2005 1:44.24 Helsinki (FIN) 14 AUG 2005

2003 1:47.56 Amman (JOR) 07 SEP 2003

what about Mo then?

2013 3:28.81 Monaco (MON) 19 JUL 2013

2012 3:34.66 Los Angeles, CA (USA) 18 MAY 2012

2009 3:33.98 Monaco (MON) 28 JUL 2009

2008 3:39.66 Birmingham (GBR) 13 JUL 2008

2007 3:46.50 Birmingham (GBR) 07 JUL 2007

2006 3:38.02 Rieti (ITA) 27 AUG 2006

monaco to monaco is a 5 second improvement, but before that his PR from his "prime" was his 3:38.02

17-18 seconds in a 3000m

how about ruppy poop

2010 7:43.24 London (GBR) 13 AUG 2010

2008 7:51.17 Carson (USA) 18 MAY 2008

2007 8:01.90 Rieti (ITA) 09 SEP 2007

2006 8:14.20 Eugene, OR (USA) 18 MAR 2006

2005 7:49.16 Lignano (ITA) 17 JUL 2005

2004 8:03.67 Richmond (CAN) 23 JUN 2004

on the sauce then off then back on?

30-31 seconds in a 5000m

lets use demi god daniel komen

2003 13:28.56 Lille (FRA) 15 JUN 2003

2001 13:01.98 Athina (GRE) 11 JUN 2001

2000 13:01.78 Bruxelles (BEL) 25 AUG 2000

1999 12:55.16 Roma (ITA) 07 JUL 1999

1998 12:54.82 Bruxelles (BEL) 28 AUG 1998

1997 12:39.74 Bruxelles (BEL) 22 AUG 1997

1996 12:45.09 Zürich (SUI) 14 AUG 1996

1995 12:56.15 Roma (ITA) 08 JUN 1995

1994 13:31.10 Algiers (ALG) 08 JUL 1994

94-95....nothing to see there, then pushed it HARD with no fear of death or consequences

no? dont see it? lets try Geb

1998 12:39.36 Helsinki (FIN) 13 JUN 1998

1997 12:41.86 Zürich (SUI) 13 AUG 1997

1996 12:52.70 Zürich (SUI) 14 AUG 1996

1995 12:44.39 Zürich (SUI) 16 AUG 1995

1994 12:56.96 Hengelo (NED) 04 JUN 1994

1993 13:03.17 Stuttgart (GER) 16 AUG 1993

1992 13:36.06 Seoul (KOR) 19 SEP 1992

looks like geb got the goods 2 years before komen

lets try paul tergat

1997 12:49.87 Zürich (SUI) 13 AUG 1997

1996 12:54.72 Zürich (SUI) 14 AUG 1996

1995 13:07.49 Zürich (SUI) 16 AUG 1995

1994 13:15.07 Berlin (GER) 30 AUG 1994

1993 13:20.16 Rieti (ITA) 05 SEP 1993

looks like tergat got on the sauce same time as komen, 94

no still cant see, lets take a look at KB

2004 12:37.35 Hengelo (NED) 31 MAY 2004

2003 12:52.26 Oslo (NOR) 27 JUN 2003

2002 13:26.58 Milano (ITA) 05 JUN 2002

2001 13:13.33 Sevilla (ESP) 08 JUN 2001

2000 13:20.57 Rieti (ITA) 03 SEP 2000

looks like KB was about 10-16 seconds better naturally than komen and geb, but KB fiance dies on jan 2005 most likely due to EPO, and he cuts back, as well as the 2006 better testing.

hmm why not one more person with that good ol positive A and negative B...lagat

800

1998 1:46.02 Paris (FRA) 29 JUL 1998

1997 1:49.46 Eugene, OR (USA) 19 APR 1997

1500

2001 3:26.34 Bruxelles (BEL) 24 AUG 2001

2000 3:28.51 Zürich (SUI) 11 AUG 2000

1999 3:30.56 Zürich (SUI) 11 AUG 1999

1998 3:34.48 Stuttgart (GER) 19 JUL 1998

1997 3:41.19 Palo Alto (USA) 09 MAY 1997

remember a one adam goucher used to battle with him

3000

2000 7:33.51 Monaco (MON) 18 AUG 2000

1999 8:37.08 Pullman, WA (USA) 03 APR 1999

1998 7:45.28 Barcelona (ESP) 25 JUL 1998

5000

2005 12:59.29 Berlin (GER) 04 SEP 2005

2002 13:19.14 Walnut (USA) 19 APR 2002

2001 13:30.54 Walnut (USA) 20 APR 2001

2000 13:23.46 Walnut (USA) 14 APR 2000

1999 13:36.12 Modesto, CA (USA) 07 MAY 1999

1998 13:42.73 Walnut (USA) 19 APR 1998

1997 13:50.33 Seattle, WA (USA) 25 MAY 1997

no where is there showing he is ready to pop a sub 13, nope natural he was right there with KB, geb and komen when they were natural

