Many people dream of running a sub 3. Some people cut courses to achieve their life’s dream. Others just lie about it.
Many people dream of running a sub 3. Some people cut courses to achieve their life’s dream. Others just lie about it.
I think the LA Times article should put a pretty nice capstone on this, assuming it forces LAM’s hand on disqualification. But, even if it doesn’t, at least now we are really just down to a discrete and identifiable number of people being screwed over to some extent by FM (the age group competitors he bumped out of their rightful podium finishes).
Rough way to close out a lifetime of service to his community (pretty hard to deny he served his community to a greater extent than the average person), but not undeserved given the audacity of the cheating and the unwillingness to accept accountability when it was uncovered.
jesseriley wrote:
This is common, that elderly people who are fit all their lives at some point “feel” their age & gain weight & their metabolism changes. And they have a hard time facing this change.
Sub 4 hour Jesse rears his ugly head so early in the morning, 4:39am
K> wrote:
jesseriley wrote:
Frank just got old, and can’t deal with it, can’t care about whom he’s dragging down. Sometimes, it’s a gradual process, but not usually. I’ve worked years in elder care.
Do you tell them stories about your sub3?
Sub 3 for Miss Riley? When and where, I had no idea she was that fast.
Smoove wrote:
I think the LA Times article should put a pretty nice capstone on this, assuming it forces LAM’s hand on disqualification. But, even if it doesn’t, at least now we are really just down to a discrete and identifiable number of people being screwed over to some extent by FM (the age group competitors he bumped out of their rightful podium finishes).
Rough way to close out a lifetime of service to his community (pretty hard to deny he served his community to a greater extent than the average person), but not undeserved given the audacity of the cheating and the unwillingness to accept accountability when it was uncovered.
Don’t forget: Not just LAM, but the Sprouts Mesa-PHX Marathon result from February needs to come down. Take away LAM and Meza still has credit for the “world best” time in his age group. Sounds like Derek is still gathering materials there and will hopefully have something on his website before long to make that case.
It'd be really cool if cheating at marathons led to scrutiny in all other areas of one's life. Maybe we have a cheater at life on our hands.
it's only a matter of time wrote:
Let's add LAM 2014 to the list of illegitimate race results. Derek, have at it.
frank, just come clean. you cheated for years (maybe over a decade). not sure why or how, but stop the lying. it's terrible that you continue to lie to those who trusted you.
Apparently, Frank was developing his recovery from failure skills back in undergrad...could those skills have included making it look like he does the work without actually being able to do it himself (kind of like running sub 3 marathons while looking like an ordinary 70-year-old with a gait to match)?
"When Frank Meza completed his first term as a UC Berkeley student, he brought home three Fs and a D."
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-05-24-vw-39157-story.htmlNon super sleuth. wrote:
The mans a machine. wrote:
LA 2015, good year with improvement from 2:59:10 in 2014 to 2:52:47, but no accomplice in the photos.
https://www.marathonfoto.com/Proofs?PIN=7K0H12&LastName=MEZAThird and fourth photos from the end are the same spot where he jumped in LA2019, (change in concrete colour) notice everyone else is out wide in the middle of the road, Frank is close to the gutter like he's just jumped in a bit further back.
Gotta love the last photo on the 4th was row - two shirtless guys and a woman in a sports bra looking like they’re running a decent pace. And then there’s Frank. Deer in the headlights. Both feet on the ground. Stumbling like he’s failing a sobriety test.
A hearty thanks wrote:
doubler wrote:
I have been methodically gathering every piece of data going back one race at a time.
Every instant where I can place him in a location on a course with another runner, I am comparing/calculating splits.
Additionally, I will be looking at photos for all runners that finished about the same time as Frank at all races. There has to be more photographic evidence for the other races. The FinisherPix are easier to hunt through chronologically than Marathonfoto.
Also, I spoke with the LA Times reporter. Expect an article within a week.
-Derek
Thanks.
Your public humiliation efforts are greatly appreciated.
If rule enforcement was taken seriously by the race organization, rule-breakers wouldn't be left wide-open exposed to the wolves of the Internet. Perhaps participants suffering losses and damages as a consequence, would be encouraged to claim from the organizers (as a direct consequence of direliction of their duty).
Anyhow, the sooner that this thing is over will be the better for any guilty parties who are (rightly or wrongly) getting a public pilloring.
