If it meant less and less as the distances increased you would see lower numbers from the best ultra guys but you don't.
What you do see is all runners who expect to excel having high numbers.
Doesn't mean you don't add to that with great economy and a high lactate threshold.
You need it all.
Nobody said a high number means you will excel at the marathon if your body is that of a skier cyclist or swimmer.
All of those athletes have high numbers though.
Captain Oblivious wrote:
Still high numbers and the talent pool has risen even higher since then.
Let's get up to date, shall we?
I doubt ANY top runner of today would register less than an 80.
You know it's true.
Looks like J.R. won this battle a few pages ago.
Captain Waffling wrote:
Captain Oblivious wrote:Still high numbers and the talent pool has risen even higher since then.
Let's get up to date, shall we?
I doubt ANY top runner of today would register less than an 80.
You know it's true.
Looks like J.R. won this battle a few pages ago.
No, the battle is fought on the roads, tracks and trails by the guys with the off the charts V02 numbers.
J.R. is probably at the doctor.
You are insane. There is NO way he would even lose let alone get lapped.
envirapod guy wrote:
Captain Oblivious wrote:I guess you guys forgot that the women run over lower barriers?
Who forgot that? Obviously what is meant is that Kilian Jornet runs with the men's barriers in a time trial situation with a pacer through 1k, and then compare his time to Emma's. I also think he would lose, badly. He probably loses 28 seconds to emma over the barriers, meaning he'd have to run a flat 3k in around 8:00 to have a shot.
Why do you bring up something totally unrelated. I mean, people usually do this when they don't have a proper case to defend. I will assume this is the case.
faster is better wrote:
wow, like... wrote:My bet is more men ran ultras last year than women ran steeple.
"Ultra" includes many different distances and terrains. Just like "track" includes many distances.
So is Kilian "better" than the winner of Comrades? What's his PB for a 100km road?
Good God you are stupid. So the best runner in the world is a better runner than the best triathlete. Got it. But the best triathlete in the world is the best triathlete too. Its one race. It doesn't matter if there are multiple disciplines. Guess you hate ultras and triathalons because they are not what you consider to be pure running and let your feelings cloud your thinking so I am happy to clear that up for you.
spade detector wrote:
do you climb? wrote:Look, there is a reason why Jornet is getting attention. It's because he does what he does well. Kilian Jornet is a world champion ski mountaineer. You could say he's pushing the limits of ski mountaineering. Bringing fast ski mountaineering/running to the highest mountains. If he only stayed with ski mountaineering, who would know about him?
If he only focused on running like Kouros (how many know about him?) or only focused on climbing 8000m peaks like Messner (do you know off hand the names of other guys who completed all the peaks) he wouldn't be talked about.
Messner. If you wanted to be more credible, you could have thrown out the name of a more relevant climber. Many people have climbed all 8000m peaks. Are they all household names? No. Messner just got there first and he deserves credit for that. There have been many climbers who are better than Messner. Even he used fixed ropes for some of the 8000m peaks. If Jornet wanted and if he was more suicidal/irresponsible (Jornet already lost a climbing partner. Messner lost toes and a brother), he could easily climb all 14 without bottled oxygen. He has the capability. Messner isn't the same athlete that Jornet is. Messner couldn't do what Jornet is doing.
What would climbing all 8000m peaks do for Jornet? Nothing. Who knows the name of the other guy who climbed them without bottled oxygen? Basically nobody. It would take years (you can only climb max two or three a year), and tons of money basically and it would get him nothing.
Even guys who are basically the best at real technical mountain climbing fast and in good style like Ueli Steck (whose ambition is to climb hard technical routes fast) don't get as much attention as Jornet is getting. Ueli Steck has said can you imagine what I would do if I had the physique of Kilian.
Now you are using popularity as a measure of how impressive someone is? That's really grasping at straws.
I understand he's the best at what he does, but that what he does is a combination of disciplines instead of a pure discipline. Similarly, the best runner in the world, the best swimmer in the world, the best cyclist in the world, are all more impressive than the best triathlete in the world, who has to combine disciplines.
VO2 max means NOTHING at marathon distances or above. I find it hilarious that nearly everyone on here talks about the benefit of running high mileage and how it benefits speed without doing speed work. Killian is probably one of the consistently highest mileage people on the planet and people still don't think he can run a 5 minute mile? That's ridiculous.
Captain Oblivious wrote:
If it meant less and less as the distances increased you would see lower numbers from the best ultra guys but you don't.
What you do see is all runners who expect to excel having high numbers.
Doesn't mean you don't add to that with great economy and a high lactate threshold.
You need it all.
Nobody said a high number means you will excel at the marathon if your body is that of a skier cyclist or swimmer.
All of those athletes have high numbers though.
[quote]like, wow... wrote:
VO2 max means NOTHING at marathon distances or above. I find it hilarious that nearly everyone on here talks about the benefit of running high mileage and how it benefits speed without doing speed work. Killian is probably one of the consistently highest mileage people on the planet and people still don't think he can run a 5 minute mile? That's ridiculous.