ok ok lets look at some white dudes

kennedy

1996 12:58.21 Zürich (SUI) 14 AUG 1996

1995 13:03.37 Zürich (SUI) 16 AUG 1995

1994 13:02.93 Oslo (NOR) 22 JUL 1994

1993 13:14.91 Oslo (NOR) 10 JUL 1993

1992 13:28.18 London (GBR) 10 JUL 1992

1991 13:22.17 Oslo (NOR) 06 JUL 1991

kennedy again was right there with the others naturally of geb, komen, kb and lagat. the difference was those guys were 3:35 or so 1500 guys where kennedy was 3:38 at best even in the proposed year he started saucing (92-93)

check his 3000m

1998 7:30.84 Monaco (MON) 08 AUG 1998

1997 7:31.77 Oslo (NOR) 04 JUL 1997

1996 7:31.69 Bruxelles (BEL) 23 AUG 1996

1995 7:36.15 Monaco (MON) 25 JUL 1995

1994 7:35.33 Nice (FRA) 18 JUL 1994

1993 7:38.45 Köln (GER) 01 AUG 1993

1991 7:48.02 Neubrandenburg (GER) 21 JUN 1991

1990 7:58.92 Västerås (SWE) 29 JUN 1990

ok ruppy poop

2014 3:34.15 Bruxelles (BEL) 05 SEP 2014

2013 3:36.69 London (GBR) 27 JUL 2013

2012 3:34.75 Los Angeles, CA (USA) 18 MAY 2012

2009 3:39.14 Eugene, OR (USA) 30 MAY 2009

2008 3:43.33 Burnaby (CAN) 21 JUN 2008

2005 3:44.39 Cuxhaven (GER) 09 JUL 2005

2004 3:46.68 Lappeenranta (FIN) 25 JUL 2004

2003 3:53.57 Amherst (USA) 06 JUL 2003

2008 he was maxed out and 5 seconds slower than kennedy then booom....

2010 7:43.24 London (GBR) 13 AUG 2010

2008 7:51.17 Carson (USA) 18 MAY 2008

2007 8:01.90 Rieti (ITA) 09 SEP 2007

2006 8:14.20 Eugene, OR (USA) 18 MAR 2006

2005 7:49.16 Lignano (ITA) 17 JUL 2005

2004 8:03.67 Richmond (CAN) 23 JUN 2004

so a guy who was slower than kennedy at 1500 till magic, but then still has a slower 3000 than kennedy....

2012 12:58.90 Eugene, OR (USA) 02 JUN 2012

2011 13:06.86 Birmingham (GBR) 10 JUL 2011

2010 13:07.35 Zürich (SUI) 19 AUG 2010

2009 13:46.41 Eugene, OR (USA) 29 MAY 2009

2008 13:59.14 Eugene, OR (USA) 27 JUN 2008

2007 13:30.49 Eugene, OR (USA) 20 APR 2007

2006 13:47.04 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 22 JUL 2006

2005 13:44.72 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 23 JUL 2005

2004 13:37.91 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 31 JUL 2004

and just like lagat....not showing anything that says sub 13, then boom

now the 10k is 60-65 seconds

there is ruppy poop

2011 26:48.00 Bruxelles (BEL) 16 SEP 2011

2010 27:10.74 Palo Alto (USA) 01 MAY 2010

2009 27:37.99 Berlin (GER) 17 AUG 2009

2008 27:36.99 Beijing (CHN) 17 AUG 2008

2007 27:33.48 Palo Alto (USA) 29 APR 2007

geb

1995 26:43.53 Hengelo (NED) 05 JUN 1995

1994 27:15.00 Lausanne (SUI) 06 JUL 1994

1993 27:30.17 Durban (RSA) 24 JUN 1993

1992 28:03.99 Seoul (KOR) 18 SEP 1992

tergat

1997 26:27.85 Bruxelles (BEL) 22 AUG 1997

1996 26:54.41 Bruxelles (BEL) 23 AUG 1996

1995 27:14.08 Bruxelles (BEL) 25 AUG 1995

1994 27:23.89 Bruxelles (BEL) 19 AUG 1994

1993 27:18.43 Bruxelles (BEL) 03 SEP 1993

Mo

2011 26:46.57 Eugene, OR (USA) 03 JUN 2011

2010 27:28.86 Marseille (FRA) 05 JUN 2010

2008 27:44.54 Palo Alto (USA) 04 MAY 2008

for all those saying europes slow times during the EPO era means either

a) EPO doesnt work

b) or why wasnt the euros taking

as your excuse to say kenyans dont use or it doesn work on them....its NOT hard to go to the iaaf progression page for the top runners and see if they show the DROP in time of approx 4%

they were using, they just sucked so much worse than their peers of the past.....when the best you are producing is 3:43 in the 1500, EPO can only get them 8-9 seconds, which is a 3:34-35....how is this so hard to grasp? when the best from kenya is already running 3:33-35, and you get them on the sauce and they can get a 4% improvement what does that give you? wow this is hard to figure out isnt it? a 3:35 and a 4% gain is.....booom you did the math right...3:26

