robert678 wrote:
Chobits wrote:
Oh dear.
But........ Hassan?!
Wild wild stuff.
Of course, the big dawgs (Kenya and Ethiopia) remain mostly unscathed.
Has a Saladbar athlete ever actually tested positive?
It's really easy to pass a drug test. They're more intelligence tests than anything else. Just look at Lance Armstrong.
And if you test positive, just blame tainted beef, a tainted supplement, or frequent and passionate kissing.
qw wrote:
My comment will be lost but anyway...
USADA has done great witch hunt to burn Salazar's career to dust for some laughable carnitine infusions and testo gel experiments while all others use EPO and steroids like bread and butter. You Americans are like envious neighbors ready to eat alive your own guy for anything. Worst part is now lot's of great athletes will be trashed around the board for just being couched by Salazar who really has done nothing more wrong than any other and infact was regularly communicating USADA to check if he's not crossing the line. The fact that he used carnitine proves only that he never did the heavyweight stuff. WADA has become a joke, distributing 4 year bans around for food supplements that general population uses daily and in the same time proving they are not able to catch any real fish. I feel sorry for Salazar and his athletes.
Proof that people will support a cheater if they believe that others cheat worse. You can’t even understand the difference between WADA and USADA.
I’m glad the US doping authorities have standards and values that supersede Salazar’s.
rojo wrote:
It's almost midnight in the US and I"m exhausted and the staff in Doha is even more tired as it's 7 am there. So I'm going to go bed.
The decisions are both out. I've only skimmed the Alberto one. Maybe while I sleep people can read them and find the key takeaways.
The conclusion of Alberto's is actually very pro-Alberto considering they are handing him a 4-year ban. It appears the believe he actually did the tesosterone experiment legitimately to see if Rupp could be sabotaged after Rupp allegedly had something rubbed on him at a meet by Chris Whetstine. Their are contemperaneous emails backing that claim up.
That being said, it's clear the L-Carnitine stuff was clearly illegal.
But here s the conclusion. What I don't get it is it seems to ignore the l-carinitine which was a clear violation in my book.
USADA wrote:
The Panel notes that the Respondent does not appear to have been motivated by any bad
intention to commit the violations the Panel found. In fact, the Panel was struck by the
amount of care generally taken by Respondent to ensure that whatever new technique or
method or substance he was going to try was lawful under the World Anti-Doping Code,
with USADA’s witness characterizing him as the coach they heard from the most with
respect to trying to ensure that he was complying with his obligations. The Panel has
taken pains to note that Respondent made unintentional mistakes that violated the rules,
apparently motivated by his desire to provide the very best results and training for athletes
under his care. Unfortunately, that desire clouded his judgment in some instances, when
his usual focus on the rules appears to have lapsed. The Panel is required to apply the
relevant law, the World Anti-Doping Code and its positive law enactments in the rules of
international sports federations, in discharging its duty, and here that required the Panel
to find the violations it did
See them here:
https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/Salazar-AAA-Decision-1.pdfhttps://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/Brown_Final-Award.pdfLEt me know what you find as I sleep.
Surprised they spoke so highly of Alberto and then slapped him with a ban.
The Panel finds that all athletes received under 50ml of the lcarnitine EXCEPT for Steve Magness. So the panel said Steve was an athlete since ran in a usatf cross country race. Wow, great for the athletes but surprised this is what the main takedown was.
fortherecord wrote:
Klosterhalfen has always been coached by Pete Julian
Does she have TUE's?
At this exact second countries like Ethiopia and Kenya continue to dominate marathoning while having no governing body that overlooks the country as USADA does the US. WADA is great and all but extremely ineffective. I’m guess I’m fine with them busting him as he crossed some very fine lines but we have a way bigger problem overseas and those guys are blatantly getting away with it while we bust Salazar for such minimal offenses.
I don’t think we should let Salazar traffic testosterone just because east Africa has a doping problem. Call me crazy.
Nickers11 wrote:
Why put out this release in the midst of the sport’s biggest event? We all know the sport has problems but it also needs to allow itself to be showcased - to sabotage it like this is just stupid and myopic. The investigation has been going for 4 f’ing years - just release it after 4 years and 1 week.
