Who here has done Maffetone Method (180BPM HR minus your age) for base?

I’ve been running since high school, got back into serious training in 2010. I was training very hard with loads of anaerobic work, but was on tip of always getting hurt. After that, had bursitis for three years and just started running again. I wanted to take a new approach, starting reading up on you, Mark Allen, fat-burning, etc. My first MAF test was 8:39. Been doing nothing but MAF on swim, bike and run, and my MAF Test three months later was down to 7:09!

MAF the knife wrote:

I’ve been running since high school, got back into serious training in 2010. I was training very hard with loads of anaerobic work, but was on tip of always getting hurt. After that, had bursitis for three years and just started running again. I wanted to take a new approach, starting reading up on you, Mark Allen, fat-burning, etc. My first MAF test was 8:39. Been doing nothing but MAF on swim, bike and run, and my MAF Test three months later was down to 7:09!

Amazing!

This Maffetone and his so called "Method" is money making bullshit, it's up there with this 'Heavy Hands' bullshit which made Leonard Schwartz a fortune:

https://www.amazon.com/Leonard-Schwartz/e/B001IXOEHS/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_book_1

And just like all the other fad bullshit that goes around and comes around it there to make dollars for someone. Can't blame the promoters for cashing in on the gullible I suppose, it's what keeps the finances circulating and people employed.

Look at that:

https://philmaffetone.com/the-science-of-success/

The chiropractor Phil Maffetone has done more for the planet than anyone in modern history.

https://philmaffetone.com/about/

Phil also has at least 4 albums he would like you to purchase.

http://www.maffetonemusic.com/

(Phil says that he is like Bob Dylan.)

Do you think Phil should also get a Nobel prize?

The answer is:

No.

Phil Maffetone must be STOPPED.

BBen,

Great post, a really interesting read. I have been running for around 8 years and for the last 2 years I have been running consistently around 20-25mpw, my times are:

5k - 19:54

10k - 43:03 (evening race after a full day at work)

half mara - 1:34:10

mara 3:42:03

My fav race distance is the half mara, I do 4-5 of these per year.

I am 33 years old so MAF = 147.

I have recently been introduced to the Maffetone Method and I am really interested in it, partly because my heart rate is really high for someone my age running my times, doing the 10k last week my max HR was 202 at the end of the race and my average was 186. I feel that this is the limiting factor in going faster, my legs always feel ok during a race but my breathing and heart rate get so fast!

I am thinking of trying the MAF method for the next few months, sticking to it for all my running to bring my HR down. It seems like quite an investment of time and something that takes a while to yield results but I am hoping to be patient and giving it enough time to work. I eat fairly healthily (although I do like my carbs!) and I haven't got anything else stressful in my life at the moment. Would you recommend doing all running at the MAF HR? And at what point would you start doing faster runs? I want to give it a go but it goes against my instinct that by training slower I will be able to race faster! At the moment my average pace at HR147 over 5 miles is 9:14/mile which feels really slow, from reading PM posts it looks like a reasonable increase in speed to hope for is around 10sec/mile/month? Does that sound possible? My main concern is that I don't do enough mileage for it to be effective and I will end up just doing loads of slow running with little or no improvement! I enjoy my running but I can't see me increasing mileage much, maybe up to 30mpw as a peak for training towards a race but probably no more than that. I've always felt that slow running makes sense if you go running every day as you can't smash it day after day but as I run only 3 times a week it seems odd to not push hard on at least 1 of those runs?

Chris

As people who are the same age can have widely varying max HR's how can it be accurate?

It's basically the same as zone 2 training based on age, or 220-age x 0.77 or so. It's a conservative boilerplate, gets more inaccurate with older fit people IMO. 220-age puts me at 160, yet my tempo yesterday was at 172, max is low-190s age 60. Maybe I'm an outlier, but at least I won't overtrain using these numbers. I mainly use it for long runs and recovery runs while I build mileage.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

As people who are the same age can have widely varying max HR's how can it be accurate?

Training "super expertise" is overrated. Especially when all dissenting opinions have to be wrong. Being good at running or swimming or triathlon is mostly about genetics and early childhood development. That goes from elites to hobby joggers.

Mark Allen, the triathlete mentioned in this thread, if he ran anywhere near 220 is a damn good marathoner for his size and lack of dedication to the marathon. MAF didn't to that. He was a better triathlete because his weight didn't hurt him swimming and not too much on the bike.