kiprop

2015 3:26.69 Monaco (MON) 17 JUL 2015

2014 3:28.45 Monaco (MON) 18 JUL 2014

2013 3:27.72 Monaco (MON) 19 JUL 2013

2012 3:28.88 Monaco (MON) 20 JUL 2012

2011 3:30.46 Rieti (ITA) 10 SEP 2011

2010 3:31.78 Rieti (ITA) 29 AUG 2010

2009 3:31.20 Roma (ITA) 10 JUL 2009

2008 3:31.64 Roma (ITA) 11 JUL 2008

2007 3:35.24 Osaka (JPN) 29 AUG 2007

and dont give me sh*t he was a noob scrub in 2007

cause

2008 1:44.71 Lausanne (SUI) 02 SEP 2008 (age "19")

2007 3:35.24 Osaka (JPN) 29 AUG 2007 (age "18")

2007 7:42.32 Torino (ITA) 08 JUN 2007(age "18")

in 2007 he was "18" i say that cause of the blatant age cheating.

now lets compare el g, coe, and jim ryun at 18

ryun

800m 1:44.9h Terre Haute, IN (USA) 10 JUN 1966, age 19

1500m 3:33.1h Los Angeles, CA (USA) 08 JUL 1967, age 20

mile 3:51.10h (equivalent to a 3:34.04 1500m, also according to conversions its a 3K = 7:42.2) at age 19

coe

800m 1977 1:44.95 London (GBR) 09 SEP 1977, age 21

mile 1976 3:58.35 London (GBR) 30 AUG 1976, age 20

1500m 1980 3:32.19 Zürich (SUI) 13 AUG 1980, age 24

el G

800m 1995 1:47.18 Torino (ITA) 02 JUN 1995, age 21

1500m 1994 3:33.61 Nice (FRA) 18 JUL 1994, age 20

mile 1994 3:53.71 Oslo (NOR) 22 JUL 199, age 20

3000m 1994 7:49.84 Meknés (MAR) 19 MAR 1994, age 20

nope nothing to see here

Doped to the Max wrote:

The "undetectable PED" was only undetectable for a short time. There were several rEPO positives at Sydney that didn't result in any bans. Marathoner Roberto Barbi holds the infamous distinction of being the first athlete banned for an rEPO positive when he was tested upon arrival at the 01 WCs in Edmonton. Then the slew of Morrocan IC positives came followed by several top European runners getting nailed OOC. And of course there's the ridiculous number of Russian sanctions & positives post-ABP. The rEPO-era has been almost 3 decades long now with only about a third of that period undetectable.

And the "best of rest" didn't run so poorly. Been over this ad nauseam with you. Improvement in time from baseline is just an important measure as an end point of a very fast top performing time. I still think you believe every O2-vector doper is a potential WR holder. Not every doper has the same talent level to begin with - you should know this. Individual varaiation, dosing & resources are all factors.

Please explain why an end-point of a fast top time is a better measurement of O2-vector doping's effectiveness than a percentage improvement in time from base - if not all athletes have the same talent level to begin with. ?

Deanouk wrote:

m!ndweak wrote:

3-4 seconds in an 800

rudisha......went from 1:43-44 to WR.....pretty spot on of 4% gain, which i would say in an 800 is harder to get since its not solely dependent on aerobic potential

2010 1:41.01 Rieti (ITA) 29 AUG 2010

2009 1:42.01 Rieti (ITA) 06 SEP 2009

2008 1:43.72 Oslo (NOR) 06 JUN 2008

2007 1:44.15 Bruxelles (BEL) 14 SEP 2007

That's a pretty normal progression for someone of that age an talent. He didn't go from 1:43/1:44 to WR, he went 1:43.7 to 1:42.0 (not the WR at the time), to 1:41.0. While that progression doesn't mean he didn't take EPO, there is nothing about it to suggest he did.

Look at Cruz's progression:

1981 (18) - 1:44.3;

1983 (20) - 1:44.04;

1984 (21) - 1:41.77.

Much bigger jump in a year, but the fact he ran 1:44.3 at 18 suggests that he was a phenomenal talent.

m!ndweak wrote:

coe

800m 1977 1:44.95 London (GBR) 09 SEP 1977, age 21

mile 1976 3:58.35 London (GBR) 30 AUG 1976, age 20

1500m 1980 3:32.19 Zürich (SUI) 13 AUG 1980, age 24

nope nothing to see here

Your stats on Coe are wrong.

He was 20 when he ran 1:44.95, not 21. At 21 he ran 1:43.97

If you look at him from 1976, running against Walker at Gateshead over a mile, he looks like a boy, short and thin at 19. Unlike Ryun, Cruz and Rudisha, Coe had not finished growing; he was a late developer. It was in 76 that he started doing lots of gym work; circuits, weights, plyometrics, stretching, for the first time at Loughborough under George Gandy.

His 800m progression was:

1977 (20) - 1:44.95;

1978 (21) - 1:43.97;

1979 (22) - 1:42.33.

