Race wants prize money back

Pro Se wrote:

Legally, if a contract (terms and conditions) is confusing it benefits the non-writer of the contract. Thus if there is any confusion, it will benefit the runner not the director. The fact that the people working for the race are confused enough to send the wrong amount is prima facie evidence that the contract was unclear. Thus the court should find in the runner's favor. Further had the runner only received half of the printed amount, he would have a strong case to sue the RD for the full amount that was listed on the website.

Good post.

OP. Keep the money without guilt.

Can we all bandit this race en masse next year? Make bib #s with the number 1800/2 as a form of protest.

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

once an RD wrote:

Some of you clearly don't understand the time commitment it takes to put on even small races. Your ignorance is even more evident on running a non-profit.

Oh but I do

Doubtful.

once an RD wrote:

Doubtful.

Which bits don't I know about, walking the course fretting about every potential hole in the tarmac being an excuse for the council to shut the path for months, answering queries about why I want to infringe people's human rights by not allowing headphones, non-stop emails asking about cutoff times for slow runners, people who have entered but want a refund because their Aunt Maud is visiting that day, trying to read illegible hand writing on paper pre-entries, runners who have swapped their entry over to their friend a day before the race, people who turn up on the day claiming to have pre entered who aren't on any list, people turning up on the day impersonating their friend whose name they get wrong ending up with another runner's number . . . I could carry on for at least another couple of thousand words

The RD has to pay the city cops overtime pay or else he'll be beaten and shot like a black man.

I really wish the OP had linked the prize page and asked "how much will the man winning the 10km race win?".

Knowing what was going on surely impacted how I read and analyzed the prize structure.

I believe I would picked up that the prizes totaled more that the stated overall amount and questioned if the prize structure was correct. I think I would ask "that's 15G for both the mens and the womens division ,right ?".

They way the Masters prize box was written my first thought was that it was alerting me to the fact that that breakdown was done in a manner different that the prize divisions above it.

But I'm sure I'd spend zero time looking at the Parentchild, Team and Costume prizes the first time through the page.

Only when the thought that there was something wrong with the total prize amount would I see that getting out my Carmen Miranda in Drag costume would earn me more money than my speed would.

Er... wrote:

Or you could, you know, be a nice human being, take the high road, acknowledge they made a mistake and return the money.

The people on this board salivating to profit an someone else's expense are extraordinary. And I mean on the entire board, not just this thread. This really is a nasty, nasty site sometimes.

Then maybe the RD should have been a nice human being in the first place. Instead of threatening legal action he could have said "we made a mistake, we know you are under no obligation to return the money, but it would really help us out".

I know I would be a lot more likely to try and cooperate in that situation than having something threaten me.

gtyurytr wrote:

Then maybe the RD should have been a nice human being in the first place. Instead of threatening legal action he could have said "we made a mistake, we know you are under no obligation to return the money, but it would really help us out".

I know I would be a lot more likely to try and cooperate in that situation than having something threaten me.

+100

I came across this search after someone had alerted me that one of men's winners in the Surfing Madonna 2015 Run was spreading inconsistent and false accusation.

First of all I am the race director and don't care what the elite community thinks of me after my mistake. I'm really sickened by some of the comments on this blog. I can't believe that greedy, money hungry selfish people like this really exist. You folks are like a pack of wolves, it's actually disturbing.

Let me break this down for all of you and frankly I don't care what my reputation will be on this blog as the elites make up about 30 people out of the 3,867 that registered so I don't care if the elites hate us after this. It's about doing what is right and standing up for what is right regardless of what a bunch of greedy selfish people say.

For those of you who don't know our organization, we've donated over $140,000 to special needs youth, floating beach wheel chairs projects, scholarships, etc. Please read:

http://surfingmadonna.org/where-the-money-goes/

.

