Did you not read the part where I said it's great for the 84 athletes getting the scholarships? Of course helping 84 or even 4 is better than not helping anyone. Just don't think that helping that number is doing anything remotely significant to help with the high cost of college and the problem of student debt by giving scholarships to a tiny percentage of students.
And why do you think that if you eliminate international scholarships the best coaches would win? The coaches who do the best job recruiting US runners would win. Obviously some of those coaches will do a better job developing those US runners but do you really think there would ever be a level playing field if schools like Tulsa or East Tennessee State are recruiting against Oklahoma State or Oklahoma? There is not an unlmited supply of distance running talent. When a Nico Young goes to a school that's like New Mexico it means he's not available for New Mexico and they'll need to find someone else.
There's already not a level playing field because currently teams that win are the ones that have the most money to pay sketchy agents for Kenyan runners. That's not even coaching or recruiting. It's just paying a ton of money.
At least if everyone is recruiting American kids, those athletes are making decisions about which teams and coaches they like best. That's a lot more fair because a school with no money has a chance to sell the recruit on their team culture and athlete development.
But now if you don't have $100,000 to pay each year, then you can't even contact the top Kenyans.
There is never, never ,never, ever going to be a level playing field in college sports whether you give scholarships to foreign athletes or not because some schools have loads more money than others, are in more desirable locations than others, prioritize a particular sport more than others, and who knows what else. If you are more a "have not" than "have" one and you want to prioritize a particular sport you need to cast a wider recruiting net to bring in good athletes after the "have" schools have taken the cream of the recruiting crop.
Is there any example of Smith, Sudbury, or Gausen being questioned on this? I’d love to hear them rationalize their decisions and hopefully be pressed beyond a surface level answer. They must hear the noise of critics, be it randos on the boards here or probably even other coaches in their divisions. Can anyone link an interview or presser where these programs explain their philosophy?
Is there any example of Smith, Sudbury, or Gausen being questioned on this? I’d love to hear them rationalize their decisions and hopefully be pressed beyond a surface level answer. They must hear the noise of critics, be it randos on the boards here or probably even other coaches in their divisions. Can anyone link an interview or presser where these programs explain their philosophy?
What would be so hard to explain about a philosophy like "I do what I can to get the best results I can?"
Sh!tting on your own doorstep….. NCAA is one of the best development pools - flood it with irrelevant overage Africans and US athletes won’t even make it into the system
President Donald Trump will be making it harder for these coaches to continue to ignore the American runners. If any Maga influencers cared to look at the results you would see a reaction from the President as well. This was a ridiculous year with one of the most foreign dominated results in the top division.
President Donald Trump will be making it harder for these coaches to continue to ignore the American runners. If any Maga influencers cared to look at the results you would see a reaction from the President as well. This was a ridiculous year with one of the most foreign dominated results in the top division.
Looks like two more Townhall Athletics clients over to Washington State
This is a fantastic thread and I 100% with the overall sentiment here.
Every attempt to justify the hoard of internationals has been thoroughly debunked.
If something isn't done, many schools will soon have 17 Kenyans on their roster and zero Americans.
I think everyone can agree that would be entirely unacceptable. I think most fans would even agree that a 50-50 split is even inappropriate.
That's catastrophizing. The Midwest Regional was loaded with Kenyans at the front. I think about half of the first thirty men had Kenyan looking names. But there were 199 finishers and beyond the first thirty or so no one had a Kenyan sounding name. In the Mid Atlantic Regional maybe I missed someone but there were 197 finishers and no one's name looked Kenyan.
There really are just a handful of NCAA schools that take cross country really seriously and it seems likely those schools might bring in more Kenyans in the future. But most schools don't take cross country all that seriously. Do you think DePaul or Duquesne have the resources or desire to recruit a dozen Kenyans?
The number of opportunities for college cross country "lost" to US kids because there are a few dozen Kenyans in the NCAA now is quite small. Maybe your chance for a scholarship to New Mexico or Oklahoma State went to a Kenyan. If you were good enough for those schools to consider you there are many other D1 schools that will be interested.
FYI, De Paul has a Kenyan on the team. The kids an American and went to high school here in the US but his parents are immigrants. No issues with that.
I know for a fact that the Nebraska coach was on a recruiting trip to our area to watch some kids at conference championships. He told us who he was looking at. The people he was there to see weren't ultimately recruited because he took the Indian 800 m U20 champ that year. Nebraska just signed a Kenyan in the 800. Those are track and field spots that went to foreigners. It does happen.