Coe was 19 in 76 when he ran a 3:58 mile. The following year, 1977, at 20, he beat the 1500m WR holder, Filbert Bayi, in the Emsley Carr mile, in a time of 3:57.7. It was his only 1500m or mile race of the year, so a 3:57 doesn't reflect his ability at the time.

He ran 3:32.03 for 1500 at 22, and he was 23 when he ran the 3:32.19 in Zurich 1980.

Deanouk wrote:

m!ndweak wrote:

3-4 seconds in an 800

rudisha......went from 1:43-44 to WR.....pretty spot on of 4% gain, which i would say in an 800 is harder to get since its not solely dependent on aerobic potential

2010 1:41.01 Rieti (ITA) 29 AUG 2010

2009 1:42.01 Rieti (ITA) 06 SEP 2009

2008 1:43.72 Oslo (NOR) 06 JUN 2008

2007 1:44.15 Bruxelles (BEL) 14 SEP 2007

That's a pretty normal progression for someone of that age an talent. He didn't go from 1:43/1:44 to WR, he went 1:43.7 to 1:42.0 (not the WR at the time), to 1:41.0. While that progression doesn't mean he didn't take EPO, there is nothing about it to suggest he did.

Look at Cruz's progression:

1981 (18) - 1:44.3;

1983 (20) - 1:44.04;

1984 (21) - 1:41.77.

Much bigger jump in a year, but the fact he ran 1:44.3 at 18 suggests that he was a phenomenal talent.

m!ndweak wrote:

coe

800m 1977 1:44.95 London (GBR) 09 SEP 1977, age 21

mile 1976 3:58.35 London (GBR) 30 AUG 1976, age 20

1500m 1980 3:32.19 Zürich (SUI) 13 AUG 1980, age 24

nope nothing to see here

Your stats on Coe are wrong.

He was 20 when he ran 1:44.95, not 21. At 21 he ran 1:43.97

If you look at him from 1976, running against Walker at Gateshead over a mile, he looks like a boy, short and thin at 19. Unlike Ryun, Cruz and Rudisha, Coe had not finished growing; he was a late developer. It was in 76 that he started doing lots of gym work; circuits, weights, plyometrics, stretching, for the first time at Loughborough under George Gandy.

His 800m progression was:

1977 (20) - 1:44.95;

1978 (21) - 1:43.97;

1979 (22) - 1:42.33.

Coe was 19 in 76 when he ran a 3:58 mile. The following year, 1977, at 20, he beat the 1500m WR holder, Filbert Bayi, in the Emsley Carr mile, in a time of 3:57.7. It was his only 1500m or mile race of the year, so a 3:57 doesn't reflect his ability at the time.

He ran 3:32.03 for 1500 at 22, and he was 23 when he ran the 3:32.19 in Zurich 1980.

m!ndweak wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

That's a pretty normal progression for someone of that age an talent. He didn't go from 1:43/1:44 to WR, he went 1:43.7 to 1:42.0 (not the WR at the time), to 1:41.0. While that progression doesn't mean he didn't take EPO, there is nothing about it to suggest he did.

Look at Cruz's progression:

1981 (18) - 1:44.3;

1983 (20) - 1:44.04;

1984 (21) - 1:41.77.

Much bigger jump in a year, but the fact he ran 1:44.3 at 18 suggests that he was a phenomenal talent.

Your stats on Coe are wrong.

He was 20 when he ran 1:44.95, not 21. At 21 he ran 1:43.97

If you look at him from 1976, running against Walker at Gateshead over a mile, he looks like a boy, short and thin at 19. Unlike Ryun, Cruz and Rudisha, Coe had not finished growing; he was a late developer. It was in 76 that he started doing lots of gym work; circuits, weights, plyometrics, stretching, for the first time at Loughborough under George Gandy.

His 800m progression was:

1977 (20) - 1:44.95;

1978 (21) - 1:43.97;

1979 (22) - 1:42.33.

Coe was 19 in 76 when he ran a 3:58 mile. The following year, 1977, at 20, he beat the 1500m WR holder, Filbert Bayi, in the Emsley Carr mile, in a time of 3:57.7. It was his only 1500m or mile race of the year, so a 3:57 doesn't reflect his ability at the time.

