Sub 2h30 Spring Marathon - The Quest For Amateur Glory Rides Again!

Ganbatte wrote:

RunningInEurope wrote:

Was very hot this week, so had to slow it down a bit. Still a very solid week, my first 100 mile week in a while! It looks like some races here are happening again in September, really hoping to run a few tune-up races before my marathon in late October.

The heat is brutal!

What are you going to do for your tune-up races?

Either run what’s available or do a time trial... or find some local fast people and improvise a “race”. I did this a few months ago, the fastest local guy and me ran a HM, just the two of us. The conditions weren’t very good but I think we both still got the most out of it.

This is the marathon I referred to in an earlier post - entries now live and filling quickly. With London , Paris, Frankfurt etc cancelled, this is a great option for any UK (and European I guess) based runners who can demonstrate a sub 2:40 capability. I understand the organisers are being pretty loose with that and considering previous marathons and halfs that would indicate it's a realistic goal.

https://runcheshire.niftyentries.com/Wrexham-Elite-Marathon

My training is coming together reasonably well for it. I've got a PB of just under 2:31 from 2018 and after a couple of stop-start blocks since then, feel like a sub 2:30 is coming together. 22 miles with 2 x 5 miles at 5:40 min/miling last weekend has been a good confidence booster!

Ganbatte wrote:

reed wrote:

my week last week ended up weird...did a 23mi/4.5hr mountain run a couple days after my 800m. so if variety of training stimulus is good, then I'll be in good shape soon.

ended up with 73ish miles, kind of a down week for me still but transitioning back to 80+ for the next block of training.

Next week I hope to hit the track or roads for some longer intervals around 5k/10k pace, and hope to get in a quicker long run over the weekend, like 18mi under 6:30 pace hopefully

23 miles in the mountains seems tough. Do you do a lot of trail running?

I hope training this week goes well!

Not in the last couple months but yeah, I bounce back and forth between racing ultras and road stuff. Hard for me to get out on trails much, especially in the summer, so I'm focused on road this fall.

75 miles this week, which is what I'm basically doing for all of August.

my week got weird wednesday evening on a 4mi double when I got stung by 5 wasps while picking some berries. spent thurs/fri dealing with some kinda bad swelling in my left leg, especially around my ankle.

I was planning on a second 800m attempt Fri morning but decided that going 100% effort with a swollen ankle/foot wasn't worth the risk, especially to maybe improve by 1 second. Paced my friend's tempo instead. he did 2mi, 2mi, 1.5mi at 5:45 pace and I did the first 4mi continuous, took the 2min rest because I forgot that I was going to skip it, then added 3mi. so about 12k at 5:45 pace in fairly warm conditions. effort felt faster than 5:45s but not by a whole lot. maybe 5:38-5:40 effort.

Today I did 20mi with 17 miles at 6:25/mi with some rolling hills, maybe 400 or 500' within those 17mi. was gonna be 110 degrees today so started at 6:45 but it was overcast instead and never got hotter than mid 80s probably. did a good chunk under 6:20 pace and it felt pretty comfortable, but I'm definitely not in marathon shape yet. felt like a good first long run in a cycle.

plan for next week is one midweek fartlek then a 5k TT on saturday. hopefully about 75 miles again.

I ran almost 100mi this week, despite having to take Monday (and last Sunday off). I had a very sore achilles, almost certainly caused by an eight hour drive the previous Friday and another eight hour drive back on Sunday (my car does not have cruise control...)

In any case, with ice and exercise it quickly healed and I was able to do all my other sessions this week.

Mon: 1.8km (then I walked home)

Tue: 8k am, 16k pm

Wed: 10k am, 25k pm (@ 4:07/km)

Thu: 9k am, 10k pm

Fri: 9k am, 22k pm (@ 4:26/km)

Sat: 16k

Sun: 32k (20mi) w/ 20k @ MP

The long run today actually felt very good (I felt strong and fast) but the marathon-pace section wasn't even close (most km's were more like 3:4x, whereas they should have been 3:33). However, it felt like the right effort, but because it's an undulating course it's quite hard to tell whether I was running "on pace" or way too slow. It didn't help that at some point the GPS got confused, too. What gives me confidence is the 32k w/ 16k @ MP I did a few weeks ago, on a flat course.

