Progression of Cheating wrote:
I always thought it was likely he had an accomplice (or two) simply because of the parking situation. If you've spent decades in L.A., you know how difficult it is to find parking in a lot of areas. An accomplice would be able to keep the car running in no-parking zones, or drive slowly in circles while waiting for Dr. Meza.
I think at this point, we can stop referring to him as Dr.
Progression of Cheating wrote:
I always thought it was likely he had an accomplice (or two) simply because of the parking situation. If you've spent decades in L.A., you know how difficult it is to find parking in a lot of areas. An accomplice would be able to keep the car running in no-parking zones, or drive slowly in circles while waiting for Dr. Meza.
I love puzzles so this story fascinates me. How could it have been done?
It could have been done with a driver or it could have been done solo with multiple bicycles prepositioned on the course. It could not have been done with one bicycle. Here's one example why.
Frank appears to enter the LA Marathon course at 18.7km and runs to the 20km mat. (The split time to 25km mat starts then.) Frank's split time from 20 to 25k mats is 20:02.
Assuming he doubles back to the bike immediately after crossing the 20k mat, it would take 6 1/2 minutes at 8min/mile to get back to the bike. He is next seen entering the course at the intersection of Doheny and SM Blvd. That's about 3.9mi from the 18.7km entry point by what appears to be the fastest bike route.
At 16mph (pretty fast for an M70, especially considering stop signs, traffic lights, and traffic), biking that distance would take about 14 1/2 minutes. That's a cumulative time of 21 minutes... not counting unlocking the bike, locking it at the other end, and walking to the entry point. Yet Frank can be seen waiting at the intersection of Doheny and SM Blvd before running the last 30 seconds or so to the 25k mat. Factoring in the wait time and the run to the mat, he would have had to be at the intersection of SM Blvd and Doheny at roughly the 19-minute mark of this split in order to make the split at 20:02. It's not possible without something I'm missing.
So how could it have been done? It would require either a driver or multiple bikes prepositioned on the course. It wouldn't require 8 bikes. Some of the splits could have been done by doubling back to the same bike, but this one could not be. It might have required only one bike prepositioned near the 20k mat. It could have been done at every split that did not require such a long run (from 18.7 to 20k) to the mat.
Could he have just parked the bike near the 20k mat and jogged back to his entry point at 18.7k, giving him a shorter run back to the bike? Not really. It would have solved the problem for the 20-25k split, but it would have created a similar problem for the 10-15k split.
Thus, it's a minimum of two bikes. Or an accomplice to drive the car. I favor the solo bike approach.
fisky wrote:
Thus, it's a minimum of two bikes. Or an accomplice to drive the car. I favor the solo bike approach.
I'm not clear on how we ruled out him driving a car or a motorcycle or an electrically powered bike, based on my one experience of these on a holiday abroad, it is very little effort to do 20 mph.
I just thought of this (my apologies if it's been brought up before)...
but what about bike share? I know LA has bike share program and looking at their map, it ironically lines up almost perfectly with the LA Marathon course. A bit harder to prove in Mesa, but they too have a bikeshare program....Plus you can always reserve a bike ahead of time...
fisky wrote:
Progression of Cheating wrote:
I always thought it was likely he had an accomplice (or two) simply because of the parking situation. If you've spent decades in L.A., you know how difficult it is to find parking in a lot of areas. An accomplice would be able to keep the car running in no-parking zones, or drive slowly in circles while waiting for Dr. Meza.
I love puzzles so this story fascinates me. How could it have been done?
It could have been done with a driver or it could have been done solo with multiple bicycles prepositioned on the course. It could not have been done with one bicycle. Here's one example why.
Frank appears to enter the LA Marathon course at 18.7km and runs to the 20km mat. (The split time to 25km mat starts then.) Frank's split time from 20 to 25k mats is 20:02.
Assuming he doubles back to the bike immediately after crossing the 20k mat, it would take 6 1/2 minutes at 8min/mile to get back to the bike. He is next seen entering the course at the intersection of Doheny and SM Blvd. That's about 3.9mi from the 18.7km entry point by what appears to be the fastest bike route.
At 16mph (pretty fast for an M70, especially considering stop signs, traffic lights, and traffic), biking that distance would take about 14 1/2 minutes. That's a cumulative time of 21 minutes... not counting unlocking the bike, locking it at the other end, and walking to the entry point. Yet Frank can be seen waiting at the intersection of Doheny and SM Blvd before running the last 30 seconds or so to the 25k mat. Factoring in the wait time and the run to the mat, he would have had to be at the intersection of SM Blvd and Doheny at roughly the 19-minute mark of this split in order to make the split at 20:02. It's not possible without something I'm missing.