He ran 3:32.03 for 1500 at 22, and he was 23 when he ran the 3:32.19 in Zurich 1980.

oh dear lord, 20 days before he was 21, your as bad as rekrunner complaining about grammer to sidetrack the thread

seb coe date of birth

29 September 1956 (age 61)

"Eleven days later, on 9 September 1977, he ran the 800m at the Coca-Cola Games at Crystal Palace in a time of 1:44.95"

(from his wiki page)

and his iaaf progression page

1977 1:44.95 London (GBR) 09 SEP 1977

so your going to CUT hairs that he ran 1:44.95 at 20 yrs 345 days....man you really made me feel dumb

to the other guy saying rudisha should have the WR since he showed 1:44 at the same age as ryun....ok EPO apologist

as i showed with REAL data, jim ryun, el g and kiprop all had very very very similar times at 18-19 yrs old....jim was only able to increase his time by the smallest margins, while the other two DROPPED 7 seconds!

jim ryuns mile is equivalent to kiprops 1500 and 3000 at the same AGE

coe didnt run equivalent times to jim, el g and kiprops 18-19 yr age until he was 24!

now lets take a look at kipketer

2004 1:43.88 Roma (ITA) 02 JUL 2004

2003 1:43.28 Bruxelles (BEL) 05 SEP 2003

2002 1:42.32 Rieti (ITA) 08 SEP 2002

2000 1:43.35 Bruxelles (BEL) 25 AUG 2000

1999 1:42.27 Bruxelles (BEL) 03 SEP 1999

1998 1:43.18 Zürich (SUI) 12 AUG 1998

1997 1:41.11 Köln (GER) 24 AUG 1997

1996 1:41.83 Rieti (ITA) 01 SEP 1996

1995 1:42.87 Monaco (MON) 25 JUL 1995

1994 1:43.29 Oslo (NOR) 22 JUL 1994

1993 1:45.46 Lappeenranta (FIN) 27 JUL 1993

1992 1:45.62 Helsinki (FIN) 30 JUN 1992

1991 1:46.19 Malmö (SWE) 05 AUG 1991

1990 1:48.13 Plovdiv (BUL) 10 AUG 1990

as it looks from komen and paul tergat kenya really got going on EPO in 94, and here we see kipketer drop 2 seconds, then he drops another second and another second.

next post i am going to take a look and see how many kenyans made HUGE jumps in the year 1994... i know its pointless with the super intelligent gurus on this site, as they all seem to think im a f*cking idiot. too bad i called kiprop getting busted lolz

too bad i called van getting the WR and everyone sucking off vent/calculo when he told me i was a drivel moron and it was going to be merrit for WR and gold....lolz

m!ndweak wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

That's a pretty normal progression for someone of that age an talent. He didn't go from 1:43/1:44 to WR, he went 1:43.7 to 1:42.0 (not the WR at the time), to 1:41.0. While that progression doesn't mean he didn't take EPO, there is nothing about it to suggest he did.

Look at Cruz's progression:

1981 (18) - 1:44.3;

1983 (20) - 1:44.04;

1984 (21) - 1:41.77.

Much bigger jump in a year, but the fact he ran 1:44.3 at 18 suggests that he was a phenomenal talent.

Your stats on Coe are wrong.

He was 20 when he ran 1:44.95, not 21. At 21 he ran 1:43.97

If you look at him from 1976, running against Walker at Gateshead over a mile, he looks like a boy, short and thin at 19. Unlike Ryun, Cruz and Rudisha, Coe had not finished growing; he was a late developer. It was in 76 that he started doing lots of gym work; circuits, weights, plyometrics, stretching, for the first time at Loughborough under George Gandy.

His 800m progression was:

1977 (20) - 1:44.95;

1978 (21) - 1:43.97;

1979 (22) - 1:42.33.

Coe was 19 in 76 when he ran a 3:58 mile. The following year, 1977, at 20, he beat the 1500m WR holder, Filbert Bayi, in the Emsley Carr mile, in a time of 3:57.7. It was his only 1500m or mile race of the year, so a 3:57 doesn't reflect his ability at the time.

He ran 3:32.03 for 1500 at 22, and he was 23 when he ran the 3:32.19 in Zurich 1980.

oh dear lord, 20 days before he was 21, your as bad as rekrunner complaining about grammer to sidetrack the thread

seb coe date of birth

29 September 1956 (age 61)

"Eleven days later, on 9 September 1977, he ran the 800m at the Coca-Cola Games at Crystal Palace in a time of 1:44.95"

(from his wiki page)

and his iaaf progression page

1977 1:44.95 London (GBR) 09 SEP 1977

so your going to CUT hairs that he ran 1:44.95 at 20 yrs 345 days....man you really made me feel dumb

to the other guy saying rudisha should have the WR since he showed 1:44 at the same age as ryun....ok EPO apologist

as i showed with REAL data, jim ryun, el g and kiprop all had very very very similar times at 18-19 yrs old....jim was only able to increase his time by the smallest margins, while the other two DROPPED 7 seconds!

jim ryuns mile is equivalent to kiprops 1500 and 3000 at the same AGE

coe didnt run equivalent times to jim, el g and kiprops 18-19 yr age until he was 24!

