Are there good data sources on this? I looked it up out of curiosity, and the best data I could find is the linked table from the college board, which indicates that a 1520 is in the 98 percentile among students who take the SAT and in the 99+ percentile among a 'nationally representative' selection of students (who may or may not take the SAT). I couldn't find the raw data or study methodology, but given that the cutoff for the 99 percentile in this table is a 1450, it's plausible to me that a 1520 is at least very close to the 99.9 percentile according to college board's internal analysis.
I fit the linked data to an erf profile (CDF for a normal distribution*) and get a mean score of 1016 with a standard deviation of just over 200. That suggests 1520 is around the 99.4% percentile (which agrees with a non-verifiable source that claimed 99+ was 99.5), and 1590 is the 99.9% percentile.
* Not a perfect model, as the score range is limited to 400 to 1600.
I see, thanks!
Given that 1520 is way closer to the max than min score, you'd also expect the median score at a school with a 1520 average to be decently higher (you need around 3 people scoring a 1600 to counteract 1 person getting a 1300, for example).
So if the reported 1520 average is correct and not purposely misleading, then the statement "over half of this school's students are in the top .1% as measured by performance on the SAT and the test's public data" is most likely a small exaggeration (really, the median student is probably in the top .3-.2%) and has at least a chance of being true.
I fit the linked data to an erf profile (CDF for a normal distribution*) and get a mean score of 1016 with a standard deviation of just over 200. That suggests 1520 is around the 99.4% percentile (which agrees with a non-verifiable source that claimed 99+ was 99.5), and 1590 is the 99.9% percentile.
* Not a perfect model, as the score range is limited to 400 to 1600.
I see, thanks!
Given that 1520 is way closer to the max than min score, you'd also expect the median score at a school with a 1520 average to be decently higher (you need around 3 people scoring a 1600 to counteract 1 person getting a 1300, for example).
So if the reported 1520 average is correct and not purposely misleading, then the statement "over half of this school's students are in the top .1% as measured by performance on the SAT and the test's public data" is most likely a small exaggeration (really, the median student is probably in the top .3-.2%) and has at least a chance of being true.
According to the school’s website:
To attend either the Davidson Academy Reno or Davidson Academy Online, students should score in the 99.9th percentile on accepted intelligence and/or achievement tests; perform at a required academic level; exhibit intellectual and academic achievement; demonstrate motivation, social and emotional maturity, and an overall readiness for a fast-paced educational environment.
This wording suggests that 99.9% percentile is a bottom floor of performance, which makes it surprising that half of their students that take the SAT score below the 99.4% percentile (with the caveat you noted that we’re dealing with fairly small number and median does not equal mean).
To attend either the Davidson Academy Reno or Davidson Academy Online, students should score in the 99.9th percentile on accepted intelligence and/or achievement tests; perform at a required academic level; exhibit intellectual and academic achievement; demonstrate motivation, social and emotional maturity, and an overall readiness for a fast-paced educational environment.
This wording suggests that 99.9% percentile is a bottom floor of performance, which makes it surprising that half of their students that take the SAT score below the 99.4% percentile (with the caveat you noted that we’re dealing with fairly small number and median does not equal mean).
From the tiny amount of related data I have seen (100% of which is contained within the last several posts on this thread), it still seems plausible to me that their acceptance criteria is literally "score in the top .1% on such and such standardized test."
This is for a similar reason to why you'd expect the median score to be noticeably higher than the mean scores for these students: the entrance exam would have some error bars in its predictive power, and since the requirements are achieving an essentially max score already the errors don't have any option but to be biased towards the students scoring worse on subsequent trials. In other words, if you take a random sample of students who get essentially perfect scores on an exam and give the exam again later, there's an extremely high probability that the students score statistically worse on the second trial. This is true even if the exam scores are relatively consistent across multiple trials for the average student and is completely compatible with what is claimed of these students.
To clarify, I am making no claims that these students are really in the 'top .1%' in some objective, non-gameable way that will carry over to later success in college or wider life. But it does seem like "Even more wrong"s claim that a 1520 is "nowhere near the 99.9%" and that there's "no chance this school only accepts students in the 99.9%" is closer to being wrong than right.
. If you accept that talent is uniformly distributed, and I think this is a very good assumption,
Why are there no white men in the NCAA 100m final? They make up a majority of the population, surely since talent is evenly distributed there must be come kind of systematic discrimination going on here.
I think to solve this, we should reserve five of the eight lanes for white men only, to approximately match their population proportion. Would you agree with me?
Most of us wish everything in life were like a foot race Mr. Ad Hominem. As close to a meritocracy as you can get. Very few things in life are. College admissions certainly is not. No soup.
According to the complaint, despite Stanley's academic credentials — a 3.97 unweighted GPA, a 1590 SAT score and significant achievements in computer science, including advancing to the Google Code Jam semifinals and winning second place in MIT Battlecode's global high school division — he was denied admission to Cornell and 15 other schools. The lawsuit highlights that shortly after these rejections, Stanley received a full-time job offer from Google for a position typically requiring a Ph.D. or equivalent experience. This offer was extended after a rigorous evaluation process, including assessments of his technical skills and teamwork abilities. In addition to his academic achievements, Stanley founded RabbitSign, an unlimited free e-signing service developed during the COVID-19 pandemic which he wrote about in his college essays. The platform was recognized by Amazon Web Services for its efficiency and security, leading to a feature in an upcoming case study by Amazon.