So far, all three marathons I'm registered for this fall are still not cancelled, fingers crossed.

BTW, here in Germany the Nike website says that Alphafly and Next% will be in stock again soon...

albarunner wrote:

This is the marathon I referred to in an earlier post - entries now live and filling quickly. With London , Paris, Frankfurt etc cancelled, this is a great option for any UK (and European I guess) based runners who can demonstrate a sub 2:40 capability. I understand the organisers are being pretty loose with that and considering previous marathons and halfs that would indicate it's a realistic goal.

https://runcheshire.niftyentries.com/Wrexham-Elite-Marathon

My training is coming together reasonably well for it. I've got a PB of just under 2:31 from 2018 and after a couple of stop-start blocks since then, feel like a sub 2:30 is coming together. 22 miles with 2 x 5 miles at 5:40 min/miling last weekend has been a good confidence booster!

I'm running the Wrexham Elite Marathon and I'm based close and have completed a few races around the industrial park its on and can tell you will be flat and well organised.

If anyone is at a loose end or feeling really helpful would you be willing to check out my strava (

) and give me advice on aimed marathon time of 2.34 in regards to if that's right (could I go quicker?) and also what workouts/changes need to be included to get me to peak on October 4th.

ultra bear / michael...how can you have just done 35k at 5:59/mi (2:37 marathon pace) and be worried about running 2:34 in 6 weeks?

don't do any more runs like that though or you'll be fried by race day.

55min for 10mi should get you to about 2:34 anyway. I had a friend a couple years ago run 54high on a sort of hilly course and go on to run 2:34-2:35 that season, but he's much better at the 10mi distance than the marathon.

only other thing I'd say is that I didn't see consistent workouts every week for the last month or two (only checked a few weeks). Lots of jogging, which is fine, but you probably need to do more quality.

last thing...quit logging your "warmups" for easy runs. nobody wants to see that on their strava feed. lucky you have me to anonymously tell you that, but it probably annoys your friends who are too nice to tell you.

I noticed at your Strava that your easy runs are a bit slower than mine, but that 22mi run looks amazing. What was the perceived effort? I think 2.34 sounds very realistic for you (also per what @reed says).

I am doing the Wrexham Elite Marathon aiming for 2'29...

It has been a long year of training, I thought I was in great shape for London back in March and then have more or less been training since, I'll probably clock my 3,000th mile of the year next week or early the week after.

Last 6 weeks have been average 99.4 miles with lots of quality, I think my best session was a solo effort of 5*(1km @95% MP/3.7km@MP) - managed to even at out at 14.6 miles at 5'46 pace. Last week I was supposed to do 4*(1km@95% MP/5km MP), but I dropped after 3 reps as I was exhausted.

I am starting to feel a bit beaten up. The next two weeks I am racing a 3000 and 10k road, so will reduce the mileage down to about 85ish per week before a final 2 week push of 100+

Thanks for the reply sincerely appreciated.

Im confidient of 2:34 but I'm inexperienced, so Im really glad you guys looked it over and I take you dont think that's misplaced (2.34 aim). My heart rate (Yes take with massive pinch of salt) was 157 for training run and I marathon at 162-166 so it was dangerously close but 6 weeks out I think I wanted a shot of confidience.

My half PB (virtual but I'm claiming it) is 72.01. Could I push to 2.32 or I am getting greedy and risking blow up?

Your right about the quality work outs. Its partly laziness/fear of running at high speed. Dont like/don't do it. Ill grow a pair and start doing it if I'm really taking this seriously. Any sessions you'd suggest?

Regarding the WU, I was (Ive now finished) doing a virtual ultramarathin multi-leg race so I wanted to submit the faster bits of the run. So I totally agree with you and this won't happen again going forward. Apologies to you and my followers.

Thanks again to both of you have given advice!

