JEH wrote:
Likewise! I've seen you on the "women, what have you done this week" threads (BUT I DO NOT READ THEM), but decided to not post on those.
why don't you post? I won't tell anyone you aren't a woman.....
..........are you?
JEH wrote:
Likewise! I've seen you on the "women, what have you done this week" threads (BUT I DO NOT READ THEM), but decided to not post on those.
why don't you post? I won't tell anyone you aren't a woman.....
..........are you?
Jizzmo wrote:
...Till then don't be surprised that minor sports get cut.
Heck, we even call XC & Track "non-revenue" sports! That's NOT a good thing to have on your resume. Not a great way to justify your existance.
You refered to us as "minor". Get a grip with your own words.
my post is to show you that more women are getting track and cc scholarships than men yet there are more high school boys doing track and cc than girls
Muskingum wrote:
You refered to us as "minor". Get a grip with your own words.
I'm not following what your criticism is? T&F is not a major sport, it is a minor sport. Is that even part of the debate?
go bob cat wrote:
my post is to show you that more women are getting track and cc scholarships than men yet there are more high school boys doing track and cc than girls
it is basically irrelevant. You making some statement as to the pool of boys is bigger - so colleges should adjust. If you want to look at college enrollment, 65 % of college students are female - so 65% of all resources that are gender based should go to females.
More boys play football than run cross country, so football should have the most scholarships. (using your logic) Actually soccer has surpassed cross country and track and field also.
If you want to read facts about inequality, read below.
Q. How much does the average Division I-A institution spend on its athletics programs for each gender?
A. The average Division I-A institution spends $10,900,000 on all its men’s teams, $4,600,000 on all its women’s teams and $7,700,000 on expenses that benefit both genders.
(Source: 2001 NCAA Revenues and Expenses of Divisions I and II Intercollegiate Athletics Programs)
Q. How much does the average Division I-AAA (no football) institution spend on its athletics programs for each gender?
A. The average Division I-AAA (no football) institution spends $2,130,000 on all its men’s teams, $1,940,000 on all its women’s teams and $$1,420,000 on expenses that benefit both genders.
(Source: 2001 NCAA Revenues and Expenses of Divisions I and II Intercollegiate Athletics Programs)
for those of you who still believe that MAC schools make money on football:
only 35% of schools make money on football, and I'll bet there is not a MAC school in that bunch!
Revenue
Q. How many NCAA institutions show a profit in their athletics program in Division I-A?
A. The number of institutions where revenue exceeds expenses in Division I-A is 40, or 35 percent of institutions in that classification. This calculation does not include institutional support and does include fund-raising done by the athletics department, ticket sales, funds from student fees to support athletics, bowl games, royalties and the NCAA revenue distribution.
(Source: 2001 NCAA Revenues and Expenses of Divisions I and II Intercollegiate Athletics Programs)
Ah, that is certainly up for debate! I think a person could find examples from any given day to make a good case that I am either gender.
However, let me tell you that just today (see link below), a very fine fellow offered to give me some extra length (with some extra IQ points as a bonus) merely in exchange for some cartilage! I am VERY excited about this, and look forward to his reply.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1773453
Regardless of whatever my gender may be, my training has not been up to female snuff for a while. So, I should not disgrace those threads. But thank you for the invite.
Back to the topic on this thread, I can't believe after all this time I have changed my view of it just a touch. Instead of leaning against Title IX, I am now thinking that I am not pleased with how it's written as I am for equal resources (overall). HOWEVER, as a parent, I do have a shot for one of the kids to gain benefit, so maybe I could talk myself into disliking Title IX... at least for a little bit (smile)... but all that is still a ways off.
My last post to 16X
This is about dropping Men's Track & Field...
However you throw up comments without any facts... 16x said "Actually soccer has surpassed cross country and track and field also." NOT in OHIO or in the USA at the high school level..check the FACTS boys track & field is like number 2 or 3...in the number of schools and participants in both Ohio and the USA...
Again, we are not here to cut on women sports...THis tread is about Saving OU Men's Track and Field and Men's Track and field in the MAC
Stan Huntsman's Article in Athens News (2-27-07)
There are also minimums for scholarships
To be a division one football team you need a minimum number of scholarships amoung other things though I have forgotten the particular scholarship number to be division one football.
Im sure it is like that for some other sports too
go bob cat wrote:
My last post to 16X
This is about dropping Men's Track & Field...
