Salazar, Farah, talk about use of L-carnitine, a legal supplement with 11% performance gains

Eat, Sleep, Run, Inject wrote:

Now you're trying, and failing, to minimize how shady this latest NOP enterprise sounds. I hate to break it to you, but flying half-way across the country just to have a certain well-known slime-ball doctor inject you with an amino acid as part of a new protocol that is supposed to magically gain you 2-3 minutes in the marathon without any additional work on your part, is not the same thing as drinking Gatorade.

+1. It doesn't matter of me if the procedure was technically legal in December of 2011 or December 2012, Ritz is a doper in spirit in my book. It pains me to say it, as he has always been one of my favorite professional runners.

I'm also hugely disappointed in Magness as well. By removing himself from competition, he acknowledged that his tests and injections violated the spirit of fair play. But he undertook these tests knowing that, if successful, Alberto would use these techniques to enhance the performance of his athletes.

I can't help but wonder if Magness had these concerns, realized he made a mistake, and consequently left the NOP prior to the 2012 Olympics. It would also explain his silence about the group then.

Overall, I'm disappointed by the whole situation.

Magness got booted because his athletes weren't doing well (Areson bombed at the trials) and also "some other stuff" (hint: not related to doping)

In agreement wrote:

"I also agree with the posters that claim you've used this message board to destroy the sport all for your financial gain. A kid must think it's impossible to win a medal or run fast time unless they cheat. If they do make it, all they have to look forward to is your website tearing them down to pieces. Well done."

-This was very well stated. I would agree, as would others in the running community I'm involved in. Has been the topic of discussion on more than one long run.

This is also false. First of all, what would you have them do: hide the filthy nature of track and field (and elite sports in general) so as not to corrupt tender young minds? In my opinion, it's better to arm young people with as much knowledge as possible as they try to navigate through the running world. And whatever you think of the site's founders on a personal level, you have to admit that the general message received by any regular reader is very much ANTI-DOPING.

And second, since LetsRun.com became well-known in the running community, it would be hard to argue that they've had a negative effect on young runners. The last 10-15 years has been a great era for the US in distance running, which has roughly coincided with the emergence of the so-called destructive LRC message boards. If the effects have been so negative, how come the US all-time lists have been re-written in events like the 5000 and 10000, and internationally competitive runners like Webb, Ritz, Solinsky, Rupp, Flanagan, Linden, Tegenkamp, Jager, and True have emerged? I give the credit to the runners themselves, not to the internet or a specific website, but it should be noted that it would be much easier to support an argument that LetsRun has helped up-and-coming US elite runners rather than hindered them.

Again, well said my friend.

Eat, Sleep, Run, Inject wrote:

[quote]In agreement wrote:

how come the US all-time lists have been re-written in events like the 5000 and 10000, and internationally competitive runners like Webb, Ritz, Solinsky, Rupp, Flanagan, Linden, Tegenkamp, Jager, and True have emerged?

Hmm, in every other case involving every other country, it turned out to be drugs. But yeah, in this case it was the internet.

Folks please just wait ~ three weeks; this message board will melt down ... WooHoo!! "...he's fcuked". Hahahaha..!! You read it here first.

Quite right. In Australia, there has been a big deal with the Essendon AFL club using peptides procured by some dodgy POS 'sports scientist'. ASADA went after them, but they were exonerated on a technicality. However, they were clearly trying to game the system, in other words, cheat. I agree that the up-and-coming kids in any sport should know the full extent of this BS, so they can hopefully choose to compete without enhancement, honourably.

It's what makes the difference between fast running and fatigue. I understand that you are wilfully ignorant, and I'm ok with that. Not everyone can hold an intelligent conversation.

wejo, thanks for the reply. I don't expect a reply to the email I sent you last week because, 1, you are too busy and 2, my ideas about doping have an additional belief to yours which you can't accept yet. You and rojo both kwow that some athletes don't need drugs to be the best in the World. If you extend that belief with logic and some knowledge of physiology and psychology you arrive at my belief, which is that so called PEDs are nothing of the sort.

I agree with you that injecting L-Carnitine is not acceptable. I think you agree with me that it did nothing for Dathan Ritzenhein?

It's a fact of life that people are obsessed with pills and potions, as I said in my email, the human race is obsessed with substances. But my point about how you and rojo should press the self belief issue still stands. I believe that I hold true to the Lydiard philosophy, even if I'm not a Lydiardist. I believe that I there are only two letsrun posters who get it;... you are only as good as your training and you don't need drugs to maximise this potential.

wtf?????? wrote:

what it is wrote:

I also don't believe in the concept of so called 'performance enhancing drugs'

wtf is this supposed to mean?

See post above.

obsessive or what wrote:

Transparency wrote:

Pal, no one cares about your "hypothesis" re lactate and no one on LR, except you, considers it worthwhile. If you get a hard on from studying it, good luck to you

maybe 'what it is' is on lactate to deal with his lactate obsessive disorder

Lactate infusions in obsessive-compulsive disorder

http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/4014509

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only poster here who actually knows what lactate is?

Aren't you the good science bad science idiot that made the thread that EPO and blood boosting was pointless and got absolutely destroyed by people with physiology backgrounds?

The poster who was arguing with me was contradicting himself over and over, and talking an awful lot of pseudoscience. This poster, aka Sir Lance a-lot/ Tyrannosaurus Rexing, is well known for arguing endlessly about things he doesn't understand. Have you been posting here long?

Try reading through it. But I will understand if you find that intolerable.

I did follow the whole thread, I've posted here for about 12 years and was not speaking about T Rex, and you contradicted yourself more than your detractors.

I didn't contradict myself at all. I was consistent. I raised points that the other guy was completely unaware of.

My basic point is that everyone is taught that EPO injections supposedly increase oxygen supply, but that would require more metabolic work to be done, when in fact elites run faster because they are more efficient.

Running is a skill. a point most runners overlook.

He contradicted himself by saying that fat was more efficient than glycogen and then spend two weeks arguing the exact opposite.

That's just for starters. We are talking about a guy with a serious personality disorder here. At first I thought was just pretending to be an ex phys expert for a joke, but actually he really wanted people to believe it. Look up any old posts by him under those other names and you'll see what I mean.

Increasing oxygen supply during training allows one to become more efficient. But I am done talking to a brick wall and diverting from the point of this thread, which is about L-carnitine not the legitimacy of doping improvements. Just wanted to point out to others that you were thoroughly debunked elsewhere.

Lastly, admitting that doping exists and helps elite endurance athletes does not drive away youth participation or force them to believe they have to cheat to succeed, as you seem to suggest.

yhrebray wrote:

Increasing oxygen supply during training allows one to become more efficient. .

Learn some basic physiology please. Your oxygen uptake is a combination of genetics and basic health and fitness. What you do with that oxygen is determined by your oxygen economy, your running skill.

I am the #1 April Fool.

BTW: I refuse to register my nic, so bigger fools have been stealing it.