Training Discussion Thread - outsiderunner

RR&T Historian wrote:

Those splits are correct.

Yes, that was my point. Who could have them other than Juan? I did not see anyone at the side of the road with a stopwatch.

OR your first mile was a 5:48 and Juan was at 5:49? I'm trying to reconcile that with the race report above.

Smelly_Cat wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:

Zatopek. The Triple Crown of distance running. A legend of legends.

Not to sidetrack this thread, but hey, dude, you're a beast. I remember seeing you in the "tired of injuries, may just bow out" thread. Apparently you've made a lot of progress since then, in terms of both injuries (sciatica, if my memory serves me right) and fitness. That's so encouraging for someone who has been battling chronic hip issues for three years! (my problem stems from the abductor, which is confirmed by MRI as increased signal in the gluteus medius, minimus and maximus, especially in the medius and minimus) What's your secret? How do you come back stronger than ever?

someone>>>me

Sorry for the typo.

Yes, too hot, that is true. I would say that Juan had about 3 or 4 seconds on me at the mile mark. My splits are as per my watch, which measured 5.03 miles total. In 2016, this race was significantly short, at 4.91 miles total. Anyone who was paying attention knew it.

Anyway, my watch signaled “mile 1” just before I passed the mile 1 sign. The rest of the splits mentioned by Historian seem correct.

You'll note the times OR provided total 25:16 while his official time was 25:25. The shortcomings of GPS reported laps unfortunately. Were those 9s split evenly between all 5 miles, or did it "lap" a touch short on the first mile and maintain accuracy from there? We may never know...but based on OR's description it sounds like the second one.

RR&T Historian wrote:

You'll note the times OR provided total 25:16 while his official time was 25:25. The shortcomings of GPS reported laps unfortunately. Were those 9s split evenly between all 5 miles, or did it "lap" a touch short on the first mile and maintain accuracy from there? We may never know...but based on OR's description it sounds like the second one.

Also...to add another layer to this...my watch recorded 5.03 miles, which from my experience would seem about right for a 5-miler, and I am pretty sure that last .03 was 10.2 seconds.

Thanks for the clarification. Reading the original race report, it comes across as though Matt and Juan had a much bigger gap on OR. If it was only 3-4 seconds, then it would benefit OR to be up there with them.

Yeah...I would say it was 3-4 secs. early on, and then they increased their lead in mile 2, and after that I started to chip away. Mile 2 was hilly and had some gravel sections. Everyone seemed to think it was a slow mile. The guy I mention in my race report, the guy who kept getting in my way, prevented me from pulling up to Matt and Juan in the first mile. It was quite annoying and he threw off my rhythm. He ran with loud, heavy steps, too.

A good one this morning. 10 x 0.65...5:45.8 avg. on the speed reps vs. 5:47.2 last time (two weeks ago). For me, any kind of success with intervals makes me feel GOOD. 13.19 mi total (2.5/2.5)...6:34 overall pace.

Happy running!

outsiderunner wrote:

A good one this morning. 10 x 0.65...5:45.8 avg. on the speed reps vs. 5:47.2 last time (two weeks ago). For me, any kind of success with intervals makes me feel GOOD. 13.19 mi total (2.5/2.5)...6:34 overall pace.

Happy running!

Nice job on these workouts looks to me like you're crushing it! What's your rest for these .65 repeats? Incidentally, I have almost identical PRs as you (from the first post in this thread) although I'm M24 (PRs 17:40 5K and 2:46 marathon). I may try this one next week or next next week to see how I would do as well.

Thanks, jot quill.

The rests are fairly short at 75 seconds. For me, the mid 5:40s pace is 10k pace. It is a good workout...challenging, but not imposssible. Gives me a big high afterward, too.

Weekend weather is looking nasty. I may move my LR/with MP to Saturday morning. That seems to be my best window of opportunity.

Will be doing my LR with MP finish tomorrow instead of Sunday, as per the weather. Snow/freezing rain coming in the late morning, and so I will look to be off the roads before it hits. Sunday looks like a beast of a day...cold and very windy.

Weather was much improved this morning...some wind, but it did not bother me.

Did a 2/8/2 workout, the 8 being a straight MP block. Splits were...