However you throw up comments without any facts... 16x said "Actually soccer has surpassed cross country and track and field also." NOT in OHIO or in the USA at the high school level..check the FACTS boys track & field is like number 2 or 3...in the number of schools and participants in both Ohio and the USA...
Again, we are not here to cut on women sports...THis tread is about Saving OU Men's Track and Field and Men's Track and field in the MAC
I never say anything without a fact - now my facts might be wrong - but if you read my stuff, I don't "just say stuff" for the hell of it.
national I just read that soccer has surpassed track and field....but maybe you have some different information.
I am all about saving track and field, male, female, bisexual, all of it. I would never want to run on a womans' team and not see my male counterparts out there working it like everyone else. I have done what I could for the fight, but please, don't start telling me that all is fair and equal when it comes to male and female sports, and please don't give me "the females get more than males story" cause that sinking line of BS.
but yes, we are on the same page brother. I am all for men's track. Just was down in Athens today. Even my doctor was upset about it. Athens is a great place to run and would be terrible to fall on the same fate as my alma mater BGSU.
peace out.
JEH - would like to hear what is going on with you! you gots my e-mail?
I guess the Men's side of T&F can see what kind of support we can rely on from across the isle.
When it comes to scholarship money it's every man (or woman) for his/her self.
Wrong Again... Please don't make me find the facts for you anymore...
The NFHS Participation Figures Search survey provides a year-by-year history of boys and girls high school participation figures contained in the High School Athletics Participation Survey conducted by the National Federation of State High School Associations.
2005-06 National facts
TEN MOST POPULAR BOYS PROGRAMS
Number of Schools
1. Basketball 17,535
2. Track and Field - Outdoor 15,497
3. Baseball 15,290
4. Football - 11-player 13,727
5. Golf 13,267
6. Cross Country 13,110
7. Soccer 10,580
8. Wrestling 9,744
9. Tennis 9,706
10. Swimming and Diving 6,224
Number of Participants
1. Football - 11-player 1,071,775
2. Basketball 546,335
3. Track and Field - Outdoor 533,985
4. Baseball 470,671
5. Soccer 358,935
6. Wrestling 251,534
7. Cross Country 208,303
8. Golf 161,284
9. Tennis 153,006
10. Swimming and Diving 107,468
TEN MOST POPULAR GIRLS PROGRAMS
Number of Schools
1. Basketball 17,275
2. Track and Field - Outdoor 15,417
3. Softball - Fast Pitch 14,710
4. Volleyball 14,578
5. Cross Country 12,989
6. Soccer 9,970
7. Tennis 9,816
8. Golf 8,816
9. Swimming and Diving 6,559
10. Competitive Spirit Squads 3,914
Numbr of Participants
1. Basketball 452,929
2. Track and Field - Outdoor 439,200
3. Volleyball 390,034
4. Softball - Fast Pitch 369,094
5. Soccer 321,555
6. Cross Country 175,954
7. Tennis 173,753
8. Swimming and Diving 147,413
9. Competitive Spirit Squads 98,570
10. Golf 64,195
go bob cat wrote:
Again, we are not here to cut on women sports...THis tread is about Saving OU Men's Track and Field and Men's Track and field in the MAC
i thought this thread was about "the story behind the axe." also, i thought there were two (or more) other threads specifically about saving the program, and this one was intended to be about how it was lost (although everyone seems to be willing to discuss how to save the program here too).
anyway, if you want to talk about how to save the program, can we go back to my last question: does anybody know how to get running magazines to pick up the story?
Actually, no did not. my e-mail is
. If curious about my project, I have written some stuff about it at the other place (which you prob no longer can get to, but we can fix that).
Peace out (ha.. funny)
I would suggest to contact them. Or get someone like Stan Huntsman who has a name in T&F to contact them and give them a story.
For the former Head Olympic T&F coach to send back his OU degree and ask for his plaque to be taken down from the OU Hall of Fame could make for a great story.
thank you for the stats bob cat.
The best way to change anything is through legislation and policy at the governing level. I just think that letter writing and newspaper articles are effective for a short period of time and then gone.
The letter writing might have been more effective if it had been done to the Prez of the University instead of the AD.
Oh, and just a thought, you guys might consider giving up watching football on TV and attending. That means pro too. If ratings dwindle, advertising revenue dwindles, football dwindles. I know, it's gonna require a ton of discipline on your part!
