If he plays like this for another 5-10 years, I think he's got a shot of having a HOF case like Adam Dunn.
'He's got a shot'. If he plays for two more years, even with moderate productivity they'll put him in, regardless of the 10 year rule. This man is incredible.
Even with a relatively short career, I think he would make the Hall of Fame much like Yao Ming who only played 8 seasons. Their influence on the game has been astounding.
Alex Rodriguez hit 258 home runs in his 30s and 9 when he was 40.
Pujols hit 354 home runs after he was 30 including 64 HRs in his 40s.
Babe Ruth who was overweight and didn't have any of the modern nutrition or health care support modern athletes get hit 427 home runs after he was 30 and played until he was 40.
It might not be likely but it's absurd to claim it's "highly unlikely" or that there's "no chance".
ARod was a cheater, so he doesn't count...neither does Bonds.
Pujols is one of the rare exceptions. Most power hitters see significant decline around age 35.
Babe Ruth was just better than the pitchers of the day...and even so, just another exception. Hank Aaron is also an exception. Ohtani has a history of injury issues, so he doesn't appear at this stage to be one of the iron men that the exceptions were.
He will end up with fewer HRs and RBIs than Adam Dunn.
Adam Dunn? He was a terrible all-around player and there are many HOFers with fewer homers and RBI.
Yep. Dunn's batting average plummeted in his last 4 years (typical of people at the end of their careers), so he was a .250 guy for most of his career. Ohtani is currently at .277. Not that far off really...and assuming Ohtani plays long enough to see deterioration, it is likely his career average will edge ever closer to .237...likely not quite getting there, but we could see it in the .260s easily.
Ohtani is a power hitter, so the comparison there with Dunn is appropriate. Dunn was really just 38 HRs away (he would then have had 500) from a likely Hall of Fame election.
Note that it is highly unlikely that Ohtani will end up with more HRs or RBIs than Dunn.
It’s hard to predict the future and it’s hard to predict baseball. Even granting that, Ohtani has been making you look ridiculous for years now. 50/50 is just the latest UNPRECEDENTED thing.
You oscillate between saying banal truisms amounting to “Young Star X needs to keep performing to make the HOF” to profoundly dumb things like “if Adam Dunn had 38 more home runs he would have been elected to the HOF.”
With Ohtani, you are prospectively speculating on how baseball writers in 10-15 years will vote on the HOF based upon methodology that is already 25 years out of date. It’s like saying a company won’t be in business in 2040 because they don’t take out enough ads in the phone book.
Yep. Dunn's batting average plummeted in his last 4 years (typical of people at the end of their careers), so he was a .250 guy for most of his career. Ohtani is currently at .277. Not that far off really...and assuming Ohtani plays long enough to see deterioration, it is likely his career average will edge ever closer to .237...likely not quite getting there, but we could see it in the .260s easily.
Ohtani is a power hitter, so the comparison there with Dunn is appropriate. Dunn was really just 38 HRs away (he would then have had 500) from a likely Hall of Fame election.
Note that it is highly unlikely that Ohtani will end up with more HRs or RBIs than Dunn.
And, importantly, you have no concept of VALUE. The value of 38 home runs in a 14 year career is negligible. Yet you think it would be enough to get Dunn from his actual vote total of 1 vote (0.3%) to the 298 (75%) needed for election.
Not one baseball writer with a HOF vote misunderstands the game as bad as you do. They will vote Ohtani in if he deserves it.
In the meantime I will enjoying watching a player who can hit 50+ home runs and steal 50+ bases in a season—and throw 102 miles per hour. A guy about whom you said: “I don’t think Ohtani has Hall of Fame talent.”
Bonds was a doper and is not qualified to be discussed. Ruth played old baseball, no stolen bases, no throwing at hitters, no fakes, etc. as in Black baseball, and Ruth could never make the bigs today. Shohei is the greatest baseball player of all time.
Bonds was a doper and is not qualified to be discussed. Ruth played old baseball, no stolen bases, no throwing at hitters, no fakes, etc. as in Black baseball, and Ruth could never make the bigs today. Shohei is the greatest baseball player of all time.
That's stupid, great is great, it transcends eras.
Bonds was a doper and is not qualified to be discussed. Ruth played old baseball, no stolen bases, no throwing at hitters, no fakes, etc. as in Black baseball, and Ruth could never make the bigs today. Shohei is the greatest baseball player of all time.
That's stupid, great is great, it transcends eras.
No, it doesn’t and you can’t compare Ohtani to a player from 100 years ago. When Ruth played, it was just fastballs and curves with no 10mph guys coming out of the bullpen. Now there are sliders, splitters, cutters and ridiculously good change ups. Ted Williams said the reason there hasn’t been another .400 hitter is because of advent of the slider during the ‘50s.
Pitch recognition skills are genetic and there’s no way of knowing if Ruth could hit today’s pitching.
That's stupid, great is great, it transcends eras.
No, it doesn’t and you can’t compare Ohtani to a player from 100 years ago. When Ruth played, it was just fastballs and curves with no 10mph guys coming out of the bullpen. Now there are sliders, splitters, cutters and ridiculously good change ups. Ted Williams said the reason there hasn’t been another .400 hitter is because of advent of the slider during the ‘50s.
