Torrence Speaks Out Against Lagat After 5k Final

Huh? There are 3 1:46:xx in that list when he was still in college.

no that's not what you wrote. nice try.

Place is listed after location. He didn't win any of them so they weren't solo efforts in the wind like they previous poster made up.

Wasn't tighter the shifter like 44 when he won double Olympic gold in 1980?

das;fkhjasdkfhdsa wrote:

on drugs or not, genetically he is a freak of nature

^This.

While I'm certainly skeptical of most athletic performances, but can still enjoy it for what it is, I find myself on the fence regarding Lagat and PED use.

I do think he is a genetic freak, as an earlier poster wrote. Having watched him race for years, I would expect him to be an all-time great and having a 3 second better PR than Willis, who everyone assumes is clean, does not seem unreasonable. Legate's talent is obvious to anyone without tainted glasses.

Regardless, after seeing Lagat kick in his semi round, I'm dumbfounded that his competitors didn't realize a kicker's race would result in Lagat taking one of the top 3 spots.

RioLookingbad for US AGAIN wrote:

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

Except those guys aren't doing it at the end of a freaking 5K.

+1 Exactly

Plus of course I was suspicious of Lagat from a long time back but what I'm saying is the fact that he's running this fast, this old, WE'VE NEVER SEEN THIS before in TNF. To me that's even more damning that the 3:26 back in the day. What other 42 year olds have done what Lagat is doing? ZERO.

We also never seen an athlete like Lagat continue running into his 40s with what appears to be consistent training. Who else is a comparable story? Name one runner in history who was as good as he was in his prime (dude ran 3:34 or under 14 years in a row) and then had the same consistency and training into his 40s? Also his form is a work of art.

Also he ran 3:34 or better 14 years in a row. That's basically the antithesis of a doping story. He's the GOAT.

rojo wrote:

I think this is a lie. I'm going to delete this post in 9:40 pm ET if you dont' email me proof that this occurred.

robertjohnson@letsrun.com

Someone please let me know if this is a troll.

JUST DELETE IT ROJO.....THIS THREAD HAS NOT PURPOSE OR POINT.

This whole discussion is absurd. Every world class athlete is suspect and there are evidentiary requirements to determine rules violators. If the evidence isn't established then all we can do is enjoy the event. Some are guilty who don't win (and are maybe second-tier trying to make the top) and some win who aren't guilty. Clairvoyance isn't valid.

Getting mad??? Rational thought??? Coming from the guy who's asking the site owners to check IP addresses...you surely don't sound like you and the word rational would ever be used in the same sentence. You're mad because you realize that I'm not from Nike and you, on your own, made yourself look very stupid by assuming that. Bernard is 100% innocent and is still quite capable of closing with a 52.8, you just can't handle the truth.

A couple of things:

1. If done correctly, 99.9% of the time, a positive B will confirm a positive A. If Lagat's A was truly positive, the B should have confirmed it. Also, in addition to receiving the same exact test the A receives, the B receives an additional independent more exhaustive test.

2. If you have information that's beneficial to the federation and/or the running community, why wait to say after the fact. "If you know something, say something,"

3. As a member of the Peruvian track & field, obviously I am not comfortable with David and athletes from another countries criticizing our athletes. I don't know if Lagat is clean or dirty, but he is highly respected and unless David can provide same proof, he has shot himself in foot big time.

No, it's not and if it is, you're part of it for posting. That's why they have drug testing, to rule out the cheaters, with evidence. Some don't win and are guilty? Wow, quite thought provoking Captain Obvious. You should write for a running magazine.

Thank Shorter wrote:

This whole discussion is absurd. Every world class athlete is suspect and there are evidentiary requirements to determine rules violators. If the evidence isn't established then all we can do is enjoy the event. Some are guilty who don't win (and are maybe second-tier trying to make the top) and some win who aren't guilty. Clairvoyance isn't valid.

Bingo rekrunner!!!……..(WTF???????!!!!!!!)

I thought the A sample was refrigerated and handled OK but I can't remember now.

The key point is that BOTH the A sample and B sample showed evidence of enzymatic activity and glycoprotein modification. They did not match the pattern for a positive test match on the gel electrophoresis.

The controls were recombinant human erythropoietin and Aranesp (darbepoetin alfa), also developed by Amgen, and called Nesp in the article, which means 'novel erythropoiesis stimulating protein'. It is a synthetic EPO which differs from endogenous EPO by containing two more N-linked oligosaccharide chains with the 165-amino acid protein.

It would also of been more difficult in this case for the evil Dr. Martial 'Plan B' Saugy to get the other 4 experts to all conspire with him in his evil activities.