So how could it have been done? It would require either a driver or multiple bikes prepositioned on the course. It wouldn't require 8 bikes. Some of the splits could have been done by doubling back to the same bike, but this one could not be. It might have required only one bike prepositioned near the 20k mat. It could have been done at every split that did not require such a long run (from 18.7 to 20k) to the mat.
Could he have just parked the bike near the 20k mat and jogged back to his entry point at 18.7k, giving him a shorter run back to the bike? Not really. It would have solved the problem for the 20-25k split, but it would have created a similar problem for the 10-15k split.
Thus, it's a minimum of two bikes. Or an accomplice to drive the car. I favor the solo bike approach.
One thing that is glaring is his family has to know. How would his kid(s) or wife(?) not be in attendance for at least ONE of these events? Do they just go to the end and wait 2:5X to see him finish? No one is on part of the course and wondering how they never see him? LA is easy to spectate via car. And when they do see him they don’t wonder about wardrobe changes?
And friends — the dude is prominent in running. How do they not get clued in when they don’t see him on the course? The guy is supposedly running times that out him way out front. We saw the videos, it’s not like you can miss him due to a lot of runners around.
And for both friends and family... when you do see Frank he is ALWAYS losing ground to the runners around him. It is painfully obvious something is wrong.
https://bikeshare.metro.net/stations/ExpertKipWatcher wrote:
fisky wrote:
Thus, it's a minimum of two bikes. Or an accomplice to drive the car. I favor the solo bike approach.
I'm not clear on how we ruled out him driving a car or a motorcycle or an electrically powered bike, based on my one experience of these on a holiday abroad, it is very little effort to do 20 mph.
Progression of Cheating wrote:
I always thought it was likely he had an accomplice (or two) simply because of the parking situation. If you've spent decades in L.A., you know how difficult it is to find parking in a lot of areas. An accomplice would be able to keep the car running in no-parking zones, or drive slowly in circles while waiting for Dr. Meza.
Agreed. Especially on race day in L.A., all those road closures and diversions would make parking even more difficult than it usually is, thus making a complicit driver (or drivers) crucial for Frank to pull his scam off properly.
As for those in this thread speculating that Frank might have used a bike or bikes to get to the timing mats, I find it doubtful that someone of his age, weight, and less-than-spectacular fitness (as witnessed by the little running he did do that was captured on video)would have been able to do that much cycling at the speed necessary to hit the mats at the right times.
Frank... a word of advice...
So far, this story has been limited to this forum and Marathon Investigation, but it's only a matter of time until there's a slow news day and it hits the major media. Previous course-cutter threads here have lasted for two years or more. This is not going away. You need to nip this in the bud right now before it gets any worse.
I'd suggest you call Derek and tell all. The cover-up is always worse than the action. Get it all out. Don't make excuses. Say something like...
"I did it first in ( whenever ). I got away with it. It was a rush. So I did it again. And again. I have no excuses. I apologize to everyone and I've asked Derek for advice on what I should do to make amends."
...and then shut up. No excuses.
Right now, your friends, associates, patients, and neighbors don't know about this and, frankly, most of them couldn't care less. In fact, many of your nonrunning friends would blow this off if you told them about it. Everyone makes mistakes. Just own up to it.
That could change if you make it worse by digging in your heels.
Hercule Skid Row wrote:
Progression of Cheating wrote:
I always thought it was likely he had an accomplice (or two) simply because of the parking situation. If you've spent decades in L.A., you know how difficult it is to find parking in a lot of areas. An accomplice would be able to keep the car running in no-parking zones, or drive slowly in circles while waiting for Dr. Meza.
Agreed. Especially on race day in L.A., all those road closures and diversions would make parking even more difficult than it usually is, thus making a complicit driver (or drivers) crucial for Frank to pull his scam off properly.
As for those in this thread speculating that Frank might have used a bike or bikes to get to the timing mats, I find it doubtful that someone of his age, weight, and less-than-spectacular fitness (as witnessed by the little running he did do that was captured on video)would have been able to do that much cycling at the speed necessary to hit the mats at the right times.
Totally agree. He’s done this in multiple marathons over different courses going back years. It isn’t just Frank and the LR Sleuths that know the truth. He has help.
The Metro Bike is a decent thought, but what year did they start in LA? Are there stations in enough proximity to the course?
Also, is Phoenix over run with stations?
bill the pillow wrote:
The Metro Bike is a decent thought, but what year did they start in LA? Are there stations in enough proximity to the course?
Also, is Phoenix over run with stations?
I believe LA's bike share started in 2015 or 2016 and it appears that there are few stations around the course but haven't looked closely.
Phoenix/Mesa has a bike share:
http://gridbikes.com/Uber/Lyft/ Cab/Bike Share/Metro//Friends or Family's cars/Bib Mule: One or a combination of all.