Many who have watched Tagart say he's a lot like Salazar: He likes to win, and he will do whatever to make sure he does.
Here's what the judge in one of the Armstrong cases said about Tygart: "USADA's conduct raises serious questions about whether its real interest in charging Armstrong is to combat doping, or if it is acting according to less noble motives...it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that USADA is motivated more by politics and a desire for media attention than faithful adherence to its obligations to USOC."
Of course, in the end, Tagart got Armstrong, and that's what matters, right?
To think that Salazar got a ban for doping and I don’t think anyone from NOP has ever cracked 2:05 in the marathon. Just imagine the amount of drugs that Kipchoge and Bekele are injecting to get to 2:01.... the margin from 2:01 to 2:05 is insane.
LoneStarXC wrote:
qw wrote:
My comment will be lost but anyway...
USADA has done great witch hunt to burn Salazar's career to dust for some laughable carnitine infusions and testo gel experiments while all others use EPO and steroids like bread and butter. You Americans are like envious neighbors ready to eat alive your own guy for anything. Worst part is now lot's of great athletes will be trashed around the board for just being couched by Salazar who really has done nothing more wrong than any other and infact was regularly communicating USADA to check if he's not crossing the line. The fact that he used carnitine proves only that he never did the heavyweight stuff. WADA has become a joke, distributing 4 year bans around for food supplements that general population uses daily and in the same time proving they are not able to catch any real fish. I feel sorry for Salazar and his athletes.
Sleazy Sal used testosterone on his athletes, not just L-Carnitine. Testosterone is definitely “heavyweight stuff”.
No, he did not. He tested it on non-athlete. Makes difference.
Also USADA clearly states in their paper that Salazar went great lengths to do everything he can to be in compliance with antidoping rules.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that Rupp’s charts show him being on testosterone medication, that Al tested the amount of testosterone it took to trigger a positive test, and that syringes and testosterone were found in Alberto’s possession at training camp.
sleazazar wrote:
qw wrote:
My comment will be lost but anyway...
USADA has done great witch hunt to burn Salazar's career to dust for some laughable carnitine infusions and testo gel experiments while all others use EPO and steroids like bread and butter. You Americans are like envious neighbors ready to eat alive your own guy for anything. Worst part is now lot's of great athletes will be trashed around the board for just being couched by Salazar who really has done nothing more wrong than any other and infact was regularly communicating USADA to check if he's not crossing the line. The fact that he used carnitine proves only that he never did the heavyweight stuff. WADA has become a joke, distributing 4 year bans around for food supplements that general population uses daily and in the same time proving they are not able to catch any real fish. I feel sorry for Salazar and his athletes.
Proof that people will support a cheater if they believe that others cheat worse. You can’t even understand the difference between WADA and USADA.
I’m glad the US doping authorities have standards and values that supersede Salazar’s.
I don't support cheaters. It's just I don't see anything to blame Salazar for comparing to rest of the world's stage. WADA has become joke into listing general usage food supplements as banned substances and ensuring national agencies distribute four year bans to everyone.
It's the same story as for climate and nature preservation. While Western world is restricted to use even plastic bags, the entire Asia is dumping billions of metric tons of plastic waste literally right into rivers and oceans daily.
Where's the fair play if parties play by different rules? You really think grounding Salazar will prevent someone in Russia or Africa not to take EPO? Clearly if they see you get same 4 year ban.
What happens now with Rupp? Does he move to Boulder and join Tinman Elite, or continue to get training from Salazar via a friend or John Doe?
SALAZAR was my hero. I'm speachless! :(
qw wrote:
sleazazar wrote:
Proof that people will support a cheater if they believe that others cheat worse. You can’t even understand the difference between WADA and USADA.
I’m glad the US doping authorities have standards and values that supersede Salazar’s.
I don't support cheaters. It's just I don't see anything to blame Salazar for comparing to rest of the world's stage. WADA has become joke into listing general usage food supplements as banned substances and ensuring national agencies distribute four year bans to everyone.