From
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com
By oubobcat33
Track & Field Supporters,
This is an update on the status of Ohio U. Men's Track Program
The coaches and I met with the Athletic Director on Tuesday (2/20).
During that meeting we proposed the following plan:
1. Eliminate Indoor Track
2. Keep the Outdoor track team with a smaller roster of athletes (35)
3. Raise an endowment that would fund the operating budget for the outdoor season.
We asked the AD to give us an answer soon on our proposal. He said that he would think about it and discuss it this week and get back to Coach Calkins when the team returns from the MAC Meet first thing next week.
If he agrees to let us attempt to raise the necessary amount for an endowment, we will have to move very quickly and aggressively to reach the level of funding we would need by the time we would need to raise it by. We assume that our deadline would be around the end of the school year/end of June - so that all the athletes would know what is going on for the next year.
The level of funding we need to raise we estimate to be $300,000. This amount would endow the team permanently with a payout each year of $12,000 for the team operating budget. This amount would grow progressively as time goes on because a portion of the interest will be reinvested in the principal to grow the base.
We can add our fundraising efforts for the team onto the proceeds already raised with the Elmore Banton Endowment Fund 3 years ago. This will slightly ease the level of fundraising that we need to achieve. We currently have just over $15,000 in the Banton Fund.
For our fundraising efforts we will first be sending out a mailing to all Ohio Track & Field/Cross-Country alumni asking them to send in a pledge amount for a donation to the fund.
We are not going to have anyone send in their actual donations until we reached the level of pledges that exceeds the goal set by the Athletic Dept. to fund the team. We didn't want to have to send refunds out if we don't reach our goal. That way your money will only be used for the track team and nothing else.
We plan to have the current track team members call all alumni asking for pledges. I would also ask you and everyone we can reach to contact your teammates from when you were here and ask them to give. It is one thing to be asked by someone that you don't know for money, it helps if you are asked by someone that you know.
My personal goal is to call everyone that I was a teammate with (86-90), or coached in my two years as grad assistant (90-92) and ask them to help out. I would ask you to do the same to everyone that you ran with on the team when you were at OU.
We will be asking all the Coaches (Banton, Huntsman, etc..) to help in this effort and reach out to the athletes that they coached and ask them to give as well.
One thing you should ask your employers is whether they MATCH donations. Many companies will match donations and this kind of thing can help us reach our goals. The donations are going to the Ohio U Foundation, and are tax deductible.
We also need to reach outside our circle of alumni if we are going to be successful in this effort. Any individuals or organizations that have an interest in seeing Track (in general) survive are encouraged to help! Please get us their contact information, or ask them yourselves if you know them. Think of any foundations that might support sports and reach out to them or send us their contact info.
I am pledging the first $1,000 donation to help kick off this campaign to save our team. We cannot let the oldest sport on the planet disappear from our alma mater.
I am confident we will be successful in this effort, if the Athletic Dept. allows us to try.
We will send out an update as soon as we have word from the Athletic Dept. next week. In the meantime, keep the current team in your hearts and minds as they compete in what is the last Indoor MAC Championships ever for the Men's team this weekend.
Go Bobcats!
Robert Walter, '90, '92
Robert, Thanks for your help...keep us informed...
JEH wrote:
Dudes, you shouldn't out people... don't even make guesses. There's a reason they use handles. If someone wanted to use their name, there's a good chance that it hasn't already been registered.
As for the arguments, it's been nice to follow. I wholeheartedly agree and support with 16x's "equal resource" argument. However, Title IX isn't currently written adequately to accomplish this as it only pertains to athletics.
Nonsense, Title IX is about all educational opportunities not just athletics.
"No person in the United States shall on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subject to discrimination under any educational program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."
Quotas on the number of women allowed to be admitted to Medical & Law schools no longer apply as a result of Title IX for example.
Maybe I'm misinformed. I am not an expert in Title IX, but soon plan to know quite a bit about it.
I thought that Title IX forces schools to have the same number of scholoarships for men and women. And, because football has like 80 (or whatever), it results in the girls getting a lot of scholarships across several of the sports. BUT, when schools feel a financial pinch, they don't want to cut football, so they end up cutting smaller guys sports to reduce the number of scholarships/resources allocated to the sports. Is that not how Title IX affects collegiate athletics? If you could elaborate on the wider implications of it (like you started with the Med school thing, but I am having a hard time grasping it fully), I would really appreciate it.