hahahaha shut up you clown
hahahaha shut up you clown
Balco (really original)
your thoughts/generalization on the drug use is greatly warped and may even be founded but you don't drag athletes into labeling unless you have substance to back it up. Do you?
calirunner
the runners that I speak off:
Hillary Chenonge (I've been preaching about him for 2 yrs)
Moses Mosop
Augustine Choge
and there is one more but I can't remember right off hand. I don't right this stuff down but will elaborate later.
Vipam
Remember how much better Bekele is than Geb was at that age. Much better. Also remember the second 5K of 1257. Also, remember the 1249 indoors. He will break the 10K WR. He will break the 5K. The only record that is reasonably safe, and i do mean reasonably is the 3K. 720 is sick.
I don't care what Geb closes in. That doesn't have to do with WR's. Winning races yes, WR's nope. Geb has also acknowledged the fact that Keni is his predesessor. Geb had his time. He will never return to his old dominance. He may win every now and again. But things are much more difficult than they were five to seven years ago when Geb had his day. The world has never seen the physiological gifts of the guys these days. Never. Any idea how 18 year olds run 2715 from Uganda. Bekele is still 21. TWENTY ONE. He has at the least 5-7 years to improve. If you think he wont improve 10 sec. on his indoor 5K for an outdoor 5K, you are a crank baby
[quote]Lion is a Fox wrote:
Remember how much better Bekele is than Geb was at that age. Much better. Also remember the second 5K of 1257. Also, remember the 1249 indoors. He will break the 10K WR. He will break the 5K. The only record that is reasonably safe, and i do mean reasonably is the 3K. 720 is sick.
I don't care what Geb closes in. That doesn't have to do with WR's. Winning races yes, WR's nope. Geb has also acknowledged the fact that Keni is his predesessor. Geb had his time. He will never return to his old dominance.
Lion is a Fox
then what do you call his 26:29 in Bruxxells last year and the fact that he dominiated everyone in the 10000m except Kenenisa Bekele. Yes Kenenisa has shown he is better than Haile; however, has the rest of the world? REMEMBER this
as of right now Haile is SLATED to win Olympic Gold and Kenenisa silver (Bekele could win Gold but won't unless things change before the Olympics). Haile last two perfomrances of 2003 showed he is the Haile of old its just that a few more athletes have raised their performances considerly to nearly match and one to exceed Haile.
Vipam
"Cyclist boasts of duping dope-testers
French rider boasts of one positive test in ten years of drug taking
William Fotheringham
Tuesday March 16, 2004
The Guardian
Philippe Gaumont
 Advances in drugs testing are meaningless because cyclists and their trainers have devised methods that are guaranteed to evade the controls, according to the French rider Philippe Gaumont.
Gaumont, a team time-trial bronze medallist in the 1992 Olympics, is heavily implicated in a police inquiry centred on drug-taking in the Cofidis team, and yesterday he told the French newspaper Le Monde that he had taken drugs in all his 10 years in the sport but had tested positive only once.
He confirmed suspicions that among top cyclists blood trans fusions to maintain the red-cell count have taken over from use of the red-cell booster erythropoietin, because a test introduced in 2000 means EPO can be detected within three days of its injection. EPO, he says, is used only when a cyclist knows he will not be tested.
"The haematocrit [blood-thickness count which includes red cells] of a cyclist coming to the Tour after a course of EPO can drop from 50% to 44 or 45 after a week," he explained. "With one bag of blood a week, a cyclist can keep it at 50, while the other guys finish the Tour at 40%. But only the big names can use this, because you have to pay a doctor to do the transfusions."
Gaumont also maintains that the practice of obtaining false prescriptions to permit the use of banned corticosteroids is continuing.
"The team doctor sends you to an allergy specialist, he diagnoses that you are sensitive to mites and prescribes a nasal spray. We were told to ask for Nasacort, at all costs. Why? Because it means you can use cortisone. At the control they can't tell the difference between the spray and an injection.
"Then the doctor sends you to a dermatologist. You scratch your testicles with salt, show the doctor they're all red, and he prescribes you six months' worth of Diprosone cream. Then you can inject Diprostene [a banned liquid suspension] without risking being positive."
The issue of cortisone on prescription caused a furore after last year's Tour de France, when World Anti-Doping Agency observers questioned the fact that corticosteroids were found in 46 urine samples but, on medical grounds, the tests were not deemed to be positive.
