Sub 2h30 Spring Marathon - The Quest For Amateur Glory Rides Again!

@geoff capes wise words, you only know what time shape your in once you've completed the race.

I'm sorry to keep taking the oxygen out of this thread but (as shown) I don't know what I'm doing and feel like you'll have some experience to answer my questions. Assuming you've got mass to lose (Fat) do you subscribed to 2 seconds/mi per pound fact that gets thrown around. I'm lighter then 4 weeks ago and might be lighter still in 6 weeks and wondering if I can read into that (take as a positive that I'm quicker).

I've got a 5k on Friday so I'll report back with my time and you can eye roll at my splits when my over confidence lead to a 4:50 first mile and I finished in 18 minutes.

the 2sec/mi per pound, or whatever it is, is not BS but it only works if you actually have weight to lose without losing power/strength. I've found that I never need to think about my weight when I'm fit. I lose weight naturally without any change in diet, but for an important race I will alter my diet SLIGHTLY.

My goal race has been cancelled, and I'm not sure if the other two races in mid-October will happen (I actually doubt it, one of them hasn't announced anything since April).

I'm thinking of cutting my preparation short by 4 weeks and running the Darß-marathon on Sep 20. It's an official (measured) course, but there's little asphalt and has exposed (windy) sections. I definitely won't be able to run 2:30 there, but I do think sub 2:40 should be doable if the weather isn't horrible. I'll keep on training until next Sunday and then make a final decision...

@RunningInEurope Sorry your races have been cancelling/inevitable been cancelled. Tough choices on what to do, good luck deciding and good luck with races. Its difficult to keep motivated at times like these.

@reed cheers, I've still got a little belly (no sign of 6 pack) so taking that as Ive gkt weight to lose. I say this after eating an Dominoes...

I completed my 5k in 15:41. Let me know if you think this makes 2.30 marathon achievable or best to leave the aim at originally 2.34 based of this information.

Ultra Bear wrote:

@geoff capes wise words, you only know what time shape your in once you've completed the race.

I've got a 5k on Friday so I'll report back with my time and you can eye roll at my splits when my over confidence lead to a 4:50 first mile and I finished in 18 minutes.

well I checked your strava and you literally ran 4:50 the first mile (50ft downhill, worth 4:56) but hung in there for 15:41.

that's basically equal to my road PB, and probably indicates something like 2:32 with your background. I know guys who would run 2:29 off that time, but that's unexpected.

@reed The course lead to a fast 1st mile, slow 2nd mile so my pacing wasn't far off (maybe too quick out the blocks).

Id agree. If I went 15.30, I was going for the 2.30. Over 15.45 I was admitting 2.34 was right all along. Thats why deep down I recon I agree on 2.32/2.33.

Maybe once (fingers crossed I've got some Alphaflys I'll magically be a bit quicker).

albarunner wrote:

This is the marathon I referred to in an earlier post - entries now live and filling quickly. With London , Paris, Frankfurt etc cancelled, this is a great option for any UK (and European I guess) based runners who can demonstrate a sub 2:40 capability. I understand the organisers are being pretty loose with that and considering previous marathons and halfs that would indicate it's a realistic goal.

https://runcheshire.niftyentries.com/Wrexham-Elite-Marathon

My training is coming together reasonably well for it. I've got a PB of just under 2:31 from 2018 and after a couple of stop-start blocks since then, feel like a sub 2:30 is coming together. 22 miles with 2 x 5 miles at 5:40 min/miling last weekend has been a good confidence booster!

I highly doubt the Wrexham marathon will be allowed to go ahead with the current restrictions that we have in Wales. The first “Triathlon pilot” event is taking place this weekend with only 100 entries allowed. There would need to be a massive change in restrictions next week to allow 400 runners to take part in an event. It is possible that they could run it as a pilot event to reintroduce mass road running but I can’t see it personally. The Welsh government are being extra cautious opening things back up. Let’s hope I’m wrong ??