It was my fault for writing out $24,500 in prize money instead of $15,000 in prize money. The masters all received what they deserved $1,500. The largest teams all received what they deserved $2,000. The Costume contest winners received what they deserved $2,000. The elites however received $24,500 and this I we intend to recover as it's being taken away from special needs kids, marine mammal projects, disability programs, etc. Again read the link above to SEE WHERE OUR MONEY GOES.

Surfing Madonna Oceans Project Donations

$6,250 – Marine life safety equipment for injured and stranded marine mammals for Encinitas.

$23,000 – Marine biology and oceanography scholarships.

$15,000 – YMCA’s special needs aquatic program.

$9,966 – Mobi-mats for the Encinitas lifeguards (allows for advanced access to the ocean)

$1,500 – Lunches for Special Olympics at Encinitas’ new park.

$700 – Green Week at San Dieguito High School Academy.

$13,700 – Summer surf camp for special needs children & Wounded Warriors.

$400 – Campus wide recycling program at San Dieguito High School Academy

$25,000- Parks and Recreation Ocean/Beach Projects (ex. Beach Wheelchairs)

$400 – Rhoades School ocean conservation programs

$3,000 – Local Salvation Army for their homeless and disadvantaged youth projects.

$400 – Leukemia and Lymphoma Society benefiting local children.

$2,000 – Grants to community members for Ocean Conservation Projects

$500 – H2O Trash Patrol’s SUP Waterway Clean up Program

$500 – Healthy Day Partner’s upcoming Farm Lab for elementary school students

$10,000 – City of Encinitas & State Park’s free habitat & ocean conservation program for youth at local beaches.

$500 – Boys to Men nonprofit – 100 Wave Challenge in San Diego

$250 – Encinitas Arts Commission

No I'm not a professional Race Director. I started this race 3 years ago with the intent to give back to the community and people that need help. I've done just as I intended to do and we've made a huge difference in a lot of peoples lives. We're doing the best we can with this event and yes it's become a success, but we (I) am no expert and unfortunately don't have a lot of help and my background is definitely not in race directing. So what I thought was clear when I posted the prize money, was definitely not to some. Fortunately others understand.

OBVIOUSLY WE WOULDN'T ADVERTISE TO GIVE OUT $15,000 IN PRIZE MONEY AND THEN GIVE OUT $24,500. What sense would that make. People do make mistakes, I'm sure some of you have accidently been overpaid at work and have had to return the money. I would do it as soon as I saw my employers mistake, it sounds like some of you probably wouldn't do that. But by law, if you are over paid for work, prize money, etc you must return the money. The legal term for this is "Unjust Enrichment".

Now the questions remains will a judge see our side of things. Honestly, I don't know. But from what our lawyer says, we have a good chance given what the total prize money was listed as and when you do the math it's obvious that I wrote out twice the amount earned. Regardless, yes, we will fight this and I am not bluffing. Who in their right mind would just walk away from $9,000 that is allocated for special needs youth projects.

Luckily, we have received quite a bit of our prize money back from participants who understand the mistake that was made. I am awarding them with only having to pay back 75% and am giving them several free entries over the next few years. I've also set up payment plans for those who can't afford to pay back the overpaid amount.

Yes, I've decided to get our lawyers involved. I intend to fight this all the way through and unfortunately it will end up in court for some. I've been nice, it's obvious that we are a generous organization and when a few bad apples who can't find moral decency decide they are not going to give back what was overpaid, like spoiled children crying over ice cream, yes I will go all the way with this.

I had one elite runner tell me over the phone that its the elite athletes that make our race so prestigious. I almost vomited in my mouth when I heard that. They proceeded to tell me that this race wouldn't be what it is without the elite runners. Again I almost vomited. Who says things like that. I'll tel you who....The kind of people that aren't doing what is right in this situation.

Honestly who cares if we have elite athletes at our event. They make up about 25 of the almost 4,000 runners, that's less than a tenth of a percent. They want hotel accommodations, free entries, sometimes even asking for airfare, it's disgusting. To make matters worse we give them a ton of prize money that could be going to the majority of our demographic instead.