7:40, 7:29

6:17, 6:15, 6:10, 6:06, 6:03, 6:01, 6:00, 5:53

7:02, 7:00

Avg. for the MP block was 6:05.6. Felt good the whole way. My previous best for this workout was a 2/7/2 with and avg. of 6:04.0.

So, it was a good run, but I still want to be calmer and more relaxed at this pace.

Now for some music, as I have the day off. How ‘bout some early 80s New Wave?

Happy running!

I am sorry I am a bit late in posting this race report. This is pretty much what I conveyed to my coach.

Race report...

Conditions: cloudy, 25F, and not much wind

The race went okay, but I think I had some more left. Ran 17:32 on a fair course. Got 4th overall. Juan won and beat me by :12, running 17:20. Matt was second, and beat me by :08. One of Matt’s h.s. kids (he is a coach) was third, :04 ahead of me (chip time).

Was with a group of about eight (the lead group) for the first mile, with a watch split of 5:39, and basically right behind Juan. Matt was there, too, among others. That first mile was on a gravel path by the river, and so pretty flat. To me, the gravel felt rather slow. There was some gradual climbing in the second mile. Things got strung out at about 1.4, with Juan breaking away some, and Matt and the h.s. kid getting between us. I went with Matt and the kid, with Juan in sight ahead.

I believe I need to learn more about gauging my effort, and be able to discern what is truly out of my comfort zone. I did, though, surge on Matt and the kid twice. We were running together quite closely. They covered both of my moves. I split them like uprights at about 2.2 and then passed them again, this time on the inside, at about 2.5. There were some little rollers thereafter, and I should have surged again and pounced. But I did not.

I heard the kid huffing and puffing, and my breathing was much better in comparison. There was a right turn and an uphill, getting near the finish straight. After that uphill came a downhill, and then a steep little downhill just before the mile 3 sign, with my boss (he was the RD) standing by taking pictures. That little steep downhill threw me off some. I was trying not to fall down. Once I was on the flat-to-slightly uphill finish straightaway, I then spotted the finish, and feeling good, surged when I saw the finish The race measured 3.12 on my watch, and I ran the last .12 in 33.57...4:40 pace. Closed the gap some on the 3rd place kid, but it was too little, too late. I actually felt good in that .12 surge. I second guess that I could have gone harder earlier than that. Again, the kid’s breathing was obviously more labored than mine.

To put this race in perspective, my PR is 17:26 (on 12/2/18) a few weeks after Richmond. So, :06 behind that today. Splits for today were 5:39, 5:45, 5:37, 33.57, as per the watch.

I say “today,” but I mean Sat., 1/26/19.

Happy running...

OutsideRunner, are you on Strava?

No, I am not on Strava. No facebook, either. I am a pretty low-key “luddite,” I suppose. Just got a cell phone (for Christmas...from my wife) about a month ago. Still am afraid to use it.

Do you perhaps have a question about Saturday’s course? Or something else? Let me know if I can help.

One other point of interest...I wore the Nike Zoom Streak LT4 for the race, right out of the box, too. What an awesome racing flat. I have used the LT3, but this version is better. The upper is soft and has some nice “flex” to it, and the shoe fits well and “disappears” in a run. Mine are in that snappy blackened blue color.

outsiderunner wrote:

Yeah...I would say it was 3-4 secs. early on, and then they increased their lead in mile 2, and after that I started to chip away. Mile 2 was hilly and had some gravel sections. Everyone seemed to think it was a slow mile. The guy I mention in my race report, the guy who kept getting in my way, prevented me from pulling up to Matt and Juan in the first mile. It was quite annoying and he threw off my rhythm. He ran with loud, heavy steps, too.

LMAO next time someone blocks you like that tap his elbow right when it is going forward. Talk about being thrown off rhythm.

Sorry, OR haven't been reading much lately. Lost your thread and haven't back read very far. One thing that I don't understand is how someone or maybe you earlier mentioned a lack of confidence racing. If anyone should have confidence in the later parts of a race it should be you. Every one of your progression runs you did in the past unintentionally prepared you to be in a good position at the end of a race. I doubt anyone your racing against knows what they have left as you do. So, you don't have great top-end speed for a kick. Just start your drive to the finish sooner and take it away from them too.

Thanks OR, no just curious to see your running in general. Thought it would be interesting to see it over a longer time frame rather than weekly posts, the conversations between you and Stonecutter on how you train are really interesting, thanks for sharing it on Letsrun.