MAF did not make him NOT be that great triathlete either. Let hit sink in.

The fact is, on any given day running a tempo run, or doing a 3 hour run walk in hills at 70% heart rate average is going to add to your fitness. Mixing them year round or having extreme periods of more of one than the other isn't going to make much of a difference to your natural ability, as long as you do honest work that doesn't hurt you.

Everyone who has a open mind, no agenda, should know this by now.

Training "super expertise" is not overrated. If it comes to expertise that in practice show the good race results. I define " super expertise" in running as a person/or persons that can make any given runner to reach his/her optimal capacity whatever talent or genetics.

COACH J.S

Maybe, but how many people are that coach, or if not a coach , exhibit the likelihood that they could be that coach?

Chris- no one has replied to your query, and having used MAF for 10 months I can give you mi dos centavos. First of all, keep in mind that MAF pace is super-conservative, and the premise is to prioritize health over performance. It is a "slow boat" method, which will be kind to your joints and immune system, but hard on your ego and "race next month!" ambitions. If you are currently healthy and running without pain, I would suggest that you begin to increase your mileage with MAF-pace running, and keep faster running on the back burner except for strides a few times a week and maybe once a week tempo/fartlek. This is also the perfect opportunity to clean up your diet with LCHF; to be honest that for me was even more powerful than MAF in restoring my health. Be patient and dovetail MAF with Lydiard and/or 80/20 (more like 90/10 as you increase mileage) for optimal performance. A long career as a runner is a good career. 45 years here and enjoying it more than ever..

ukathleticscoach wrote:

As people who are the same age can have widely varying max HR's how can it be accurate?

Because 180-age is essentially capturing 90% of people into the "easy" training zone by deault. It is not meant as an exact HR % for some kind of miraculous training effect like all the know it alls try to do.

It just seems boring as hell.

And training by HR is for idiots anyway.

Grumpy old man wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

As people who are the same age can have widely varying max HR's how can it be accurate?

Because 180-age is essentially capturing 90% of people into the "easy" training zone by deault. It is not meant as an exact HR % for some kind of miraculous training effect like all the know it alls try to do.

It just seems boring as hell.

And training by HR is for idiots anyway.

Says the grumpy old man who never realized his potential.

The commenter above who says MAF is just a rebranding of the traditional zone 2 is correct. Training this way is beneficial.

Except Maffetone has realized the majority of people who are likely to use his methods are fatties, so he's very cunningly made the HFLC diet as an essential part of zone 2 training. It's complete BS, but the Maffetone cultists swear by the diet more than the training.

Good god the MAF-haters were late getting up today. Those bedpans must be overflowing!

MAFDonald wrote:

Grumpy old man wrote:

Because 180-age is essentially capturing 90% of people into the "easy" training zone by deault. It is not meant as an exact HR % for some kind of miraculous training effect like all the know it alls try to do.

It just seems boring as hell.

And training by HR is for idiots anyway.

Says the grumpy old man who never realized his potential.

The commenter above who says MAF is just a rebranding of the traditional zone 2 is correct. Training this way is beneficial.

Except Maffetone has realized the majority of people who are likely to use his methods are fatties, so he's very cunningly made the HFLC diet as an essential part of zone 2 training. It's complete BS, but the Maffetone cultists swear by the diet more than the training.

Except you failed to quote a single MAF hater. Bravo

MAFDonald wrote:

Says the grumpy old man who never realized his potential.

Wow you were able to figure all that out about me from a single post. Dang it. That is impressive.

I will just hang my head in shame now, never having realized my potential.

Grumpy old man goes home DEVASTATED!

Grumpy old man wrote:

And training by HR is for idiots anyway.

No kidding...and I'm just glad I've got a HR while I'm running at my age. Lol.

These young cats get into this HR rate stuff because it's a cool thing for them to do. Wait till they get to my age where HR training makes about as much sense as farting in church.

Oh...but wait, research shows about 2/3 of these young bucks won't even be running when they reach their 70s!

Dufustherealone wrote:

COACH J.S � � � wrote:

Training "super expertise" is not overrated. If it comes to expertise that in practice show the good race results. I define " super expertise" in running as a person/or persons that can make any given runner to reach his/her optimal capacity whatever talent or genetics.

COACH J.S

Maybe, but how many people are that coach, or if not a coach , exhibit the likelihood that they could be that coach?

They have of course to study the technic, read the books or pay for these experts to coach/teach them.

COACH J.S