now lets take a look at kipketer

2004 1:43.88 Roma (ITA) 02 JUL 2004

2003 1:43.28 Bruxelles (BEL) 05 SEP 2003

2002 1:42.32 Rieti (ITA) 08 SEP 2002

2000 1:43.35 Bruxelles (BEL) 25 AUG 2000

1999 1:42.27 Bruxelles (BEL) 03 SEP 1999

1998 1:43.18 Zürich (SUI) 12 AUG 1998

1997 1:41.11 Köln (GER) 24 AUG 1997

1996 1:41.83 Rieti (ITA) 01 SEP 1996

1995 1:42.87 Monaco (MON) 25 JUL 1995

1994 1:43.29 Oslo (NOR) 22 JUL 1994

1993 1:45.46 Lappeenranta (FIN) 27 JUL 1993

1992 1:45.62 Helsinki (FIN) 30 JUN 1992

1991 1:46.19 Malmö (SWE) 05 AUG 1991

1990 1:48.13 Plovdiv (BUL) 10 AUG 1990

as it looks from komen and paul tergat kenya really got going on EPO in 94, and here we see kipketer drop 2 seconds, then he drops another second and another second.

next post i am going to take a look and see how many kenyans made HUGE jumps in the year 1994... i know its pointless with the super intelligent gurus on this site, as they all seem to think im a f*cking idiot. too bad i called kiprop getting busted lolz

too bad i called van getting the WR and everyone sucking off vent/calculo when he told me i was a drivel moron and it was going to be merrit for WR and gold....lolz

ex-runner wrote:

m!ndweak wrote:

hey subway

when i do my analysis to come up with 4%, it comes from a number of ways

taking times i believe to be as clean as can be, then the medical research that claims 4-10% improvement.

then i go and look at an athletes progression and if there is a ~30 second drop in 5k in one year there you go

all the arguing and insults i get and yet i stay consistent....why? because the DROPS are always consistent

4% drop isnt that big in an 800m, but its HUGE in a marathon

3-4 seconds in an 800

rudisha......went from 1:43-44 to WR.....pretty spot on of 4% gain, which i would say in an 800 is harder to get since its not solely dependent on aerobic potential

2010 1:41.01 Rieti (ITA) 29 AUG 2010

2009 1:42.01 Rieti (ITA) 06 SEP 2009

2008 1:43.72 Oslo (NOR) 06 JUN 2008

2007 1:44.15 Bruxelles (BEL) 14 SEP 2007

8-9 seconds in a 1500m

ramzi (i know i know he cant be used)

2014 3:40.95 Incheon (KOR) 29 SEP 2014

2013 3:51.63 Pune (IND) 04 JUL 2013

2007 3:35.00 Osaka (JPN) 29 AUG 2007

2006 3:29.14 Roma (ITA) 14 JUL 2006

2005 3:30.00 Roma (ITA) 08 JUL 2005

2004 3:30.25 Roma (ITA) 02 JUL 2004

2003 3:39.30 Rabat (MAR) 31 MAY 2003

oh and that 3-4 in an 800? oh ramzi did that too

2006 1:44.05 Madrid (ESP) 17 JUL 2006

2005 1:44.24 Helsinki (FIN) 14 AUG 2005

2003 1:47.56 Amman (JOR) 07 SEP 2003

what about Mo then?

2013 3:28.81 Monaco (MON) 19 JUL 2013

2012 3:34.66 Los Angeles, CA (USA) 18 MAY 2012

2009 3:33.98 Monaco (MON) 28 JUL 2009

2008 3:39.66 Birmingham (GBR) 13 JUL 2008

2007 3:46.50 Birmingham (GBR) 07 JUL 2007

2006 3:38.02 Rieti (ITA) 27 AUG 2006

monaco to monaco is a 5 second improvement, but before that his PR from his "prime" was his 3:38.02

17-18 seconds in a 3000m

how about ruppy poop

2010 7:43.24 London (GBR) 13 AUG 2010

2008 7:51.17 Carson (USA) 18 MAY 2008

2007 8:01.90 Rieti (ITA) 09 SEP 2007

2006 8:14.20 Eugene, OR (USA) 18 MAR 2006

2005 7:49.16 Lignano (ITA) 17 JUL 2005

2004 8:03.67 Richmond (CAN) 23 JUN 2004

on the sauce then off then back on?

30-31 seconds in a 5000m

lets use demi god daniel komen

2003 13:28.56 Lille (FRA) 15 JUN 2003

2001 13:01.98 Athina (GRE) 11 JUN 2001

2000 13:01.78 Bruxelles (BEL) 25 AUG 2000

1999 12:55.16 Roma (ITA) 07 JUL 1999

1998 12:54.82 Bruxelles (BEL) 28 AUG 1998

1997 12:39.74 Bruxelles (BEL) 22 AUG 1997

1996 12:45.09 Zürich (SUI) 14 AUG 1996

1995 12:56.15 Roma (ITA) 08 JUN 1995

1994 13:31.10 Algiers (ALG) 08 JUL 1994

94-95....nothing to see there, then pushed it HARD with no fear of death or consequences