It's the same story as for climate and nature preservation. While Western world is restricted to use even plastic bags, the entire Asia is dumping billions of metric tons of plastic waste literally right into rivers and oceans daily.
Where's the fair play if parties play by different rules? You really think grounding Salazar will prevent someone in Russia or Africa not to take EPO? Clearly if they see you get same 4 year ban.
1) He cheated. It’s plain as day from the reports. Whether you think it is insignificant cheating in the big picture is your opinion, but he flat out broke anti-doping rules and you are supporting him despite this.
2) You still don’t understand the difference between USADA and WADA. Hint: Tygart can’t do anything about Russian or African doping.
Tkrowiendddl wrote:
I've always found the way that Galen was coddled and protected for his entire career to be cringeworthy. The whole stupid story of him being discovered on a soccer field, and of him being 'special' and a diamond in the rough was always embellished. I do feel bad that he was suckered in and influenced by Salazar as a teenager, but he could have departed at any time as an adult.
What also saddens me is Jordan. Jordan could have left NOP. She had four years to do it. She seems like a great person and a hard working athlete, but she sacrificed her integrity to stay with NOP, and also defended Salazar in the process. It will always be a mystery to my as to why she chose to do that.
This. That relationship has always been very strange. I can remember seeing him race at the Trials in 08, and afterwards he and Salazar were out near the stadium at Hayward, and they kept very close. Rupps parents were nowhere to be seen, and I heard a lot of rumors that Salazar effectively assumed a kind of guardianship role over Rupp, and became closer to him than his parents. And all the other NOP athletes who've commented on the record have stated this relationship to be unusually close, to the point of it being secretive. Really, NOP had a hierarchy not unlike Lance Armstrong's team, where the most important athlete was Rupp, and everyone else was ultimately secondary to Rupp.
These two are so close, that I find it impossible to believe that Rupp can be clean at this point, given what is now being revealed about Salazar. Because there was no one closer to Salazar than Rupp. Not even Salazar's own children, who he infamously used as guinea pigs to test various supplements and gels.
I think Rupp's career will be fatally tainted by this.
Sal is far from the worst cheaters. Very far. Jamaica and east Africa are 10x more hopped up.
Can these WCs get any weirder? A drone strike is not out of the question.
Fifteen pages in just about four hours. Has there ever been a hotter thread?
Go whistleblowers wrote:
Thank you to all the whistleblowers who care about cleaning up the sport (e.g. Magness, the Gouchers, etc.). Your efforts are not in vain!
+1
qw wrote:
I don't support cheaters. It's just I don't see anything to blame Salazar for comparing to rest of the world's stage. WADA has become joke into listing general usage food supplements as banned substances and ensuring national agencies distribute four year bans to everyone.
It's the same story as for climate and nature preservation. While Western world is restricted to use even plastic bags, the entire Asia is dumping billions of metric tons of plastic waste literally right into rivers and oceans daily.
Where's the fair play if parties play by different rules? You really think grounding Salazar will prevent someone in Russia or Africa not to take EPO? Clearly if they see you get same 4 year ban.
I agree. I've had this discussion with a former Olympic athlete (who is clean) a year or two back. It's all about the 50 shades of gray at the top. It's very possible you get a guy like Bolt or Phelps who is a genetic freak. But for the rest, it's taking it as close to the limit as possible.
Is it cheating? I don't know.
I mean, I'll take ibuprofen after a hard day to allow me to do harder workouts. I'll consume protein shakes and vitamin waters to help with recovery. I'll take extra iron during higher mileage times to help with red blood cell counts.
All things that could have a positive effect on my performance vs if I didn't take them, but I'm not banned. If there was an EPO pill or something I could freely buy that wasn't "banned", would I take it to help increase my performance? Probably.
I really can't fault people who want to push their bodies to the legal limits. When you set legal limits like the anti-doping agencies have, they essentially create a ceiling. If you're not at 99% of that ceiling, then you're deficient.
Give Sal 2 years. Over all he's good for science despite his so so IQ. Nike makes better shoes as opposed to garbage back in the day. Still Nike runs slave factory manufacturing facilities. So maybe all should go to he'll.