George Floyd / Chauvin trial starts monday

Not in my hood wrote:

runnerboy70 wrote:

They knew he was resisting arrest...

and was that simple fact ever mentioned in any of the initial news reports?

People can't see what the media doesn't want them to see!

I think it was fairly obvious that Floyd was resisting arrest. I'm pretty sure most people just assumed he was resisting arrest.

The main question is why did Chauvin continue to kneel on Floyd once he was in a position to arrest him? Why not then sit him up, handcuff him with the help of the other three officers, and then warn him that if he attempted to escape he would be shot or tasered?

They keep insisting that we don’t know all of the facts. They can’t comprehend that even knowing of Floyd’s criminal record, his drug levels, his unwillingness to get in the cop car, etc. that we would still be disgusted by Chauvin’s actions and find them reprehensible.

Borya wrote:

Not in my hood wrote:

and was that simple fact ever mentioned in any of the initial news reports?

People can't see what the media doesn't want them to see!

I think it was fairly obvious that Floyd was resisting arrest. I'm pretty sure most people just assumed he was resisting arrest.

The main question is why did Chauvin continue to kneel on Floyd once he was in a position to arrest him? Why not then sit him up, handcuff him with the help of the other three officers, and then warn him that if he attempted to escape he would be shot or tasered?

Hell know! Most people still don't know that just like they don't know about the drugs in his system. Those simple key facts have rarely made mainstream media broadcasts. Sorry!

The BLM protestors are going to loot/riot regardless of the outcome of the trial.

Time to join the preppers cause this crap is only going to get worse.

Borya wrote:

StevePrefonDead wrote:

Then you weren't paying attention.

It is normal not to speak ill of the dead. If you don't know this, you aren't paying attention.

Wait. You're not supposed to speak ill of the dead?

There were some understandable media pieces showing that Floyd had a family, and had friends who cared about him and said good things. But a lot of the media was just over the top - basically the media doing their own virtue-signaling to their readers. You would have thought some courageous civil rights leader like John Lewis had died. I just think it got absurd to the point where you now have a park named after a guy who bailed out on his five kids, and assaulted a pregnant woman to buy money for drugs. His death is a tragedy for his family and friends, but he was a pretty useless and dangerous person.

His crimes are in the past. No one said they weren't. I don't see any posts in this thread saying he deserved to die because of his past crimes. In the internet age, it's always possible to find some nutjob saying something nuts somewhere, but I think an extremely tiny minority of people say criminals should be killed by police as a justice measure. It's a liberal strawman argument to say otherwise. It's a strawman argument that fool Armstronglives would recite.

It's doubtful the police knew his past, since they didn't know who he was until they arrived. I'm not sure they ever found out his name, until later. They probably suspected he was drunk or high soon after meeting him because of his behavior, and the fact that the 911 caller said "he's sitting on his car cause he is awfully drunk and he's not in control of himself." So yeah, the police were probably adrenalized on arrival knowing they were going to be dealing with (yet another) drugged up idiot. But there is no way they could have known he had taken a lethal overdose of fentanyl. This wasn't a 911 emergency medical call. It was reporting a felony and subsequent out of control behavior.

I thought I read somewhere that DC and GF worked security at the same night club, but don't know if that is true or if they ever worked together? If they knew each other one would think one of them would have called the other by name at some point during the ordeal.

Not in my hood wrote:

I thought I read somewhere that DC and GF worked security at the same night club, but don't know if that is true or if they ever worked together? If they knew each other one would think one of them would have called the other by name at some point during the ordeal.

I remember they both worked at the same night club, but the manager said she didn't think, or wasn't sure if, they worked any shifts together.

That was the department's procedure dealing with someone in a state of excited delirium. The outcomes are typically bad no matter what intervention. The officers were giving Floyd a chance to live. "Excited (or agitated) delirium is characterized by agitation, aggression, acute distress and sudden death, often in the pre-hospital care setting. It is typically associated with the use of drugs that alter dopamine processing, hyperthermia, and, most notably, sometimes with death of the affected person in the custody of law enforcement. "https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3088378/ I can't find right now the paper I read last summer that remarks, no matter what outcome, it always appears to untrained eyes like the person giving aid is behaving with cruelty. Best to just set a perimeter and let them go cardiac, I guess.

Borya wrote:

Not in my hood wrote:

and was that simple fact ever mentioned in any of the initial news reports?

People can't see what the media doesn't want them to see!

I think it was fairly obvious that Floyd was resisting arrest. I'm pretty sure most people just assumed he was resisting arrest.

The main question is why did Chauvin continue to kneel on Floyd once he was in a position to arrest him? Why not then sit him up, handcuff him with the help of the other three officers, and then warn him that if he attempted to escape he would be shot or tasered?

Not in my hood wrote:

Borya wrote:

I think it was fairly obvious that Floyd was resisting arrest. I'm pretty sure most people just assumed he was resisting arrest.

The main question is why did Chauvin continue to kneel on Floyd once he was in a position to arrest him? Why not then sit him up, handcuff him with the help of the other three officers, and then warn him that if he attempted to escape he would be shot or tasered?