In conclusion: There was never a positive A or B sample for Bernard Lagat in 2003. The false positive A sample result should also not have been public. No doping test results should be made public until confirmed by a positive B test.

There is no basis to use the 2003 test as evidence for doping by Bernard Lagat.

There are several possible scenarios. I don't think anyone can prove any of the scenarios. It is all speculation by everyone. David Torrence does not know what he is talking about in reference to the 2003 test. His evidence consists of "I have heard multiple rumors" (He probably heard them here at this forum.)

Scenarios:

1) Lagat has always been doping since around 1998 to 1999.

2) Lagat was doping back then... and then stopped at some point and is not doping now. He has also slowed down with age. He is not setting new PRs.

3) Lagat has never doped and has always been clean.

4) ?

Any of the scenarios is possible.

I have seen many world class runners in person doing workouts on the track or that go by me on the trails here. I have never seen Kenenisa Bekele run in person. If he ever comes to Flagstaff…I will be there to watch him run in person.

I have seen Bernard Lagat close races with a 25 second 200m for 17 years. I have seen Bernard Lagat finish workouts with 25 second 200m repeats.

Bernard Lagat practices finishing with a 25 second last 200m.

I have even looked out my window at home and seen Bernard Lagat run by my house. I have also run (slowly) with Bernard. I have seen his son at some of his workouts. Nobody has ever run by my house at a faster pace than Bernard Lagat. He is absolutely incredible. (I may also be biased.)

When I watched him run he seemed more like a beautiful wild animal than a human running. He has the best running form I have ever seen in person in my entire life.

Bernard Lagat is the greatest runner I have ever seen in person in my entire life.

Torrence can't close that fast, so let's accuse someone who has better times at the same age than he did and try to make a name for himself by making such slanderous outlandish statements as if Mr. Torrence himself has the answer. If I were Peru, I would not allow him to run, period. Same on him for making such a statement about such an amazingly talented and hard working athlete like Lagat. Who the hell is Torrence to make such claims? I'd sue him without hesitation.

Bow WOw cOW wrote:

No, it's not and if it is, you're part of it for posting. That's why they have drug testing, to rule out the cheaters, with evidence. Some don't win and are guilty? Wow, quite thought provoking Captain Obvious. You should write for a running magazine.

Thank Shorter wrote:

This whole discussion is absurd. Every world class athlete is suspect and there are evidentiary requirements to determine rules violators. If the evidence isn't established then all we can do is enjoy the event. Some are guilty who don't win (and are maybe second-tier trying to make the top) and some win who aren't guilty. Clairvoyance isn't valid.

Wow, sounds like Torrence just couldn't keep himself contained. Not sure how credible Torrence is but he has been around the block and knows a thing or two.

I would like to see Lagat respond and take the lie detector as Paula suggests. For all the heat Torrence is getting here, he will be a fellow Olympian with Lagat, and a response is warrented.

At this point without a clean lie detector I am inclined to believe Torrence.

I feel like all of the people on here who think Lagat is doping are acting like he's miraculously in the best shape of his life...not at all. He's not gonna go sub 13 ever again, and his 1500 is probably no better than 3:36 or so right now. He ran like 9 seconds off his 3k PR indoors and didn't even make the world indoor team (was 3 seconds off). He's in great shape for 5k but don't act like he's in 2009-2011 shape. Honestly, if this were a 13:0x race I don't think he would have outkicked guys like Ben True and Hassan Mead who have that 10k strength...he probably would have still beaten Galen cause he's toast from marathon training and is lacking gears he used to have. This was Lagat's ideal kind of race. People running it should have figured that out before running the first 1000 slower than Ayana's PR pace. Molly Huddle could have led the first 1000 and wouldn't have even been straining. This was basically a 4k tempo run followed by a 1000m race.

Carlos Lopes?

For all the tards that think Lagat ran 52 off of a "sit-and-kick" pace, check the splits: he ran 10:29 for the last 4k (13:06 pace). They only jogged for 1k...

nice try, do you feel smart? that 1k makes a HUGE difference at their level of racing. i realize that it's going to take a bit for it to sink in, but i have faith that eventually it will. if not, try google. it was 52.8, not 52 and yes, there's a difference turtleneck.

not a tard. wrote:

For all the tards that think Lagat ran 52 off of a "sit-and-kick" pace, check the splits: he ran 10:29 for the last 4k (13:06 pace). They only jogged for 1k...

The joke is on us wrote:

I would like to see Lagat respond and take the lie detector as Paula suggests.

At this point without a clean lie detector I am inclined to believe Torrence.

Paula is a pioneer in this new field of MRI lie detection

i feel that she should be the first to take the test