@Ultra Bear good stuff!

I've basically decided to run the "nature" marathon because I'd rather run a slower marathon that's definitely happening than a fast marathon that's not happening. I believe that despite the lacking of asphalt I should be able to run 2:35 if the weather is decent. The course is very flat but exposed. With a strong headwind it's probably not possible, but we'll see... I don't think I will recover fast enough within a month to really run the other race (although it's certainly a possibility).

In my medium-long runs and long runs I've done a whole bunch of running at or under 4:00/km, which feels very comfortable. I do those on undulating loops with regular shoes, so I'm confident that 3:40/km should be very doable on next %s, maybe even a little faster.

I hope for y'all that Wrexham is taking place. Here in Germany, all kinds of things are taking place, we even had a large outdoor dance party a few weeks ago, but races are still very few.

@runningineurope I hope you do well and racing is racing even if it means the time is difficult to judge due to course.

Wrexham issued an update today and email was not positive. Im also signed up to Athens Marathon in Nov and half was cancelled yesterday for 20th Sept. Not a positive day for me for future races, both very much in doubt.

Its only running I suppose but feel I'd love a PB to show for all the effort.

well, here in California my training is being wrecked by wildfire smoke. two days off this week but still managed 66 miles. Was hoping for close to 90. ah well

did one workout - 6x1mi tempo at 5:30 pace on the road, with 400m float at around 6:30/mi. felt too hard honestly, harder than tempo effort. long run was 22 miles on trails in 3.5hrs (had to drive out of town to get out of the smoke so just kept running because I knew I might have to skip another day).

Strong training in the circumstances, well done!

My A race of Wrexham Elite marathon has been pushed back 2 weeks/cancelled (from 4th Oct to 18th Oct).

This Sunday I'm racing Cheshire Half Marathon which has some elites in for London. My aim is 1.11.30-1.12.00, taking really easy this week.

Any tips for a half that someone can utilise in last 4 days and/or race day would be appreciated.

@reed that sucks. Looks like things are getting better now?

I've had a niggle in my left hip (I haven't had it checked, but I *think* it's where the IT band attaches). It's especially sore after running and when I run a bit faster (marathon tempo and faster). I think I've got it under control, and as I already have been tapering I'm going to my race this Sunday. I'm a little worried that it might extend to the rest of my left leg and compromise my gait. If that happens within 10km I might just call it a day, if it happens towards km 35 I'll push on ;).

It's going to be fun to race again. As I posted before, this won't be a very fast course, so I'm going to see how it goes. I do think somewhere between 2:35 and 2:40 should be very possible depending on the circumstances.

Here more and more races are starting up again. There's another marathon on Oct 18th (Cuxhaven), if I recover quickly I might see if I can race a HM or 10K there. In any case, after this marathon my plan is to do some lydiard-style base training before starting another cycle somewhere in Nov/Dec. If all goes well I do hope I can run 2:30 by next spring. It won't be easy: I've got to work hard, stay injury free and be smart about it, but I feel that it's very possible.

@runningineurope How did you get on? Hope the body held out!

I raced a half marathon yesterday (Cheshire half) and finished in 71.28. First 7 miles I was on for 70.30 but I just couldn't hang on so added 10 seconds per mile for last 6. 70.30 would have given me belief that 2.30 was attainable.

71.28 leaves me thinking that aiming at 2.30 is a recipe for disaster and 2.33 is more fair aim. Any thoughts appreciated. Anyone managed to do a close conversion of half to full.

71.28 was a PB and club record so I was obviously still well happy but very hungover from all beers celebrating yesterday. Time to be good for 4 weeks.

@Ultra Bear awesome effort, congratulations!

My race went both better and worse than expected. Until 15k I had absolutely no pain, and even though the hip played up after that point, I don't have the feeling that it compromised my time.

The first half was very easy, I came through in almost exactly 1:17:30. About 10k of that was asphalt, the rest forest roads. Even though I felt good running through the forest, after about 20k I hit the asphalt and it made a massive difference in grip.

