First transgender athlete June Eastwood to compete in women’s DI XC this fall, has pbs of 1:55/3:50/14:38

Jonathan is a guy. Women's sport is for women. I don't care if he runs 19:xx... he is likely still bumping an actual female off of the travel team, or the training team, or the list of walk on candidates.

The University of Montana and it's administration is a joke.

MtnGoat wrote:

Jonathan is a guy. Women's sport is for women. I don't care if he runs 19:xx... he is likely still bumping an actual female off of the travel team, or the training team, or the list of walk on candidates.

The University of Montana and it's administration is a joke.

Jonathan is a man, June on T+E is a woman. Any female D1 team worth its salt is not going to be dealing with 19:xx slowpokes even as walkons. The University of Montana and it's administration is absolutely a joke because they're not being upfront and honest about this situation which leads everyone to speculate instead of knowing the facts, such as June's T+E levels.

Correct. Even if he slows down a lot (which still has to been seen, CeCe didn't), he still caused one girl to be cut from the team in order to make room for him.

It's crazy how these women exclusionists are taking away all the freedoms women were able to enjoy.

MtnGoat wrote:

Jonathan is a guy. Women's sport is for women. I don't care if he runs 19:xx... he is likely still bumping an actual female off of the travel team, or the training team, or the list of walk on candidates.

The University of Montana and it's administration is a joke.

Whether people like it or not, if a transgender is accepted as being female it's difficult to include the caveat that she can't compete in sports as a woman as it a tough argument to win in court and it's not a liberal thing. The guys in wigs counter argument is compelling so the compromise is hormone treatment and it has been accepted by the IAAF, NCAA, USATF and other countries besides the U.S. All the rants on this thread are just shouting at the wind.

June is an eligible athlete and the UM cannot prevent her from competing.

If June runs 3:50 next Spring, it will be significant ammo for people, including me, that are opposed to the hormone treatment compromise.

Mike Rozzi wrote:

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

Jonathan is a man, June on T+E is a woman. Any female D1 team worth its salt is not going to be dealing with 19:xx slowpokes even as walkons. The University of Montana and it's administration is absolutely a joke because they're not being upfront and honest about this situation which leads everyone to speculate instead of knowing the facts, such as June's T+E levels.

Let's do a DNA test, a chromosome test or a bone scan and see what the results say. Or just do an old school visual verification and see his dick and balls.

Jonathan is a man and will always stay a man.

It's probably hard to understand in your marxist fantasy world, but sex is not a social construct. It's difficult to grasp for a liberal betacuck, but facts over feelings!

Your wife and kids must love getting mansplained by you. Your way or the highway, Man! Don’t let them have any opinions other than yours? It would be a lot easier to agree with you on some of these points if your posts didn’t scream like a scorned Frat boy at a delta-delta-delta mixer.

Anyway. You sound like an angel. My cat’s about to have a litter of kittens. I’d send you one for comfort but you sound like you would eat it.

Enjoy your day! .

Mike Rozzi, interesting how you'll respond gleefully to your supporters but will never properly respond or debate with anyone who disagrees with you, including the last post on p14. you and your people have created this PC liberal mess that we're in right now by getting fake-offended on behalf of people who actually take no issue with June competing.

if you actually wanted to have an honest conversation, the focus would be on reforming the corrupt NCAA to actually institute T+E limits and verification, which June would pass. but because you pray every day for the destruction of women's sports while getting cucked by your wife who lies to feed your feminine ego as you showed earlier, you don't actually want the women's NCAA to succeed. you want to see them continue with their failed transgender handbook policies ad nauseam because you would rather see our sport suffer than fix its problems.

Truth hurts, doesn't it.

recreational jogger53 wrote:

Truth hurts, doesn't it.

oh, you mean the truth that transgender women are legally recognized as women under US law in all 50 states, including on official documents like passports and birth certificates. maybe it hurts for you, but the rest of us are living our lives just fine without being hindered by fake PC outrage culture.

You are wrong in claiming that the only essential difference between men and women distance runners is testosterone.

A study of highly-ranked distance runners' physiology showed that the men in the survey were, on average, 10cm taller than the women, 15kg heavier and with 7% less body fat. The men were bigger, heavier and more muscular than the women runners. All of that contributes to the marked difference in performance between men and women in distance running. The testosterone debate greatly over-simplifies the issues involved.

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

recreational jogger53 wrote:

Truth hurts, doesn't it.

oh, you mean the truth that transgender women are legally recognized as women under US law in all 50 states, including on official documents like passports and birth certificates. maybe it hurts for you, but the rest of us are living our lives just fine without being hindered by fake PC outrage culture.

There you go again making stupid assumptions..

Armstronglivs wrote:

You are wrong in claiming that the only essential difference between men and women distance runners is testosterone.