Sounds like your doing brilliantly. A 2 week taper can work its magic and hopefully youll peak on the day. Good luck with the last block of training.

What 10k time are you aiming for to create confidience for 2.29 marathon?

Hey man,

Thanks! I’m aiming for around 32’45 - 33’00 for the 10k which would be a big PB. I’ve gone under 16 for 5k a couple of times during the pandemic on an accurately measured local course so hoping that it’s achievable.

Although the 10k is going to be socially distanced and set off in waves of 6 and I suspect that most will be aiming for sub 40, so it could be an odd event.

Best of luck with the last few weeks training.

Cheers!

**Geoff Capes** wrote:

Hey man,

Thanks! I’m aiming for around 32’45 - 33’00 for the 10k which would be a big PB. I’ve gone under 16 for 5k a couple of times during the pandemic on an accurately measured local course so hoping that it’s achievable.

Although the 10k is going to be socially distanced and set off in waves of 6 and I suspect that most will be aiming for sub 40, so it could be an odd event.

Best of luck with the last few weeks training.

Cheers!

That's probably in the range I was thinking. Its not the Farndon 10k by the same organisers the week before the Wrexham marathon? If so, that's the one I'm doing. If not I understand the risk of doing a 10k the week before but I'm blindly saying Olympians do so can I...., and more honestly if the marathon goes badly I might at least get a 10k PB out of it (mines 33:58 currently).

Based on what you posted I recon the 5k target and 10k times are achievable. I wouldn't have been surprised by you saying slightly quicker but the marathon training probably conditioned you to churn out the marathon pace! We're probably in the same ball park but your more quality training plan means I recon you'll be a good few minutes ahead of where I'll aim at.

I’m signed up for Wrexham as well but not sure I’m coming. Had some asthma issues during the past few months and am just getting back into shape. I’m not too keen on travelling to wales to run 5 mins off my Pb :/

DietBacon wrote:

I’m signed up for Wrexham as well but not sure I’m coming. Had some asthma issues during the past few months and am just getting back into shape. I’m not too keen on travelling to wales to run 5 mins off my Pb :/

Hope the issues clear up and you can make it. Just so you all know this course will be the best selling you've ever done (if that helps tempt you), there's lots of food production factories on the industrial estate and it honestly will smell good/might make you hungry.

Smelling!

It's not, mate... It's in Battersea Park in London, so pretty flat, but probably four laps, so the last lap might be quite busy. Yeah, I think I'm very much on the boundary of being able to go 2'29, I'm hoping that the high mileage will push the conversion in my favour slightly. I've just checked and I've averaged 83 miles a week for 2020 - no wonder I'm tired haha.

Anyway, I've followed you on Strava, so maybe see you in Wrexham!

@Diet Bacon - I hear you on that, it's an odd one to do unless you're in the right shape.

I'm not an expert but I'd advise you not worry too much about heart rate data. there's too many external factors impacting HR to really use it as a gauge of effort. perceived effort is 1000x more accurate.

72flat half time trial? that indicates much better than 2:34 as well. I think I'm in about 2:32 shape right now but there's no way I'd run 72flat solo. I ran 71high in a race but mostly alone, and I was in 2:29 shape 6 weeks later.

as for some suggested workouts...just look through earlier pages of this forum from months ago. people commonly do 3-4 x 2mi at tempo pace, broken tempo runs, mile repeats, and progression runs.

@reed thanks again. I think I'm probably angling/wishing that someone might say you Michael you are the best, you should go for 2:30. As to stroke my ego and make me think I'm better (then I probably am). Thats probably what my deep down psychy wants.

I now think Im just trying to decide if to go for 2.34 is right as I think a double or roll the dice at 2.30 due to arbitary sub elite status and free entry to some races for 2 years. Although going out at 75min half probably reasonable leads to a blowup and not even a PB.

Not being an arrogant idiot with naivety to underestimate the marathon vs you.only live once bravery.

I'll get on those workouts, cheers.

@geoff capes good milage, surely cutting back as you've got a massive endurance base Will mean you've still got the tank for 26.2 but have a freshness to give it some speed.