Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

? I am confused. The shorter interval should be at a faster pace, right ? You have it the other way around.

Yes apologies.

15 and 25 are wrong way round.

@Hard2find I know you probably say in jest you have good humour sense. But you and sirpoc would make good team I would listen to add my +1. One science one practical use. Perfect combo. Better I sure than 90% of pod trash out there.

I haven't got the hang of this training yet. In the past month I ran 17:5x and 36:4x. I've been doing mostly 3-5 minute reps at 6:00. Is this too fast and should I be aiming more for sub-threshold, like 6:10-6:15? I feel OK doing 6:00 pace... its not particularly easy but it's not massively hard either.

Maybe a bit quick. 6:00 pace would be OK for 2-minute reps, should perhaps be more like 6:05-6:10 pace for 3-5 minute reps. Better to err on the side of being slightly too slow and let the speed increase very gradually over the weeks/months.

There is a trainer of elite athletes who mainly uses 2 types of sessions, one with a 10x3' threshold and another with a 5x6' subthreshold. The threshold pace is 1 hour pace, and the subthreshold pace is 10" per km slower. If you use the Vdot calculator, your threshold pace is 6:10/mile.

There are some people who with the rhythms recommended in the Excel document have ended up overtraining and have burned out, it is better to go on the side of "safety" in the absence of a lactate meter and see how it goes as the weeks go by.

Interval rest times are partly wrong. E.g 10x3min, has 9x1min of rest (total 9min) in between.

The comparision with RSS is interesting.

The rest times aren't really wrong, lexel. The rest periods are uniform to demonstrate the different workouts numerically. We can always reduce the cool down interval to accommodate recovery from the last work interval. It will make a difference of less than 1 RSS....absolutely trivial.

But you should already be familiar with any workout builder like Trainerroad, Golden Cheetah, Garmin Connect, Coros etc...they all group repeats with the work and rest interval together (e.g. 10x3m with 1m rest between will be 10x (3m work +1m rest). I do the same.

What's your current mile time?

Just a quick calc with your 5k and 10k has you at around 4.4 m/s as threshold speed. A 6:00 min mile is about 4.5 m/s, which is a bit over threshold.

About 95% threshold would be 0.95*4.4 = 4.2 m/s = 6:24 min/mile.

I was going off the idea of threshold pace being 10 mile race pace which I've done in 59 minutes, so that's why I was doing the repeats at 6:00. But 6:10 would be a lot easier. Still not sure what to aim for.

To the other poster - I've never run a timed mile.

Thanks

I can only judge about what i read. You wrote 50%CP for the interval rest, instead of correctly 0%CP. Mathematics is a clear language.

I am still wondering that you guys have not realized that you can do more volume, e.g. 40min instead of 30min, at a slightly lower intensity, to get the same RSS. This is how you normally train.

Lexel, I was assuming a jogging recovery in my little calc, hence 50% of CP. That should have been clear. If I was assuming passive rest, it would be 0% CP. How you want to recover is your business and I was just demonstrating numbers. :)

I am in agreement with you about doing longer intervals at a lower % of threshold. Just go do 30-60 minute blocks of subthreshold work.

Same pace for 10K and 10 mile?

Did 7 sets of 3x1 at 7:55-8:15-ish and felt fine Tuesday. Was going to do 10x3x1 but was short on time due to errands.

Easy day yesterday, 9:40 pace but at a low 140 bpm.

Did 10 sets of 3x1 today but it was a struggle to even get below 8:00 even taking into account the sub-threshold has to be slower then regular threshold. Did I do the first set too fast? Most of the runs were 8:05-8:15 even for the 3-minute reps. Heat might have been a factor but it was only 80'F.

I run a 43:58 10k and 1:38 half, so my paces for this kind of training should be between 7:20-7:55, but the 3-minute reps should be theoretically faster...that said I don't want to burn out. But what should it actually feel like?

My race times are similar to you, and your selected pace for sub threshold, should be doable.

However, my pace at keeping it under 70% of max hr, is a lot slower than 9:40. I would slow your easy pace down.

I sometimes run as slow as 10:00-10:10 at times! I've been at 200-210 for HR in the 1/2 and still had a little to give. I try to keep my EZ pace around 135-145 HR.

I think “don’t want to burn out” is the smart thing to keep in mind and one of your most important things to consider. Other stuff:

1. “Heat might have been a factor” and “only 80F”? Only? I don’t know about temperature relative to your running Tuesday or how well you’re acclimated to the heat, but that’s definitely warm enough to affect running, especially workouts and races.

2. How many times have you done this? Maybe you’re just adjusting to the schedule of running sub-threshold 48 hour apart.

3. I’d worry less about single data points. Trends are more important.

That’s true for how you feel, paces, and HR. And, of course, lots of factors can affect HR. Because of cardiac drift, you can’t compare average HR across a 3-mile run with that for a 10-miler, and the same will go for shorter reps at a given pace than longer ones. Add in the efffect of sleep, nutrition, hydration, stress, etc., and there are many variables to consider. But if you note conditions, monitor it well, and make apples-to-apples comparisons, it can be useful.

For what it’s worth, I just did a 5x6min in bad heat (93 degrees) and the fatigue I felt towards the end of the run was new, and obviously everything was a lot slower, but I felt that it was much easier to feel when I was going too fast. Some food for thought.