Really stupid question here. Is there currently testing in place at this event that the vast majority of people here believe is reliable enough to catch someone that is taking PED's?
Really stupid question here. Is there currently testing in place at this event that the vast majority of people here believe is reliable enough to catch someone that is taking PED's?
I feel like his not being in great shape leading up to this makes it more suspicious. A few weeks ago he can't hang on to ~13:10 pace at pre with Ben True and now he's dusting him and a bunch of other guys in 13 low shape? I get that he's peaking for this and may peak better than anyone else but this seems like a weird bump and an outlier like others have mentioned.
A couple other points, the old world record for 5k by a 41 year old was 13:57, nobody 42+ has broken 14. Performances usually drop off pretty quickly at these ages and not only has he mostly avoided this decline, but he's destroying old records.
Also, look at Meb. He's doing incredible things at his age but definitely showed he's getting old when he had no answer for Galen who was making his marathon debut. Now Lagat is smoking runners 15 years younger than him in an event that we're much stronger in than the marathon? We'll probably never know if he's clean right now or not but the people in this thread acting like there's nothing to see here don't have their eyes open.
The joke is on us wrote:
Wow, sounds like Torrence just couldn't keep himself contained. Not sure how credible Torrence is but he has been around the block and knows a thing or two.
I would like to see Lagat respond and take the lie detector as Paula suggests. For all the heat Torrence is getting here, he will be a fellow Olympian with Lagat, and a response is warrented.
At this point without a clean lie detector I am inclined to believe Torrence.
Ha Ha Ha.
Lie detector tests are unreliable and are not allowed as evidence in a court of law.
Paula Radcliffe also never took a lie detector test.
She just talked about doing it... just like she talked about wanting to release her blood test results from around her 2:15:25 world record marathon in 2003.
Paula Radcliffe never released the blood test results that she wanted to release.
Boooom wrote:
I feel like all of the people on here who think Lagat is doping are acting like he's miraculously in the best shape of his life...not at all. He's not gonna go sub 13 ever again, and his 1500 is probably no better than 3:36 or so right now. He ran like 9 seconds off his 3k PR indoors and didn't even make the world indoor team (was 3 seconds off). He's in great shape for 5k but don't act like he's in 2009-2011 shape. Honestly, if this were a 13:0x race I don't think he would have outkicked guys like Ben True and Hassan Mead who have that 10k strength...he probably would have still beaten Galen cause he's toast from marathon training and is lacking gears he used to have. This was Lagat's ideal kind of race. People running it should have figured that out before running the first 1000 slower than Ayana's PR pace. Molly Huddle could have led the first 1000 and wouldn't have even been straining. This was basically a 4k tempo run followed by a 1000m race.
Not at all. Lance was doping in his last tour and he wasn't even remotely competitive. Had he not been doping, he wouldn't have been in the race. Your body ages and there's nothing you can do (legally) to stop that. Lagat might not be in the best shape of his life now but he's in MUCH better shape than anyone ever his age and in MUCH better shape than were he not doping. 41-year olds don't close in 52 clean and I don't care how talented they are and how hard they train.
how fast did he close the last mile exactly
So I was watching Torrence and his buddies comment on the race. They were taking themselves so seriously. I had to laugh. https://voodoocomedy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/MCC.jpg
Lagat failed a drug test, that is a fact. I don't care about B samples, he failed a test in the most corrupt era of our sport, then voilà , no consequences. People don't and shouldn't forget this. I get the same feeling as Torrance when I see nice guy Lagat hamming it up. He cheated before and is probably cheating now. No, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. That went out the window when he was a doping Kenyan!
not a tard. wrote:
For all the tards that think Lagat ran 52 off of a "sit-and-kick" pace, check the splits: he ran 10:29 for the last 4k (13:06 pace). They only jogged for 1k...
Exactly. Not to mention Lagat split a friggin 4:00 min mile as well. WTF? At age 42...no freakin way. Doped to the gills baby. I hope he gets banned and all his times/accollades removed from teh books.
last mile wrote:
how fast did he close the last mile exactly
The poster who said he closed in 4 flat was too lazy to do the math and just pulled that out of their arse.
Final 1600m for Lagat was about 4:03.5, so roughly 4:05 last mile.
Hnhh wrote:
I feel like his not being in great shape leading up to this makes it more suspicious. A few weeks ago he can't hang on to ~13:10 pace at pre with Ben True and now he's dusting him and a bunch of other guys in 13 low shape? I get that he's peaking for this and may peak better than anyone else but this seems like a weird bump and an outlier like others have mentioned.