no? dont see it? lets try Geb

1998 12:39.36 Helsinki (FIN) 13 JUN 1998

1997 12:41.86 Zürich (SUI) 13 AUG 1997

1996 12:52.70 Zürich (SUI) 14 AUG 1996

1995 12:44.39 Zürich (SUI) 16 AUG 1995

1994 12:56.96 Hengelo (NED) 04 JUN 1994

1993 13:03.17 Stuttgart (GER) 16 AUG 1993

1992 13:36.06 Seoul (KOR) 19 SEP 1992

looks like geb got the goods 2 years before komen

lets try paul tergat

1997 12:49.87 Zürich (SUI) 13 AUG 1997

1996 12:54.72 Zürich (SUI) 14 AUG 1996

1995 13:07.49 Zürich (SUI) 16 AUG 1995

1994 13:15.07 Berlin (GER) 30 AUG 1994

1993 13:20.16 Rieti (ITA) 05 SEP 1993

looks like tergat got on the sauce same time as komen, 94

no still cant see, lets take a look at KB

2004 12:37.35 Hengelo (NED) 31 MAY 2004

2003 12:52.26 Oslo (NOR) 27 JUN 2003

2002 13:26.58 Milano (ITA) 05 JUN 2002

2001 13:13.33 Sevilla (ESP) 08 JUN 2001

2000 13:20.57 Rieti (ITA) 03 SEP 2000

looks like KB was about 10-16 seconds better naturally than komen and geb, but KB fiance dies on jan 2005 most likely due to EPO, and he cuts back, as well as the 2006 better testing.

hmm why not one more person with that good ol positive A and negative B...lagat

800

1998 1:46.02 Paris (FRA) 29 JUL 1998

1997 1:49.46 Eugene, OR (USA) 19 APR 1997

1500

2001 3:26.34 Bruxelles (BEL) 24 AUG 2001

2000 3:28.51 Zürich (SUI) 11 AUG 2000

1999 3:30.56 Zürich (SUI) 11 AUG 1999

1998 3:34.48 Stuttgart (GER) 19 JUL 1998

1997 3:41.19 Palo Alto (USA) 09 MAY 1997

remember a one adam goucher used to battle with him

3000

2000 7:33.51 Monaco (MON) 18 AUG 2000

1999 8:37.08 Pullman, WA (USA) 03 APR 1999

1998 7:45.28 Barcelona (ESP) 25 JUL 1998

5000

2005 12:59.29 Berlin (GER) 04 SEP 2005

2002 13:19.14 Walnut (USA) 19 APR 2002

2001 13:30.54 Walnut (USA) 20 APR 2001

2000 13:23.46 Walnut (USA) 14 APR 2000

1999 13:36.12 Modesto, CA (USA) 07 MAY 1999

1998 13:42.73 Walnut (USA) 19 APR 1998

1997 13:50.33 Seattle, WA (USA) 25 MAY 1997

no where is there showing he is ready to pop a sub 13, nope natural he was right there with KB, geb and komen when they were natural

ok ok lets look at some white dudes

kennedy

1996 12:58.21 Zürich (SUI) 14 AUG 1996

1995 13:03.37 Zürich (SUI) 16 AUG 1995

1994 13:02.93 Oslo (NOR) 22 JUL 1994

1993 13:14.91 Oslo (NOR) 10 JUL 1993

1992 13:28.18 London (GBR) 10 JUL 1992

1991 13:22.17 Oslo (NOR) 06 JUL 1991

kennedy again was right there with the others naturally of geb, komen, kb and lagat. the difference was those guys were 3:35 or so 1500 guys where kennedy was 3:38 at best even in the proposed year he started saucing (92-93)

check his 3000m

1998 7:30.84 Monaco (MON) 08 AUG 1998

1997 7:31.77 Oslo (NOR) 04 JUL 1997

1996 7:31.69 Bruxelles (BEL) 23 AUG 1996

1995 7:36.15 Monaco (MON) 25 JUL 1995

1994 7:35.33 Nice (FRA) 18 JUL 1994

1993 7:38.45 Köln (GER) 01 AUG 1993

1991 7:48.02 Neubrandenburg (GER) 21 JUN 1991

1990 7:58.92 Västerås (SWE) 29 JUN 1990

ok ruppy poop

2014 3:34.15 Bruxelles (BEL) 05 SEP 2014

2013 3:36.69 London (GBR) 27 JUL 2013

2012 3:34.75 Los Angeles, CA (USA) 18 MAY 2012

2009 3:39.14 Eugene, OR (USA) 30 MAY 2009

2008 3:43.33 Burnaby (CAN) 21 JUN 2008

2005 3:44.39 Cuxhaven (GER) 09 JUL 2005

2004 3:46.68 Lappeenranta (FIN) 25 JUL 2004

2003 3:53.57 Amherst (USA) 06 JUL 2003

2008 he was maxed out and 5 seconds slower than kennedy then booom....

2010 7:43.24 London (GBR) 13 AUG 2010

2008 7:51.17 Carson (USA) 18 MAY 2008

2007 8:01.90 Rieti (ITA) 09 SEP 2007

2006 8:14.20 Eugene, OR (USA) 18 MAR 2006

2005 7:49.16 Lignano (ITA) 17 JUL 2005

2004 8:03.67 Richmond (CAN) 23 JUN 2004

so a guy who was slower than kennedy at 1500 till magic, but then still has a slower 3000 than kennedy....