[quote]
Except Kilian has a high number of course. If it meant nothing you would see the guys with a 45 gliding along, but you don't.
Maybe you don't operate at max V02 in a long race but it doesn't mean it isn't easier to operate at a fraction of a higher potential.
Your reading comprehension is failing you. I didn't say that the best runner in the world is a better runner than the best triathlete - that's a given - I said he is a more impressive athlete. So is the best swimmer. So is the best cyclist. The triathlete, or the half alpinist/half jogger, is combining different disciplines to be the best, which isn't as impressive. Do you think the world record holder for the 400m while juggling is as impressive an athlete as Michael Johnson?
like, wow... wrote:
Good God you are stupid. So the best runner in the world is a better runner than the best triathlete. Got it. But the best triathlete in the world is the best triathlete too. Its one race. It doesn't matter if there are multiple disciplines. Guess you hate ultras and triathalons because they are not what you consider to be pure running and let your feelings cloud your thinking so I am happy to clear that up for you.
spade detector wrote:Now you are using popularity as a measure of how impressive someone is? That's really grasping at straws.
I understand he's the best at what he does, but that what he does is a combination of disciplines instead of a pure discipline. Similarly, the best runner in the world, the best swimmer in the world, the best cyclist in the world, are all more impressive than the best triathlete in the world, who has to combine disciplines.
like, wow... wrote:
VO2 max means NOTHING at marathon distances or above. I find it hilarious that nearly everyone on here talks about the benefit of running high mileage and how it benefits speed without doing speed work. Killian is probably one of the consistently highest mileage people on the planet and people still don't think he can run a 5 minute mile? That's ridiculous.
What's ridiculous is that there is not one shred of evidence that Kilian can run or has run a five minute mile. Dude would get gang chicked at Foot Locker.
like, wow... wrote:
VO2 max means NOTHING at marathon distances or above.
Nor at any other distance.
On your right wrote:
Dude would get gang chicked at Foot Locker.
Where do I sign up for this? Sounds incredible.
lfk wrote:
On your right wrote:Dude would get gang chicked at Foot Locker.
Where do I sign up for this? Sounds incredible.
this seems to be a logical point for this thread to end.
just wanted to stop by and say how great a job you guys are doing on this board. keep it up. Comparing apples to oranges and getting all emotional and angry about it is the purest form of trolling.
If you don't like track it's fine, if you don't like ultras it's fine. You will never agree, so just respect the athletes and don't try to ridiculously diminish their performances in their respective fields.
If you can't compare, maybe you don't have to try too hard...
now go out and run
francois wrote:
just wanted to stop by and say how great a job you guys are doing on this board. keep it up. Comparing apples to oranges and getting all emotional and angry about it is the purest form of trolling.
If you don't like track it's fine, if you don't like ultras it's fine. You will never agree, so just respect the athletes and don't try to ridiculously diminish their performances in their respective fields.
If you can't compare, maybe you don't have to try too hard...
now go out and run
Or jog, if you're an ultra nerd.
winnnnnie wrote:
francois wrote:just wanted to stop by and say how great a job you guys are doing on this board. keep it up. Comparing apples to oranges and getting all emotional and angry about it is the purest form of trolling.
If you don't like track it's fine, if you don't like ultras it's fine. You will never agree, so just respect the athletes and don't try to ridiculously diminish their performances in their respective fields.
If you can't compare, maybe you don't have to try too hard...
now go out and run
Or jog, if you're an ultra nerd.
Or walk, if you're doing HR.
Or stand in place very still if you believe that V02 max doesn't matter.
You need to get a copy of ultra trail running magazine, its expensive, but it gives race results for races throughout the country. Look at the results and tell me that there aren't that many people doing. My bet is more men ran ultras last year than women ran steeple.
Trust me, there aren't that many people doing it. And how many East Africans were in these races? How many competitors were in their physical prime? A sport that is full of a bunch of old white men that are well past their prime is not a very competitive sport.
On your right wrote:
winnnnnie wrote:Or jog, if you're an ultra nerd.
Or walk, if you're doing HR.
or die on the 11th km if you are a track runner...
you should start seeing a pattern in this discussion. "my church is better than your mosque", "my city is better than your city" sort of pattern. Of course you would stick with what you know/believe in, but please just prove me wrong, runners are all open-minded, curious people wanting to take the best in each other.
just swap "kilian" and "emma" in the initial question with "NYC" and "SF" and you'll have the same kind of silly discussion...
like, wow... wrote:
Why do you bring up something totally unrelated. I mean, people usually do this when they don't have a proper case to defend. I will assume this is the case.
It is not "totally unrelated." There is no evidence that Kilian is the best "ultrarunner." There are ultra runners who excel in other distances and on other terrains. He is the best in a small subset of ultrarunners. Just like "steeplechasers" are a small subset of track runners.
So you cannot compare the number of "ultrarunners" and "steeplechasers."