Gaumont, recently found to have traces of cocaine in hair samples, has been sacked and is not expected to race again. He is one of four Cofidis team members under investigation. The team are led by Britain's David Millar. "
Yup, I love a good conspiracy. Also enjoy people defending things to the hilt that they have little knowledge about. Next topic on letsrun.com : "Drugs: can it be true that people are taking them? - Vipam" !!!
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Balco
I'm not denying that you aren't smart or knowledgeable about the subject matter; however, you have no undfalliable proof of certain INDIVIDUALS taking drugs. If have proof of the individuals competing now with no drug convinction then display such information or go to proper authorities in the neccessary federations.
Vipam
[quote]Balco wrote:
Gaumont, recently found to have traces of cocaine in hair samples, has been sacked and is not expected to race again. He is one of four Cofidis team members under investigation. The team are led by Britain's David Millar. "
Yup, I love a good conspiracy. Also enjoy people defending things to the hilt that they have little knowledge about. Next topic on letsrun.com : "Drugs: can it be true that people are taking them? - Vipam" !!!
[/quote
He's a Coke head eh? that just sums him up doesnt it Balco
he's just a druggie. Do you think Geb and Bekele will be snorting coke when they retire?
I used to write for the same magazine as William Fotheringham, Cycling Weekly. It should be called Cycling Strongly, but that's another story. Believe it or not, not all Professional Cyclists are druggies. Not all of them will die before they are 30 like Fotheringham greatest hero.
Im glad you agreed. Bekele is the best in the world. No question. The best ever? Nope, that distinction still belongs to Haile. However, Bekele is ready and waiting. Bekele has the advantage of all the experiences that Haile went through. Im not ready to crown the new king of distance running but I am having a difficult time imagining how good Bekele can be.
he can and will DESTROY the world records soon from 3000m to 10000m on the track and led the other young runners (I mentioned) under those barriers too. Kenenisa will get some stiff challenges from time to time from some of todays top athletes but nothing like the challenges from those juniors in a few years.
Vipam
Fortunately this "sad life", as you so presumptiously put it, is not completely held together by World Records, fast Africans, or drugged up athletes. Realistically, my life will not skip a beat if new world records are set or if the Yankees win another championship. However, given the state of track and field, one that is littered with numerous drug scandals (if you want me cite specific examples I will), it is perhaps naive to think that a clean athlete can out perform a drugged up athlete. It's possible, but an educated critic will have a tough time believing it based upon previous drug confirmations. But then again, the world needs dreamers. I envy a mind like yours that can still appreciate elite record breaking performances with the absence of skepticism. Boulami's 7:57 steeple is a WR as well, i wish i could trick myself into thinking that was legit. Based upon your present mental state i wouldn't be surprised if you have already invested all your money into cold fusion, healing magnets, and Vitamin O. Keep dreaming kiddo
But Geb and Bekele, come on, even an educated cynic can't think that they are druggies unless you really have lost all faith in human nature?
Too much cynicism is definately NOT realism.
johnny o i don't think the cynic will hear you.
Here are the four athletes I mentioned that will have more success challenging Kenenisa Bekele than even the outstanding runners who faced him in 2003. The junior who I think can in a few years that will be able to match even the outstanding performances Kenenisa has yet to display. I say this because I have an educated idea about how far lower Kenenisa will lower the World Records in the 3000m, 5000m, and 10000m and feel this 4 juniors will also be capable if they remain in the sport and healthy for the next 2-4 years.
1)Moses Mosop (Kenya) 17 July 1985
5000m..........13:11.75-(2003)
10000m.........27:13.66-(2003)WYB18
placed 7th in Jr World X-Championship in 2003, Moses have more strength than speed so 10000m will be his best distance
2)Augustine Choge (Kenya) 21 January 1987
800m...........1:49.7h-(2003)
1500m..........3:37.48-(2003)
5000m.........13:20.08-(2003)
10000m........29:06.5h-(2002)
ran his 10000m pb at age 15 at altitude. He just recently turned 17 this year.
3)Hillary Chenonge (Ken) 30 May 1985
Mile............3:53.29-(2003)
3000m...........7:39.22-(2002)WYR17
5000m..........13:06.47-(2002)WYR17
injuried much of 2003; however, he is gained experience in winning the 2002 World Junior 5000m title at 17 and running on the European circuit. If healthy he could surpass Daniel Komens great performance by 20. I been preaching about Hillary for 2 years and think 2004 will be a great start to track super elite for him.