That's catastrophizing. The Midwest Regional was loaded with Kenyans at the front. I think about half of the first thirty men had Kenyan looking names. But there were 199 finishers and beyond the first thirty or so no one had a Kenyan sounding name. In the Mid Atlantic Regional maybe I missed someone but there were 197 finishers and no one's name looked Kenyan.
There really are just a handful of NCAA schools that take cross country really seriously and it seems likely those schools might bring in more Kenyans in the future. But most schools don't take cross country all that seriously. Do you think DePaul or Duquesne have the resources or desire to recruit a dozen Kenyans?
The number of opportunities for college cross country "lost" to US kids because there are a few dozen Kenyans in the NCAA now is quite small. Maybe your chance for a scholarship to New Mexico or Oklahoma State went to a Kenyan. If you were good enough for those schools to consider you there are many other D1 schools that will be interested.
FYI, De Paul has a Kenyan on the team. The kids an American and went to high school here in the US but his parents are immigrants. No issues with that.
I know for a fact that the Nebraska coach was on a recruiting trip to our area to watch some kids at conference championships. He told us who he was looking at. The people he was there to see weren't ultimately recruited because he took the Indian 800 m U20 champ that year. Nebraska just signed a Kenyan in the 800. Those are track and field spots that went to foreigners. It does happen.
Honestly I am not really sympathetic to the idea that foreign athletes are taking away scholarships from US kids. I ran in college and paid my own way and later paid for two sons who ran in college and a niece who was just a normal non athletic student who needed financial help. Paying for college is a bear for an awful lot of people and if a kid manages to be good enough at something to get a school to pay for him to go there more power to him but if that school finds it more useful to pay another kid, maybe a foreign one or maybe not, to go there then that first kid needs to deal with the same problem millions of other college students do. I wish that kid well but just can't get into the idea that he's been wronged.
President Donald Trump will be making it harder for these coaches to continue to ignore the American runners. If any Maga influencers cared to look at the results you would see a reaction from the President as well. This was a ridiculous year with one of the most foreign dominated results in the top division.
Looks like two more Townhall Athletics clients over to Washington State
There's already not a level playing field because currently teams that win are the ones that have the most money to pay sketchy agents for Kenyan runners. That's not even coaching or recruiting. It's just paying a ton of money.
At least if everyone is recruiting American kids, those athletes are making decisions about which teams and coaches they like best. That's a lot more fair because a school with no money has a chance to sell the recruit on their team culture and athlete development.
But now if you don't have $100,000 to pay each year, then you can't even contact the top Kenyans.
There is never, never ,never, ever going to be a level playing field in college sports whether you give scholarships to foreign athletes or not because some schools have loads more money than others, are in more desirable locations than others, prioritize a particular sport more than others, and who knows what else. If you are more a "have not" than "have" one and you want to prioritize a particular sport you need to cast a wider recruiting net to bring in good athletes after the "have" schools have taken the cream of the recruiting crop.
This truly is the case. I went to college in the mountain West in the late '90s, and we viewed CU and BYU as the "haves" in our region for distance runners. They didn't offer meaningfully better financial aid packages than us, they didn't offer significantly better coaching or academics, they just had a lot of built-in advantages that suburban US kids liked better. The AD was serious about competing, chiefly in track, so the coaches followed the directive to cast a recruiting net beyond the US talent pool. The program had a history of success with foreigners going back to the '70s and even late '60s, so it wasn't anything novel by that point. It's only a problem now because the internet allows the entitled complainers to blow things out of proportion in an echo chamber.
So you would have no problem with prime Lebron James being able to play NCAA basketball at age 30 since he never went to college?
You'd be fine with Noah Lyles joining the NCAA after making all his pro money?
That's one of the dumbest opinions ever.
No, I am in favor of age limits.
I would, however, lose zero sleep if Cooper Lutkenhaus went to college and competed in the NCAA. Carson Beck is getting millions why should I be bothered by Cooper getting paid and running at NCAAs?
As I told you all months ago - the days of college running excluding professionals is over. Get used to it.
I would, however, lose zero sleep if Cooper Lutkenhaus went to college and competed in the NCAA. Carson Beck is getting millions why should I be bothered by Cooper getting paid and running at NCAAs?
As I told you all months ago - the days of college running excluding professionals is over. Get used to it.
What defines a professional runner? Taking money from a shoe company, thats NIL