A study of highly-ranked distance runners' physiology showed that the men in the survey were, on average, 10cm taller than the women, 15kg heavier and with 7% less body fat. The men were bigger, heavier and more muscular than the women runners. All of that contributes to the marked difference in performance between men and women in distance running. The testosterone debate greatly over-simplifies the issues involved.

no, i disagree with your characterization based on that data (and i'm not sure which study specifically you're referring to, because you didn't link it or give the authors' names).

you mention correlations that are actually not causally linked to performance in distance running, but are simply average figures about the difference between men and women in general. in fact, the height difference of 10cm is less than the US national gendered average height difference of 13.8cm, which only goes further to prove that height makes someone slower in distance running if not for the difference in testosterone between men and women.

the 15kg weight and 7% body fat percent are also typical of the difference between men and women but more importantly aren't causally linked to fast running -- in fact, common sense says that being heavier as a man is a disadvantage in aerobic endurance sports. but either way note that both of these measures are affected by testosterone, which is the key ingredient here that's missing. the left's recent crusade against T in the semenya case has ironically set us back years for trans inclusion, all in the name of faux political correctness and grasping at straws. we have to take the facts here and they show that testosterone is the relevant factor in distance running, and it can be regulated to female levels as June is doing.

The comparison is amongst distance runners and not the general population. Clearly, being taller and heavier on average than female runners is not a disadvantage for male runners. Elite performances reflect the same. Your "common sense" has misled you.

This is how asinine our local politicians have become; to allow males to become "legally" female without thinking through the implications and fallout of this consequence.

Imagine if you can change your ethnicity from one to another. Suppose someone of Asian background wants to become European. All this person needs to do is change their physical appearance, i.e. blue eyes, eyelids, nose, face and submit a form to the local government and now you are legally European.

Now think about that. That is the equivalent of a male transgender being a "legal" female.

We then might as well have laws that allow you to change your ethnicity as well!

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

you do realize that having larger, heavier organs and denser bones makes you slower in distance running, right? men are faster than women for one reason, and it's not the "bone density" total bull -- it's *testosterone*.

Spectacular Dijon, Dijon! You made me a believer!

I just discovered how to create the Ultimate type of distance runner.. Take an elite level female such as Jessica Hull and or Dani Jones. Boost up their testosterone and watch them take down the Morgan McDonald's of the world.

After all, you get the benefits of testosterone, without the larger heavier organs and denser bones of natural males. Once the females catch on, this could result in the end of competitive male distance running as we know it.

I can't wait for a competitive collegiate female distance runner to transition to male.

Get the popcorn ready.

Actually I think you're dead wrong. Entertaining theory though.

recreational jogger53 wrote:

This is how asinine our local politicians have become; to allow males to become "legally" female without thinking through the implications and fallout of this consequence.

Imagine if you can change your ethnicity from one to another. Suppose someone of Asian background wants to become European. All this person needs to do is change their physical appearance, i.e. blue eyes, eyelids, nose, face and submit a form to the local government and now you are legally European.

Now think about that. That is the equivalent of a male transgender being a "legal" female.

We then might as well have laws that allow you to change your ethnicity as well!

Please. No one is changing their ethnicity, and the comparison is spurious. At least try to formulate a decent argument.

We now have a story up on June and the main details covering her situation ahead of her first race on Saturday.

Joanna Harper doesn't think she'll be that fast.

"I think that most people will be surprised at how much slower she will run," Harper told us.

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/08/5-facts-about-june-eastwood-who-will-become-the-first-transgender-woman-to-run-an-ncaa-division-i-cross-country-race-saturday/

i understood that the study was among distance runners. my point was that because these differences you mentioned are basically just the average distances between men and women in general, of course they would be replicated across any arbitrarily selected group. if the differences were causally linked to fast running, we would expect them to trend in one direction or another.

besides, if being tall is so advantageous to distance running as you claim, then why is Bekele short as a stump while runners like Andrew Wheating are so few and far between, and whenever they succeed the coverage is usually focused on their height as an anomaly from other runners that must be overcome rather than a positive trait? anyone who has followed the sport for years knows very plainly that height is not an advantage in distance running, and i would be happy to drill down to the specifics on any part of that.

you jest, but what you're saying is basically true. it's not unrealistic to think that unfettered doping over a period of years can cause a performance boost of about 10% in elite women if it were not banned by WADA. as it concerns distance running specifically, the relevant differences between men and women are primarily hormonal, not musculoskeletal.

Jon, thank you for the article. i think it was fairly written. i understand the logs have since been made private so it may be difficult to include in a public article, but i also think it's important for people to know that her recent workout logs have indicated low-17-minute 5K shape at best, which at the very least rules out her going and setting an NCAA record on her first meet back or otherwise.

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

recreational jogger53 wrote:

Truth hurts, doesn't it.

oh, you mean the truth that transgender women are legally recognized as women under US law in all 50 states, including on official documents like passports and birth certificates. maybe it hurts for you, but the rest of us are living our lives just fine without being hindered by fake PC outrage culture.

You have a picture of Saul Alinsky over your bed, don't you?

Very interesting article.

However, upon close reading, it noticed the following.

The NCAA transgender handbook states that an MTF transgender athlete must undergo “one calendar year of testosterone suppression treatment” in order to compete in the women’s category.

A calendar year is the one-year period between January 1 and December 31, based on the Gregorian calendar.

That calendar year can't be 2018, because he was still competing in May 2018 as a man. It can't be 2019 either, because it isn't December 31 yet.

Conclusion: Jonathan hasn't undergone one calendar year of testosterone suppression, so he isn't in compliance but is actually cheating.