Hell know! Most people still don't know that just like they don't know about the drugs in his system. Those simple key facts have rarely made mainstream media broadcasts. Sorry!

Do you have any evidence for that?

So what do you think people think happened?

1) Chauvin simply attacked Floyd for no reason (he didn't try to arrest him or even notify him that he was a criminal suspect)

2) Floyd surrendered to the officers and followed their directions, but they decided to assault him instead

It's even worse if Floyd didn't resist arrest, but surely the main question is why continue kneeling on him for so long after he was clearly under control?

The evidence, as presented by the media, seems mixed. I just googled "floyd resisting arrest" and see the Daily Mail and Washington Times saying he resisted arrest and others saying he didn't resist arrest.

Borya wrote:

StevePrefonDead wrote:

Then you weren't paying attention.

It is normal not to speak ill of the dead. If you don't know this, you aren't paying attention.

There must be thousands of people who die every with fairly lengthy criminal records and lots of other personal failings (addictions, poor parent/spouse, etc.). Is it normal for the death to be an occasion for an "airing of grievances" (giving an honest summary of their life) or to remember them in their better moments? I don't see what is different here.

His family unsurprisingly said nice things about him.

Other people aren't going on about his failings because they don't see them as relevant. They don't agree with the radical anti-American idea that criminal suspects should be killed by police.

Thanks for the word vomit.

Let it Rupp wrote:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-george-floyd-death-what-media-didnt-tell-you

Good watch.

Great find! Everyone should be forced to watch this before forming an opinion.

Call me crazy but I wouldn't be surprised if demorat/liberal eliteists set the whole thing up.. Probably got some super fentanyl cooked up right in one of their labs along with a counterfeit bill and gave them to floyd and waited till he started to O.D. and called the police and started filming knowing he'd likely resist right before dying and it'd look like the police caused it.

Great editing to put this spin on it...hope they are proud of all the destruction they caused!!

the CNN version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqdxDKxfdK4

Your not wrong that portraying George Floyd like John Lewis was absurd. But I think it's only because his death was politicized.

1) I think some people thought his death would trigger a positive movement against police brutality, similar to the actions of civil rights protesters.

2) Others were pushing back against those who defended the police actions.

People definitely implied that his criminality was relevant and I was responding to that.

Also people were arguing over whether he was killed by drugs he took or the police. I don't think this is the only important question. It might have been the case that Floyd would have died of an overdose or did die of an overdose. But unless Chauvin knew Floyd would die regardless, then isn't it arguable that his action should be considered attempted murder?

The answer as to why he kept kneeling on his neck is simple, very simple.

Unless there was a supervisor on site and he/she told him to get off, he wasn't getting off his neck.

Why? Ego and nothing more. The man wasn't going anywhere even if he got up. He was surrounded and surely would have gotten tased.

When bystanders yelled to get off, the officer was NOT going to comply with some strangers on the street telling him what to because HE was in charge and HIS ego wasn't going to budge.

Other parts of it may be up for debate, but that is exactly why he wasn't getting off his neck, even knowing that he was being recorded...he didn't care. His EGO trumped everyone there unless a higher up had showed up and then the guy would have been alive.

Argue all you want, it was EGO that played the major role in the outcome.

Doesn't this argument apply equally the other way around? Someone who is being knelt on by police might have died of a drug overdose, but someone who has taken drugs might have died as a result of being knelt on by police.

I think you may have been disingenuous. Medical examiner Baker said that Floyd's toxicology report showed he had a "fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances" and that "if he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD."

An independent autopsy found his death was a "homicide caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain."

I'm not sure if these are the same report/autopsy, in which case it seems they acknowledged drugs but did not conclude they killed him. Otherwise it seems there are differing reports, in which case how do we know who and what we should believe?

"The author [Armstronglivs] wants to immediately turn attention away from the drug overdose issue and back to an issue he is comfortable with; Chauvin’s knee restraint."

"The author [Muldoon] wants to immediately turn attention away from the knee restraint issue and back to an issue he is comfortable with; the drug overdose."

How can we hope to find out the cause of death and whether the police response was appropriate?

Won't prosecutors and defenders each find experts to argue it was the knee/drugs that killed him and the knee restraints was unjustified/justified? How do we know which expert to believe if differing claims are presented?

Are there cases where someone was not harmed after having a knee on their neck for 8 minutes? Unless there are examples of the police using this restraint for so long against compliant suspects, I can't see how they can justify Chauvin's actions.

Borya - the question is not whether one can justify the officer's actions. At some point I think they were unlawful. The real question is whether the officer committed murder. With the amount of fentanyl in Floyd's system, a murder conviction will not be easy to obtain, particularly under the criminal standard of proof. This is the challenge the prosecutors have. They want a murder charge to satisfy the masses, but there is peril in overcharging. You can bet the defense's pharmacological expert is going to testify that the amount of fentanyl in Floyd's system would have killed anyone. Indeed, Floyd was complaining about not breathing before the police touched him (which of course supports the assertion the police should have acted better but it does not support a murder charge).

This will be a painful case - likely violence to ensue.