Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Don't worry about the trolls. You are progressing nice. People forget sirpoc was basically a 19 min runners. It's not like he was only doing 25km a week. He was still managing like 70km and much slower than he is now. So just keep it up and I am interested in your progress.

As for the guy mocking sirpoc cadence. Who cares? It is unusually high (7:00-30 miles) at well over 190, pushing and workout portions even at sub threshold , well over 210. However, silly it might look or sound to someone who has swallowed a jack Daniels guide from decades ago, I would give me left arm or sell my grandma to run 15:40 at 40 years old on a road course! Let's be honest, even by letsrun standards that's good.

My 10 mile pr is 1:00:11 (6:00 pace) and half low 1:20 (around 6:05-6:10) what pace should I be doing k or mile reps?

Yes it is. Now lexel is trolling you😄

I didn't post the study, lexel did. But in answer to your question, vertical oscillation is just one easily measured variable of "running form". I don't pay too much attention to it unless the runner is varying that vertical oscillation a lot from one race distance to another.

When I post about "improving running skill" I am referring to improvements in efficiency and endurance which happens naturally and gradually with the right training.

Right! I wish we could parse the sidebar convo w/Coggan into a separate thread. And keep the anecdotes (like the 21 to 19 guy) up so others can see that this training is working for some.

We just have to wait until someone mentions Coggan on a different forum, then he will be busy trolling there for a few months.

How quickly can you build to this method? Are people going straight from 4-5 hours to 7.5+ hours per week or is it a gradual build? If it’s a gradual build, what did that build look like?

I was stuck around 6-7 hours (50mpw) for awhile. When I switched to this method I was able to go directly to 9 hours (65mpw) feeling much better. I would suggest the build up is typical in terms of keeping it gradual if coming from a lower volume style of training. But I would guess for most the trend is the opposite, already having very reasonable mileage but trying to break out of a cycle of where progress has stalled.

6:00

If you're happy running 55 miles a week for 20 flat 5k then go for it. But it's a crap result and a terrible way to train.

This winter I trained at about 40-45 mpw with about of those being threshold. (Less mileage at the start of winter, more towards the end) I did ~ 4xmile twice a week and ~ 16x400 once per week, everything else was just easy mileage at about 8:30 per mile and some strides. The mile threshold reps were done at around 6:20 - 6:10 (1:30 rest) and the 400s at around 1:30-1:25 (45s rest). I had no injuries and was super consistent with months of no weeks under 40 miles. I had barely any speed training going into my first 3200 of the year and I still dropped my pr from 10:5x to 10:20 in subpar conditions. This threshold stuff really works and I highly recommend it.

For a beginner to get up to 90km per week is good going. Presume you are also not a youngster. Good work, keep at it.

I appreciate the support but I’ll be just fine haha. Honestly, I couldn’t resist the temptation to post something factually accurate but contextually nuanced, then bet Andy would start his response by belittling my intelligence. It’s said to be an even more accurate algorithm than WKO5. Training forums the world over have validated it... now it's LetRun's turn : )

You should join the strava group, seriously! I don't even use it for any of the training log/analysis aspects. Just for the group. Really positive vibes and interesting stories and discussion from a lot of people. I'll email you the link if you don't feel like searching for it here haha

This is what I’ve been doing:

55km/week. 4 runs.
Easy 10km. 8 x 1km w 60s R at 4:05/km (threshold). 4 x 2 km w 60s R at 4:10 (subT). 20km long run.

Works out to be 16km at pace (30%ish).

Just hit 18:20 for the 5km and hoping to go sub 18 in the coming weeks. Knocked 30s off so happy with that.

Am I on the money with this? What would you change - I was concerned my workouts were too long considering I’m a slower runner.

You really seem to really be maximizing your time!

4 days a week and to hit those workouts and those times...id really just stay with the same schedule and progress the paces as you progress.

Looks like you found a schedule that works for you for sure

I think the issue is partially that the system is SO simple and uncomplicated people are asking, "What's the catch?" There's no catch or gotcha--just simple, consistent sub-thresh workouts and EZ running. As you've noted in your workout plan above.

Even though I've just started I'm noticing the EZ paces start to come down and the HRs too, EVEN with the heat in Columbus. Did 9 sets of 2 on, 1 off yesterday due to a time crunch. Went by feel--7:15-7:20-ish and it felt easy. Legs were not cooked at all the day after.

Nice job. The strava group has a spreadsheet most use - based on Daniel VDOT level - 18:20 for 5k works out to a 5:19 mile which is 55.5 on daniels and gives these for thresh levels

400m reps 226.8s (3:46) per 1k

1k reps 232.4 (3:52) per 1k

Your results are good evidence you don't need to push the limits on this - you are about 20s per k slower than the recommended and improved a lot. The other thing it shows is something I suspected - easy days are not that necessary - u basically have 3 days of nothing - which is as easy as it gets - and yes, still improved a lot.

Thanks everyone! Good to hear I’m on the right track as I’d stagnated at the 18:50 for a while.

Yes it’s definitely time to update my paces as I’d been working off my old 5km. Have to say I still find 1km reps below 4 pace challenging so I’ve been erring on the conservative side.

Have a 6 week build into a half marathon and hoping to smash my PB of 1:27:30.

Been absolutely brilliant finding this thread.