van aaken

What was your training like between races?

Ed, do you take in liquids during these runs? How about any extras (other than the 10 minutes on the bike before you run). Do you chart your shoes or just replace them my looking at them? I know that we are bombarding your with lots of questions, but we are just trying to learn from your experience. Thanks for all your input.

I am having computer problems so am having trouble replying. Those two races were actually 6 weeks and 3 days apart. The 6 days after the first I ran 45 miles and then weeks of 56, 61, 47 and 37 miles which was normal mileage. The first few workouts were a continuation of winter training on a 153 yard per lap indoor track. We then went to a park for spring training. In one session about three weeks before Boston I ran 17 times hard up a small hill. Two days before that I ran 15 miles on the road in one hour and 28.2 minutes.

Three weeks after Boston I came down with a severe case of mono and was in bed for over 4 weeks.

Nine years later, while living in Southern California, I ran 3 marathons in 2:31:30 in nine weeks and one day with the last two being 16 days apart. My weekly training mileage was 204, 226, 227, 328, 265, 293 228, and 347 miles. I did steady running as I felt with a little fartlek and races as speed work.

Orville Atkins wrote:

Nine years later, while living in Southern California, I ran 3 marathons in 2:31:30 in nine weeks and one day with the last two being 16 days apart. My weekly training mileage was 204, 226, 227, 328, 265, 293 228, and 347 miles. I did steady running as I felt with a little fartlek and races as speed work.

Wow, weekly mileage? The 8th week you had to run 50 miles a day... and racing a marathon- now that is impressive. I always thought that you ran a moderate mileage. How did you manage to work and have some social life on that mileage?

I had a problem along the same lines. I worked myself into good shape (for me at the time) with a combinatition of fasting and long runs. I ran close to a pr at Boston (2:26 and change) then was out of commission for almost a month. I did not get checked as I was afraid that they would tell me not to train/race- so instead I was wandering around running 180 miles a week and only running 34+ for the 10k. Did you take the entire 4 weeks off or just cut down? How was your rebirth? Did you go right into high miles or with a slow progression? With these miles was there a long run or runs or just constant running? How many workouts a week? Sorry for all the questions, but the more we (those who run and coach) can learn from the soliders in the field (as opposed to what a lab tells us) the better off we will be in the future. Thanks in advance for all you knowledge.

I AM SORRY BUT THAT WAS MY MONTHLY MILEAGE!

I am sure most of you had already assumed that. Except the 20 months I ran with Igloi my mileage was usually well under 100 miles a week.

I am glad to respond to questions. My log shows that I had a temperature of between 101 and 102 degrees plus severe headaches, and most of my lymph nodes were swollen and tender. I was in bed for a week. I then got up once a day to walk a short time and then it was back to bed for constant sleep. It was a week later that I went back to work half days. After 6 weeks I jogged one mile and then added a half a mile a day every day untile I was going 10; miles. I jogged on the outside lane of the track where the East York Track Club was training. I had days when I felt OK and days when I felt rotten.

I was attempting to make Canada's Empire Games Team. The Marathon Trial was held in St. Hyacinthe, Quebec on September 3rd. My log shows that I ran 3 loops of the 4 loop course in 36, 36, and 40 and then droppped out in 7th place. It states: "Learned that I should not quite".

I was searching for some old posts that might contain your success with the 75 miles per week training that was successful for you and found a quote in which you said you would do a 25-30 miler every second week if in serious training.

Do you still feel that way, Orville?

Bob, At this point I am not sure if I needed the years of repetition work to get extremelly fit and bring out any basic speed I had or not but I believe that the long run of 25 to 30 miles is a must for marathoners with mostly slow twitch muscles. Now I would do tht long run every second week. I would like to be able to give it a try running 100 to 120 miles a week for a few years. The speed work would be a little fartlek as I felt and many shorter races on the weekends. I think Ed Whitlock has the secret.

Is it not a shame that we discover what we should have done in our younger years- now that it may be too late. That is the importance of threads like this. The coaching that is concerned with current times, places-- results at the expense of the future. Runners like Mr. Whitlock is setting the standard for the rest of us and he is even leaving us a road map to follow.

Orville,

YOur idea of running 25-30 mile long runs every other weekend has merit. Kenny Moore, under Bowerman's guidance, ran 30-35 miles every 9-10 days.

I coached an ultramarathoner with mostly a mid-week 18-21 mile run and a weekend 25-35 mile run who won the Mt Fuji Mt race in Japan. The other days each week he ran only about 9-10 miles slowly. He ran extremely well in half-marathons to ultra-marathons using this approach. I suspect something akin to this would have worked well for you, too. Tinman

vladimir wrote:

Ed, do you take in liquids during these runs? How about any extras (other than the 10 minutes on the bike before you run). Do you chart your shoes or just replace them my looking at them? I know that we are bombarding your with lots of questions, but we are just trying to learn from your experience. Thanks for all your input.

No I don't take any liquids on the training runs even in the hottest weather here. I have got away from the bicycle warm up, I just start very slowly now. I am not particular about my shoes and their specs, I have several pairs on the go at any time and rotate their use in a non structured fashion. I wear them down well past what would be generally recommended.

Thanks Orville. That is very helpful.

Thanks Tinman also. It puzzles me that there isn't more information about Kenny Moore's training being discussed these days. How many others qualified to represent their country in two consecutive marathons.

Of course you are right Vladimir. We are all following Ed Whitlock's races and training information. It appears to me that your training is along his lines now with the exception of racing.

I am just very happy that several individuals have come to the same training conclusion from separate areas. My training is like his, but not based upon it. I want to learn as much as I can (to support and enhance) my own training concepts. Hopefully I will be into the racing aspects very soon. I want to get into biweekly races (not as races - but more like a structured tempo run with people and aid stations.

Thanks for the quick reply. I am just tryuing to pick your brain on all aspects of your training. I have trained under the same basic concepts for most of my life- however since the passing of Dr. Van Aaken I still need some confirmation from out side parties. Looking forward to your continued success.

Not to be the pessimist here, but I have, in recent years, had several stretches of time when I was training along lines that aren't too dissimilar from what Ed's doing these days and it hasn't produced the same results as it did the first time around. I know that Ed's always said that he didn't do the sorts of mileage in his younger years that he's doing now, so I gather this is pretty much his first big go-round with high volume.

Ed, I hope it keeps working for you and vladmir, I hope you'll keep us all posted on how things work out for you if you get back to the old "van Aaken" approach. I'd be interested if you know of any really long term veterans EvA advised and if they found really high volume was beneficial indefinitely.

I think that as Mr. Whitlock stated he has continued to add to the two (2) hours where he is now working on three (3). I hope to avoid any set backs and it is easier said than done. I tweaked my calf, by doing my strides last week on an indoor track. This week was supposed to be two (2) hours a day and I had to drop back to 1:40-1:50 everyday this week. My strides this week will once again be on a rubber floor without banks and sharp turns.