I think next year we should put the prize money towards our Masters Division. Too much drama and headache with the elites. So, yes, I don't care what the people on this blog think about me or our organization. We let our organization and what it's done and will continue to do speak for itself. I don't hide behind a screen name and throw out insulting remarks about others.

We were nice to those who didn't want to pay us what was overpaid. We tried to work out a deal with them. And now we're going to fight for what is right. Sorry about the long reply.....

Rdsurfingmadonna wrote:

I'm really sickened by some of the comments on this blog.

This isn't a blog. It is a message board.

You cannot be the actual race director. No one is that stupid. I call Troll.

I came across this search after someone had alerted me that one of men's winners in the Surfing Madonna 2015 Run was spreading inconsistent and false accusation.

First of all I am the race director and don't care what the elite communitythinks of me after my mistake. I'm really sickened by some of the comments on this blog. I can't believe that greedy, money hungry selfish people like this really exist. You folks are like a pack of wolves, it's actually disturbing.

Let me break this down for all of you and frankly I don't care what my reputation will be on this blog as the elites make up about 30 people out of the 3,867 that registered so I don't care if the elites hate us after this. It's about doing what is right and standing up for what is right regardless of what a bunch of greedy selfish people say.

For those of you who don't know our organization, we've donated over $140,000 to special needs youth, floating beach wheel chairs projects, scholarships, etc. Please read:

http://surfingmadonna.org/where-the-money-goes/

.

It was my fault for writing out $24,500 in prize money instead of $15,000 in prize money. The masters all received what they deserved $1,500. The largest teams all received what they deserved $2,000. The Costume contest winners received what they deserved $2,000. The elites however received $24,500 and this I we intend to recover as it's being taken away from special needs kids, marine mammal projects, disability programs, etc. Again read the link above to SEE WHERE OUR MONEY GOES.

Surfing Madonna Oceans Project Donations

$6,250 – Marine life safety equipment for injured and stranded marine mammals for Encinitas.

$23,000 – Marine biology and oceanography scholarships.

$15,000 – YMCA’s special needs aquatic program.

$9,966 – Mobi-mats for the Encinitas lifeguards (allows for advanced access to the ocean)

$1,500 – Lunchesfor Special Olympics at Encinitas’ new park.

$700 – Green Week at San Dieguito High SchoolAcademy.

$13,700 – Summer surf camp for special needs children & Wounded Warriors.

$400 – Campus wide recycling program at San Dieguito High School Academy

$25,000- Parks and Recreation Ocean/Beach Projects (ex. Beach Wheelchairs)

$400 – Rhoades School ocean conservation programs

$3,000 – Local Salvation Army for their homeless and disadvantaged youth projects.

$400 – Leukemia and Lymphoma Society benefiting local children.

$2,000 – Grants to community members for Ocean Conservation Projects

$500 – H2O Trash Patrol’s SUP Waterway Clean up Program

$500 – Healthy Day Partner’s upcoming Farm Lab for elementary school students

$10,000 – City of Encinitas & State Park’s free habitat & ocean conservation program for youth at local beaches.

$500 – Boys to Men nonprofit – 100 Wave Challenge in San Diego

$250 – Encinitas Arts Commission

No I'm not a professional Race Director. I started this race 3 years ago with the intent to give back to the community and people that need help. I've done just as I intended to do and we've made a huge difference in a lot of peoples lives. We're doing the best we can with this event and yes it's become a success, but we (I) am no expert and unfortunately don't have a lot of help and my background is definitely not in race directing. So what I thought was clear when I posted the prize money, was definitely not to some. Fortunately others understand.