4)Samwel Mwera (Tanzania) 3 June 1985
800m.............1:45.94-(2003)Age 17
1000m............2:17.85-(2003)
1500m............3:36.40-(2003)
2000m............5:00.64-(2003)
5000m...........13:54.85-(2002)age 16 debut at 5000m
holds 800m, 1000m, 1500m, NJR and won bronze at 1500m at 2002 World Junior Championships. I feel in the next 2-3 years he will move up to the 1500m/5000m to challenge Kenenisa and company for bigger paydays and have some success.
These are the junior who I think will give Kenenisa more trouble than Eluid Kipchoge, Abraham Chebii, Saif Shaheen, and Hicham El Guerrouj did in 2003 and will do in 2004. In 2005 it will be Kenenisa Bekele and these juniors against the prementioned athletes.
Vipam
Samwel ran an impressive double at some meet called Telstra last week running and winning the 800m 1:46.23 and 1500m 3:42.62 for 4th place in the same day. He would be very valuable in a NCAA meet for any collegiate team.
Kelly
Kenenisa is great at the moment and an amazing cross coutry runner but is not a total package as Haile once was. I lost all the respect for him after hearing his request to his coaches Haile to be his rabbit in the 5000m at the 2003 World championships and thank God Haile refused. If Kenenisa is so powerful on track as he is in the cross country, he should win it alone and does not need Haile's help. Kenenisa will never replace Haile (jmo).
Vipam,
save for the TAnzanian whose record I didn't have, I agree with you on CHoge, Chenonge and Mosop. I particularly regard Chenonge as the next big thing in the league of Bekele.
I concur that they'll make it to next year's (2005) world championships.
broomfieldrunner
Thanks thats a good point and only strengthens Bekele's case as a truly great distance runner. How many athletes would attempt a double after a historic negative spilt 10000m and come back and ask for a rabbit in the 5000m to construct a horrific pace (Bekele wanted the 5000m final at least 12:45). He didn't not secure his rabbit but at the age of 21 after that amazing 10000m he went for it in the 5000m in his first track Championship and garnered a Gold (10000) and Bronze (5000). Now tell me how many men have ever ran sub 27 minutes 10000m and sub 13 minutes 5000m in the same Championships-only one KENENISA BEKELE!
So what will a more mature and stronger Bekele do when he attempt another double on the track?
Vipam
Native Son
thats if he can stay healthy and in the sport. This guy is definitely one of Kenya's best prodigies ever and will be able to handle the great Bekele. This should be the next big rivilary (Kenenisa vs. Hillary) but Chenonoge needs to stay healthy to do that. The other three juniors are impressive but Samwel impresses me greatly as well I wouldn't be surprised if he busts 1:43.5-1:44.3 and around 3:32.9-3:33.6 this year but his move up is inevitable in around 2005 or 2006. Samwel will be the next Venuste N.
Vipam
broomfieldrunner wrote:
..... I lost all the respect for him after hearing his request to his coaches Haile to be his rabbit in the 5000m at the 2003 World championships and thank God Haile refused. If Kenenisa is so powerful on track as he is in the cross country, he should win it alone and does not need Haile's help. Kenenisa will never replace Haile (jmo).
broomfieldrunner,
First, I am not sure if the quote above is credible. But for argument sake let's say that is true. By asking Haile to be his pacesetter, KB is taking big risk to much Haile's blazing speed and endurance in front of public. You see the down side of that request is what if Haile kept the pace so fast that KB failed to much it. That would be a big risk for KB than Haile.
Maybe you are offended that KB didn't show respect to the person of Haile?s magnitude. But by guiding the young KB to greatness, even at the expense of his own record, Haile would further show the world his true identity: super athlete, courage, leadership as well as sacrifice. True leaders give themselves for the one they love. Haile, as he pursues to capture political office at the highest level, he needs to test his desire to lead by giving his own personal best to others.
As KB continues the amazing ride of setting new world records currently held by his mentor and compatriot Haile, it would be real interesting to see where the next adventure in distance running would go.
A very interest article appeared on the runnersworld site Wednesday stating the Kenyans need to forget about Kenenisa at least in X-Country. The Kenyans needs to focus on his more beatable countrymen and secure the team gold which is their strong suit and surrender the gold to Kenenisa for at least a couple more years. The quote was given by the head of african affairs at IAAF who is in charge of getting africans exposure in the western hemisphere. Why would an IAAF (Kenyan expert) offical make such a statement?
Pat