A couple other points, the old world record for 5k by a 41 year old was 13:57, nobody 42+ has broken 14. Performances usually drop off pretty quickly at these ages and not only has he mostly avoided this decline, but he's destroying old records.
Also, look at Meb. He's doing incredible things at his age but definitely showed he's getting old when he had no answer for Galen who was making his marathon debut. Now Lagat is smoking runners 15 years younger than him in an event that we're much stronger in than the marathon? We'll probably never know if he's clean right now or not but the people in this thread acting like there's nothing to see here don't have their eyes open.
^^^
Spot on mate
You are sad little unhappy people who don't want to look at the facts and science and acknowledge Lagat's superior talent and commitment to the sport.
yoyomama wrote:
The understanding of how to run an EPO test has improved dramatically since this incident and the consistent rerunning of the test samples will be outing more PED users as time goes on. However, the stability of the metabolites of EPO and EPO is miniscule compared to meldonium and anabolic steroids.
Maybe you are talking about testing urine for EPO? That's a ridiculously easy test to defeat. I also need to remind everyone at this point there are at least dozens of variations of EPO, few of which can be identified by urinalysis.
Finally, the only way the public gets a retest cycle is when another Seppelt article is published. If the IAAF and IOC can do more to discourage whistleblowers, then the sport is cleaner out of ignorance/corruption, not actually clean athletes.
here it is wrote:
rojo wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLAJF8r3DIQ#t=43m40sI think this is a lie. I'm going to delete this post in 9:40 pm ET if you dont' email me proof that this occurred.
robertjohnson@letsrun.comSomeone please let me know if this is a troll.
I just saw the video. What an embarrassment. These guys make "Wayne's World" look like a philosophical roundtable on "The Charlie Rose Show."
Rojo. I'm just saying that Torrance is effectively calling Jenkins a doper publicly. That is worth some discussion don't you think? And btw, Torrance was very aware that Jenkins finished fourth ahead of True when he made his comments. My surprise is that nobody is talking about it. It makes absolutely no sense for people in this thread to go on and on about Lagat and Ben True but not say anything about Jenkins.
rojo wrote:
ryan foreman wrote:I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Torrance all but directly accuses Jenkins of doping too.
Jenkins finished fourth. So it is obviously him who is the real victim of any alleged doping by Lagat. But Torrance skips any mention of Jenkins and instead goes on and on about feeling bad for True. In fact, when one of the others in the video confronts Torrance with the fact of Jenkins 4th place finish, Torrance just smiles a little and says he will not say anything about Jenkins.
Obviously Torrance has some ideas about how NOP operates.
Why is that surprising? We know there is currently a USADA investigation of the group and a court hearing on July 11 - to try to get the team doctor to testify.
Bernard Lagat has taken epo previously, it is a fact that wont go away. look into the trainers hes been with in the past and you can figure out the truth in Torrence's words - hes def not the first to speak out!!!
Easy to avoid positive tests. only reason he got caught previously was he screwed up his cycles and wasnt paying attn.
watch V. Conte youtube videos on how to avoid getting caught
lots of t&f athletes are doping today
no one cares whether jenkins is doping or not
hes not good enough
Way to exaggerate his actual mile time. Does that make you feel good? I watched the whole race and how it went down. Very easy to see how he did it and the pace built up. Drugs? Until he's convicted and it's proven that he was on drugs it's just hearsay and nothing else. I believe that Dave thoroughly regrets his comments and not just the ones on Lagat. Very disappointed in his "shoot from the hip" comments.
srs man jkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjk wrote:
not a tard. wrote:For all the tards that think Lagat ran 52 off of a "sit-and-kick" pace, check the splits: he ran 10:29 for the last 4k (13:06 pace). They only jogged for 1k...
Exactly. Not to mention Lagat split a friggin 4:00 min mile as well. WTF? At age 42...no freakin way. Doped to the gills baby. I hope he gets banned and all his times/accollades removed from teh books.
Torrence said that Lagat transformed his fitness in 2012... what's he referring to?
just to be clear wrote:
You are sad little unhappy people who don't want to look at the facts and science and acknowledge Lagat's superior talent and commitment to the sport.
And racists
Btw Rojo,
Doing a story on how the system works with the A and B samples is good. But I would really like to know about Lagat's training regimen how he achieved this performance. If he is clean than this represents almost a revolutionary approach to training. I can't think of anything like it in the history of T&F.
I'm kind of on the fence with this and I think I speak for a lot of people. On one hand, we can objectively say that Lagat is a tremendous talent. Moreover we know that Lagat has always emphasized quality over quantity in his training. Including taking entire months off and not running at all. Lagat credits that for his longevity.
On the other hand...52 second at the age of 41!? That really is unbelievable. figuratively speaking or not.