OBVIOUSLY WE WOULDN'T ADVERTISE TO GIVE OUT $15,000 IN PRIZE MONEY AND THEN GIVE OUT $24,500. What sense would that make. People do make mistakes, I'm sure some of you have accidently been overpaid at work and have had to return the money. I would do it as soon as I saw my employers mistake, it sounds like some of you probably wouldn't do that. But by law, if you are over paid for work, prize money, etc you must return the money. The legal term for this is "Unjust Enrichment".

Now the questions remains will a judge see our side of things. Honestly, I don't know. But from what our lawyer says, we have a good chance given what the total prize money was listed as and when you do the math it's obvious that I wrote out twice the amount earned. Regardless, yes, we will fight this and I am not bluffing. Who in their right mind would just walk away from $9,000 that is allocated for special needs youth projects.

Luckily, we have received quite a bit of our prize money back from participants who understand the mistake that was made. I am awarding them with only having to pay back 75% and am giving them several free entries over the next few years. I've also set up payment plans for those who can't afford to pay back the overpaid amount.

Yes, I've decided to get our lawyers involved. I intend to fight this all the way through and unfortunately it will end up in court for some. I've been nice, it's obvious that we are a generous organization and when a few bad apples who can't find moral decency decide they are not going to give back what was overpaid, like spoiled children crying over ice cream, yes I will go all the way with this.

I had one elite runner tell me over the phone that its the elite athletes that make our race so prestigious. I almost vomited in my mouth when I heard that. They proceeded to tell me that this race wouldn't be what it is without the elite runners. Again I almost vomited. Who says things like that. I'll tel you who....The kind of people that aren't doing what is right in this situation.

Honestly who cares if we have elite athletes at our event. They make up about 25 of the almost 4,000 runners, that's less than a tenth of a percent. They want hotel accommodations, free entries, sometimes even asking for airfare, it's disgusting. To make matters worse we give them a ton of prize money that could be going to the majority of our demographic instead.

I think next year we should put the prize money towards our Masters Division. Too much drama and headache with the elites. So, yes, I don't care what the people on this blog think about me or our organization. We let our organization and what it's done and will continue to do speak for itself. I don't hide behind a screen name and throw out insulting remarks about others.

We were nice to those who didn't want to pay us what was overpaid. We tried to work out a deal with them. And now we're going to fight for what is right. Sorry about the long reply.....

This can't be real. Is this real?

Bob- how did you find time to post this in the midst of your 60 hour/52 weeks per year work week?

Do the right thing Bob, stop the threats.

It's crazy how you blame others for not understanding the prize money, when you are the one who apparently didn't even understand your own posting!

As far as I can tell, in 2014 your charity put 250% more into your bank acct than what you spent on giving back

I think that's definitely real. Brojos should call him and ask. Number is on their website

BOOM!!!!!! Drops mic and walks off stage.

Not a Blog wrote:

This isn't a blog. It is a message board.

You must be working for that other race in Indianapolis....

Sue Bozgoz wrote:

Not a Blog wrote:

This isn't a blog. It is a message board.

You must be working for that other race in Indianapolis....

I don't get this joke, but I'm guessing it is funny. I was simply pointing out that LRC is not a blog. It is a different kind of platform. Kind of like how I don't call a Honda Civic a truck.

But back to the RD post... I am thinking that is the troll post of the year. In fact, is anyone sure the whole damn race and charity wasn't dreamed up as an elaborate troll hoax for LRC? This all seems to be too insane for reality.

If you want to know how much a 501c3 gives back look at there 990's. This race is registered under 501c3 paper work. It's actully impossible for an organization to put this money into one of their officers own personal bank accounts. The IRS tracks all of this and check are made out to the organization, never in the history of non-profits has a check been made out to a personal officer. In short just look up 990's under Guide Star for our organization, that will show you the cost of the event, how much was given back, etc. This is all public knowledge as 501c3 are bound by law to report publicly.

I wonder if this race director could be any more condescending towards elite runners. Newsflash- This is, at least in part, how these runners make their income. How are they responsible for your false advertising?