The lawsuit is supported by Students Who Oppose Racial Discrimination, an organization founded in October 2024 by the Zhongs to help themselves and any willing families to challenge what it alleges are racially discriminatory admissions policies in higher education. According to the SWORD website, numerous college admission counselors examined Stanley Zhong’s applications and essays after media outlets like CBS and USA Today began to cover his story. However, none of them were able to discern the cause for rejection, with some even offering to testify as expert witnesses.
Does anyone believe that the sole reason he was rejected wasn't his race (as well as gender)? It's blindingly obvious. If he was a black female he'd have been accepted everywhere he applied.
The quota for Asians was filled. That’s what you get with diversity admissions. So we can have C+ students get admitted instead of kids who excel in every subject in high school and worked their butts off to get perfect SAT scores and be well rounded as well. Sounds fair no??
According to the complaint, despite Stanley's academic credentials — a 3.97 unweighted GPA, a 1590 SAT score and significant achievements in computer science, including advancing to the Google Code Jam semifinals and winning second place in MIT Battlecode's global high school division — he was denied admission to Cornell and 15 other schools. The lawsuit highlights that shortly after these rejections, Stanley received a full-time job offer from Google for a position typically requiring a Ph.D. or equivalent experience. This offer was extended after a rigorous evaluation process, including assessments of his technical skills and teamwork abilities. In addition to his academic achievements, Stanley founded RabbitSign, an unlimited free e-signing service developed during the COVID-19 pandemic which he wrote about in his college essays. The platform was recognized by Amazon Web Services for its efficiency and security, leading to a feature in an upcoming case study by Amazon.
The lawsuit is supported by Students Who Oppose Racial Discrimination, an organization founded in October 2024 by the Zhongs to help themselves and any willing families to challenge what it alleges are racially discriminatory admissions policies in higher education. According to the SWORD website, numerous college admission counselors examined Stanley Zhong’s applications and essays after media outlets like CBS and USA Today began to cover his story. However, none of them were able to discern the cause for rejection, with some even offering to testify as expert witnesses.
Does anyone believe that the sole reason he was rejected wasn't his race (as well as gender)? It's blindingly obvious. If he was a black female he'd have been accepted everywhere he applied.
The quota for Asians was filled. That’s what you get with diversity admissions. So we can have C+ students get admitted instead of kids who excel in every subject in high school and worked their butts off to get perfect SAT scores and be well rounded as well. Sounds fair no??
What does your fantasy have to do with this thread topic?
According to the complaint, despite Stanley's academic credentials — a 3.97 unweighted GPA, a 1590 SAT score and significant achievements in computer science, including advancing to the Google Code Jam semifinals and winning second place in MIT Battlecode's global high school division — he was denied admission to Cornell and 15 other schools. The lawsuit highlights that shortly after these rejections, Stanley received a full-time job offer from Google for a position typically requiring a Ph.D. or equivalent experience. This offer was extended after a rigorous evaluation process, including assessments of his technical skills and teamwork abilities. In addition to his academic achievements, Stanley founded RabbitSign, an unlimited free e-signing service developed during the COVID-19 pandemic which he wrote about in his college essays. The platform was recognized by Amazon Web Services for its efficiency and security, leading to a feature in an upcoming case study by Amazon.
The lawsuit is supported by Students Who Oppose Racial Discrimination, an organization founded in October 2024 by the Zhongs to help themselves and any willing families to challenge what it alleges are racially discriminatory admissions policies in higher education. According to the SWORD website, numerous college admission counselors examined Stanley Zhong’s applications and essays after media outlets like CBS and USA Today began to cover his story. However, none of them were able to discern the cause for rejection, with some even offering to testify as expert witnesses.
Does anyone believe that the sole reason he was rejected wasn't his race (as well as gender)? It's blindingly obvious. If he was a black female he'd have been accepted everywhere he applied.
The quota for Asians was filled. That’s what you get with diversity admissions. So we can have C+ students get admitted instead of kids who excel in every subject in high school and worked their butts off to get perfect SAT scores and be well rounded as well. Sounds fair no??
Keep voting for Democrats and this is the garbage you will get...
Why are there no white men in the NCAA 100m final? They make up a majority of the population, surely since talent is evenly distributed there must be come kind of systematic discrimination going on here.
I think to solve this, we should reserve five of the eight lanes for white men only, to approximately match their population proportion. Would you agree with me?
Most of us wish everything in life were like a foot race Mr. Ad Hominem. As close to a meritocracy as you can get. Very few things in life are. College admissions certainly is not. No soup.
Ok, well I don't think you actually made the point you were trying to make. Your example of "as close to a meritocracy as you can get" yields a result almost entirely dominated by a single statistically lower-earning minority ethnic group. Just like school, running requires good nutrition, recovery, coaching, gear, and money for travel. Surely kids from 50k a year all white prep schools should be the best? They have all the advantages.
But they aren't, not even close. So why when another minority ethic group (asains) dominates the academic sphere, do you make every excuse in the book for the lower scoring students?