2012 12:58.90 Eugene, OR (USA) 02 JUN 2012

2011 13:06.86 Birmingham (GBR) 10 JUL 2011

2010 13:07.35 Zürich (SUI) 19 AUG 2010

2009 13:46.41 Eugene, OR (USA) 29 MAY 2009

2008 13:59.14 Eugene, OR (USA) 27 JUN 2008

2007 13:30.49 Eugene, OR (USA) 20 APR 2007

2006 13:47.04 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 22 JUL 2006

2005 13:44.72 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 23 JUL 2005

2004 13:37.91 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 31 JUL 2004

and just like lagat....not showing anything that says sub 13, then boom

now the 10k is 60-65 seconds

there is ruppy poop

2011 26:48.00 Bruxelles (BEL) 16 SEP 2011

2010 27:10.74 Palo Alto (USA) 01 MAY 2010

2009 27:37.99 Berlin (GER) 17 AUG 2009

2008 27:36.99 Beijing (CHN) 17 AUG 2008

2007 27:33.48 Palo Alto (USA) 29 APR 2007

geb

1995 26:43.53 Hengelo (NED) 05 JUN 1995

1994 27:15.00 Lausanne (SUI) 06 JUL 1994

1993 27:30.17 Durban (RSA) 24 JUN 1993

1992 28:03.99 Seoul (KOR) 18 SEP 1992

tergat

1997 26:27.85 Bruxelles (BEL) 22 AUG 1997

1996 26:54.41 Bruxelles (BEL) 23 AUG 1996

1995 27:14.08 Bruxelles (BEL) 25 AUG 1995

1994 27:23.89 Bruxelles (BEL) 19 AUG 1994

1993 27:18.43 Bruxelles (BEL) 03 SEP 1993

Mo

2011 26:46.57 Eugene, OR (USA) 03 JUN 2011

2010 27:28.86 Marseille (FRA) 05 JUN 2010

2008 27:44.54 Palo Alto (USA) 04 MAY 2008

for all those saying europes slow times during the EPO era means either

a) EPO doesnt work

b) or why wasnt the euros taking

as your excuse to say kenyans dont use or it doesn work on them....its NOT hard to go to the iaaf progression page for the top runners and see if they show the DROP in time of approx 4%

they were using, they just sucked so much worse than their peers of the past.....when the best you are producing is 3:43 in the 1500, EPO can only get them 8-9 seconds, which is a 3:34-35....how is this so hard to grasp? when the best from kenya is already running 3:33-35, and you get them on the sauce and they can get a 4% improvement what does that give you? wow this is hard to figure out isnt it? a 3:35 and a 4% gain is.....booom you did the math right...3:26

kiprop

2015 3:26.69 Monaco (MON) 17 JUL 2015

2014 3:28.45 Monaco (MON) 18 JUL 2014

2013 3:27.72 Monaco (MON) 19 JUL 2013

2012 3:28.88 Monaco (MON) 20 JUL 2012

2011 3:30.46 Rieti (ITA) 10 SEP 2011

2010 3:31.78 Rieti (ITA) 29 AUG 2010

2009 3:31.20 Roma (ITA) 10 JUL 2009

2008 3:31.64 Roma (ITA) 11 JUL 2008

2007 3:35.24 Osaka (JPN) 29 AUG 2007

and dont give me sh*t he was a noob scrub in 2007

cause

2008 1:44.71 Lausanne (SUI) 02 SEP 2008 (age "19")

2007 3:35.24 Osaka (JPN) 29 AUG 2007 (age "18")

2007 7:42.32 Torino (ITA) 08 JUN 2007(age "18")

in 2007 he was "18" i say that cause of the blatant age cheating.

now lets compare el g, coe, and jim ryun at 18

ryun

800m 1:44.9h Terre Haute, IN (USA) 10 JUN 1966, age 19

1500m 3:33.1h Los Angeles, CA (USA) 08 JUL 1967, age 20

mile 3:51.10h (equivalent to a 3:34.04 1500m, also according to conversions its a 3K = 7:42.2) at age 19

coe

800m 1977 1:44.95 London (GBR) 09 SEP 1977, age 21

mile 1976 3:58.35 London (GBR) 30 AUG 1976, age 20

1500m 1980 3:32.19 Zürich (SUI) 13 AUG 1980, age 24

el G

800m 1995 1:47.18 Torino (ITA) 02 JUN 1995, age 21

1500m 1994 3:33.61 Nice (FRA) 18 JUL 1994, age 20

mile 1994 3:53.71 Oslo (NOR) 22 JUL 199, age 20

3000m 1994 7:49.84 Meknés (MAR) 19 MAR 1994, age 20

nope nothing to see here

Another beautifully insane post.

Rudisha went from 1:44.0 when he was 18 years old and then ran 1:41 3 years later, and your analysis is that he must be on EPO?

This is the man who ran 1:50 in the 800m on his first try at 14 years old.

You're nuts. Rudisha simply matured.