Where there's a will there's a way. Right, Frank?
I did check Phoenix, and yes there are ride share bikes all over. I'd say that's in play, and it may be a combination of methods to get to the check points like you say. However it was done, it's actually an impressive feat.
A bike for both LA and Phoenix is quite possible, but I really think there was a driver/accomplice. LA is designed around automobiles, and is not bike-friendly at all. It's downright dangerous in many areas, though that might have improved in recent years. Riding a bike along the course would be a complete PITA, with the lack of bike lanes. Phoenix would be much easier, but still, not nearly as easy as having a driver. This guy is lazy. I just don't think he'd go through the effort to pedal a bike for 26 miles.
FM on one bike and an accomplice on another.
FM jumps off and starts his "run", while accomplice pushes the two bikes further up the course, it eliminates locking/unlocking and reduces the distance/time to backtrack.
or they use a tandem.
Technically the "Phoenix Marathon" in in Mesa, AZ. There are bike/scooter stations around the Phoenix metro area, but definitely not near the first 5-10 miles of the marathon course. The start line is out in a rural area.
I noticed the Phoenix Marathon site has free hi-resolution photo downloads. Here's FM's gallery:
https://freephotos.finisherpix.com/gallery/100460/11020/1
Click on a picture, then click on the "Free Hi-Res Download" button.
Of course all of his pictures at at the finish line.
In this one (hi-res download) you can see his watch. It looks like an old-school Timex/Casio. There's not enough resolution to read the watch face.
https://freephotos.finisherpix.com/photo/100460-100142-1005497098/11020/1
It looks like Phoenix has timing mats only at 10k, 13.1 miles, and 20 miles. He hit the 10k mat, which is at the top of a ~1.5 mile uphill segment on the course. This is the only uphill portion of the entire course. This part goes through a neighborhood that's mostly blocked off to traffic during the race time. There's basically one way in and one way out. (The neighbors complain about this on race day.) There are some side streets on the hill segment, but many/most of them are gated communities. It's puzzling how he could have made it to that spot with a car/bike without being noticed. Oh, the mystery...
fisky wrote:
Frank... a word of advice...
It's funny how you think this could be escalated in order to somehow hurt him. People who know Frankie already know what he is doing. Why do think some anonymous poster keeps having to drop clues.
A word of advice, lay off the weed a bit. Frankie don't need your advice. Frankie and his friends are laughing their a$$es off at how serious you goofs are taking this whole thing. People who know Frankie already know what he is doing. Why do think some anonymous poster keeps dropping clues. Even the current age group record holder doesn't take this that seriously. It's just hobby jogging and the only ones who care about it are a bunch of over-reaching self-righteous slobs who couldn't even keep up with Frank's true marathon time.
All right, back to it bois. The microwave just dinged so I'm gonna go get my popcorn.
Definitely not perfect, could have done a better job with the volume levels on the videos versus my narration. Regardless, I think it is easily view-able and hopefully somewhat interesting to a wider audience than just those of us on this thread! If you feel so inclined, please share on social media!
Out of touch with reality wrote:
fisky wrote:
Frank... a word of advice...
It's funny how you think this could be escalated in order to somehow hurt him. People who know Frankie already know what he is doing. Why do think some anonymous poster keeps having to drop clues.
A word of advice, lay off the weed a bit. Frankie don't need your advice. Frankie and his friends are laughing their a$$es off at how serious you goofs are taking this whole thing. People who know Frankie already know what he is doing. Why do think some anonymous poster keeps dropping clues. Even the current age group record holder doesn't take this that seriously. It's just hobby jogging and the only ones who care about it are a bunch of over-reaching self-righteous slobs who couldn't even keep up with Frank's true marathon time.
All right, back to it bois. The microwave just dinged so I'm gonna go get my popcorn.
I’m sure he was laughing when he was dropped from the Loyola web page, realized his coaching and mentoring days are over and that those kids will mock him for years. When videos extolling his virtues disappear from the internet he must chuckle. As he warms up to the idea that the internet will outlast us all and in spite of any good works he did, he’s now a dirty cheat forever he must just belly laugh.
Or not.
Psychos laugh even in the electric chair.
Accomplices would be helpful but not necessary to pull off cheating at LAM.
1. Metro bike ride wasn’t around til 2016. Those bikes are clunky and scream look at me. Frank is not trying to draw attention to himself. So rule them out.
2. The Hollywood section where Frank jumps off the course from his “little boy break” has a 90 degree turn. He could have parked his transportation at a midpoint and saved time since he doesn’t have to run back against the course.
3. A motor scooter, electric bike, or any combo of bikes wouldn’t be too difficult to pull off. People bike the course and cheer their friends on without much difficulty.
4. A previous post stated the Phoenix marathon course would be very easy to drive and jump the mats.