Pitch recognition skills are genetic and there’s no way of knowing if Ruth could hit today’s pitching.
Yes, and hitters have more data, video, and technology tools today to study pitchers and prepare for them than ever before, including a robot that mimics the delivery of pitchers. Can you imagine if Ruth had access to this tech?
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That's stupid, great is great, it transcends eras.
No, it doesn’t and you can’t compare Ohtani to a player from 100 years ago. When Ruth played, it was just fastballs and curves with no 10mph guys coming out of the bullpen. Now there are sliders, splitters, cutters and ridiculously good change ups. Ted Williams said the reason there hasn’t been another .400 hitter is because of advent of the slider during the ‘50s.
Pitch recognition skills are genetic and there’s no way of knowing if Ruth could hit today’s pitching.
Bob Feller and Stephen Dalkowski were a bit after Ruth but they pitched every bit as fast or even faster than today's pitchers. There were others in that era who could pitch super fast.
The relief pitchers of today have really changed the game as well as all the different pitches that are common today. But I am curious how the baseball and bat have changed since Ruth.
No, it doesn’t and you can’t compare Ohtani to a player from 100 years ago. When Ruth played, it was just fastballs and curves with no 10mph guys coming out of the bullpen. Now there are sliders, splitters, cutters and ridiculously good change ups. Ted Williams said the reason there hasn’t been another .400 hitter is because of advent of the slider during the ‘50s.
Pitch recognition skills are genetic and there’s no way of knowing if Ruth could hit today’s pitching.
Yes, and hitters have more data, video, and technology tools today to study pitchers and prepare for them than ever before, including a robot that mimics the delivery of pitchers. Can you imagine if Ruth had access to this tech?
There are many players with power and a great swing, that even with all the new technology, cannot pick up the slider in time to not chase it out of the strike zone, and as a result, never make it to the majors. Like I said, pitch recognition skills are genetic.
Yes, and hitters have more data, video, and technology tools today to study pitchers and prepare for them than ever before, including a robot that mimics the delivery of pitchers. Can you imagine if Ruth had access to this tech?
There are many players with power and a great swing, that even with all the new technology, cannot pick up the slider in time to not chase it out of the strike zone, and as a result, never make it to the majors. Like I said, pitch recognition skills are genetic.
Skills have both genetic and learned components. Baseball instruction today includes pitch recognition training.
As you said, “there’s no way of knowing if Ruth could hit today’s pitching.” I say there’s no reason to think he couldn’t. And I’ll add that we have no way of knowing if Ohtani would have thrived 100 years ago without the modern benefits he enjoys today.
Because we can’t magically transport players from previous eras to today, nor take current stars and send them back in time, GOAT debates in team sports can only be based on how players did against their competition.
There are many players with power and a great swing, that even with all the new technology, cannot pick up the slider in time to not chase it out of the strike zone, and as a result, never make it to the majors. Like I said, pitch recognition skills are genetic.
Skills have both genetic and learned components. Baseball instruction today includes pitch recognition training.
As you said, “there’s no way of knowing if Ruth could hit today’s pitching.” I say there’s no reason to think he couldn’t. And I’ll add that we have no way of knowing if Ohtani would have thrived 100 years ago without the modern benefits he enjoys today.
Because we can’t magically transport players from previous eras to today, nor take current stars and send them back in time, GOAT debates in team sports can only be based on how players did against their competition.
There’s no such thing as pitching recognition training and the lack of the skill is why many players with great bat speed don’t make it to the major leagues.
Ohtani doesn’t have any modern benifits. Having access to videos doesn’t make any difference.
Skills have both genetic and learned components. Baseball instruction today includes pitch recognition training.
As you said, “there’s no way of knowing if Ruth could hit today’s pitching.” I say there’s no reason to think he couldn’t. And I’ll add that we have no way of knowing if Ohtani would have thrived 100 years ago without the modern benefits he enjoys today.
Because we can’t magically transport players from previous eras to today, nor take current stars and send them back in time, GOAT debates in team sports can only be based on how players did against their competition.
There’s no such thing as pitching recognition training and the lack of the skill is why many players with great bat speed don’t make it to the major leagues.
Ohtani doesn’t have any modern benifits. Having access to videos doesn’t make any difference.
there's pitch recognition training. it's just not actually effective at the highest levels. you have it or you don't.
There’s no such thing as pitching recognition training and the lack of the skill is why many players with great bat speed don’t make it to the major leagues.
Ohtani doesn’t have any modern benifits. Having access to videos doesn’t make any difference.
there's pitch recognition training. it's just not actually effective at the highest levels. you have it or you don't.
Obtaining good pitch recognition skills requires thousands of reps and there is no specific training. A hitter being told to look for spin, and more specifically a “red dot”, won’t help him.
Babe Ruth played in the Xiongnu-Neanderthal HAPA segregation era. It was a slow same, no fakes, no stealing bases, etc. So it's really a different game since integration in the 1950s changed how the game is played.
Babe Ruth played in the Xiongnu-Neanderthal HAPA segregation era. It was a slow same, no fakes, no stealing bases, etc. So it's really a different game since integration in the 1950s changed how the game is played.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Ty Cobb had nearly 900 steals in his career, including 96 in one year. Max Carey had over 700 steals. Ruth himself had 123.