I ran in the lead from the very start and finished first as well. At around 22k I remember saying to the cyclist accompanying me (1st man) that it still felt very easy. However, from 23k onwards it was a sandy road where I struggled with grip, and almost sprained my ankle twice. The last 10k or so it changed to very fine gravel, which is great for long runs but not so great when you are very tired but want to run fast.

I lost a lot of time during the final 10k, but pushed on. I managed to win by 4 minutes, but finished only in 2:45. Was disappointed with my time, but it's still a PB and I do think I got the most out of me given the course, the day, the limited preparation (had to cut short my 18 week plan by 5 or 6 weeks), the hip and the lack of competition.

It was really cool to run in the lead all the way, with a huge gap and accompanied by the "1st man" bicycle. Never had that before, not sure if I'll ever have that again, so I enjoyed every single moment.

The first half felt so easy that I honestly believe I am in 2:35 shape, even though I ran a full 10 minutes slower in the end. I think I need more hard efforts (long runs with MP effort, and especially tune-up races) and an optimal course (all paved) to do it though. So despite being disappointed in my final time, I actually learned a lot, worked hard to get the win and feel very positive about it.

I am going to my GP to get the hip checked out tomorrow, my guess is that it might be bursitis, but we'll see. Not much I can do about it now anyway.

I have the confidence that I can run quite a bit faster on a paved and flat course with the right preparation. So I'm going to be training for 2:25 in spring.

Oh, here's my Strava link btw. Perfect example of hitting the wall =). https://www.strava.com/activities/4086165256

@runningineurope Epic racing and congrats on victory.

Great write up and 100% agree with you. Id really struggle on a course like that and would be at least 10 plus mins behind on PB.

Champion!

you'll probably never know how much that course slowed you down unless you know other sub-3hr marathoners who have run it plus regular road marathons.

ultra bear - 71:28 would be good enough for me to attempt 2:30. I think 2:33 equals closer to 72:30, for a guy like me who is fairly even across distances. Conversions from 5k to 26.2 usually work well for me.

I'm still dealing with wildfire smoke but managed 87 miles last week.

on tuesday I hit the track and finally caught a morning with no smoke and 60 F (maybe 18 C). Did 3x1600m with full recovery, 5min jog. Plan my friend had was to hit under 5min for all 3 but I wasn't confident I could do it. I've never done mile repeats with such long recovery before, I usually do 3min. I led every lap of all 3 1600s and split 4:59 for the first one. felt good about how easy it felt, and cut down to 4:56 for #2 feeling even better. on #3 I wanted to cut it down some more and split 2:25/2:23 for a 4:48, still under control. felt like I could've done a 4th rep, so I don't think I overdid it or anything.

rest of the week was random as I did a 4hr trail run on Friday, a 2hr trail run Saturday, and 12mi on the roads on Sunday.

hoping for 90+ miles this week but so far today (monday) it's been smoky so I might have to take the day off. about 10 weeks til my 26.2 time trial.

@Ultra Bear Thank you, and thanks @reed. I don't know if it's just the course that slowed me down, probably for sure by a few minutes but I don't believe it slowed me down by 10 minutes.

How to run a guaranteed sub 2:30 marathon? A little help here;

M: 50-60 min easy at 7:10 mile pace

Tu; 20 x 400m at 73-74 sec, rec=wait easy walking back to 120 bpm

We: 50-60 min easy at 7:10 mile pace

Th: 70-80 min easy at 7:10 mile pace

Fr: LT-intervals to a total of 6-10 miles at 5:22 mile pace , rec= wait easy walking back to 120 bpm

Sa: 90 min - 2 hours 40 min at easy pace 7:10 mile pace and last 10 - 40 min in intervals or sustained at LT-pace

Su: Day off

This same way I have coached 4 elite men marathoners from 2:07- 2:10 and a lady debut marathoner 2:26. Functions at all levels! Good luck!

- The Wizard -