Perplexed Still wrote:
check out the time lapse video wrote:
https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2019/06/frank-meza-additional-evidence-la-marathon-course-cutting.htmlI think that's from the time-lapse of the auto-camera. I'm talking about the guy on the ground taking pictures. He might have more pics of the shadowy figure entering the course in the background or the method he used to get to the entrance point of the course.
It would seem Frank came from the side street. There is nothing before he appears on the overhead camera showing him going up to that point.
fisky wrote:
Could this be done by bicycle by a 70-year-old? Initially, I thought it would have required a car with a driver, but if the run portions were short enough, it could be done with a bicycle, especially if the runner was a triathlete, like FM. Here's how.
Park bike 1/8 mile before the mat. Enter race at the time to hit proper split
Cross mat... split time starts.
Run 1/8 mile... elapsed split time 1 minute
Easy run/jog back to bike (now 1/4 mile away) 2.5 min... elapsed time 3.5 min
Bike 3 miles to 1/8 mile before next mat at 15mph (12 min)... elapsed time 15.5 min
Walk to next jump in point 60 seconds... elapsed time 16.5 min
The runner has 3 minutes to wait before jumping in and running 1 minute to hit next mat at 20:30ish
If you increase the distance before the mat to 400m and after the mat to 400m, then the runner would hit the next bike parking area in about 18.5 minutes, walk 30 seconds to jump in point, wait 30 seconds and run 1 min to the next mat. It would still be possible, but that would be cutting the margins for error very close. I doubt if he ever ran this far.
Realistically, if a bicycle was used, then the jump on and off the course would need to be within a couple of hundred meters of the mat. Definitely doable if the running portion is kept this short.
However, a car with a driver makes it easy peasy.
While doing it alone on bike is the simplest solution, I’ve been open to an accomplice theory for a few reasons. I admit that a bike limits risk of a traffic problem and does not require him to find a accomplice, so all things being equal it would be the ideal way to cheat.
But...
I once biked along with my wife while she ran Chicago in about 3:20. Of course I didn’t go on the course. I stayed on sidewalks and parallel streets. It was a nightmare. Much harder than I anticipated. Perhaps people who have done or spectated L.A. would say that it would be easier there, with fewer spectators, wider sidewalks, and accessible parallel streets.
The hardest part about following her was the first few miles. That’s why I wrote that FM’s biggest challenge would be getting from the start to 5k in the right time. But if there is a shortcut that reduces the distance significantly then maybe that isn’t so hard.
Finally, why did he have the chip on a lanyard? To pass it off easier? To avoid an accidental tripping of a timing mat?
Just thought of something... what if you were really ambitious and used a few bikes, locked up the night before, so you never have to backtrack to get the one you just used? No, I don’t think he did that. But it would be some next-level cheating! Ride bike, ditch bike, cross mat, carry on, get next bike, etc. You could Pony Express the course.
I see Frank is wearing a lanyard around his neck in only some of these photos.
casually observant wrote:
I see Frank is wearing a lanyard around his neck in only some of these photos.
From some of the lanyard photos, it looks like he's got an id badge or something of the like. I was thinking if so, maybe it could be like a Kaiser badge that he flashes here and there when people are suspicious and he just claims he's on the course because he's a doctor, in case anyone needs emergency assistance.
I believe there have been a couple of photos showing him holding the lanyard close to the mat (to register), though I could be wrong. With regards to the start being the most complicated, the delayed start would mean he’d have time to be near the starting mat (but on the other side of the barrier) and swing it close enough to register (which he could check with live tracking on his phone that we believe he’s carrying in his pocket). Once his chip has “started” he can go to his bike (or car or accomplice) without having to run the opening stretch with crowds and barriers.
If there’s a generic set of start photos showing everyone right after the gun, we could look for people whose numbers match up with his gun start time and see if we spot him anywhere. I don’t know if that set exists.
doubler wrote:
Perplexed Still wrote:
I think that's from the time-lapse of the auto-camera. I'm talking about the guy on the ground taking pictures. He might have more pics of the shadowy figure entering the course in the background or the method he used to get to the entrance point of the course.
It would seem Frank came from the side street. There is nothing before he appears on the overhead camera showing him going up to that point.
thanks and keep up the great work!
jesseriley wrote:
This is common, that elderly people who are fit all their lives at some point “feel” their age & gain weight & their metabolism changes. And they have a hard time facing this change.
says the conman elderly guy Jesse himself. break 24 for 5k yet?
el hombre wrote:
I believe there have been a couple of photos showing him holding the lanyard close to the mat (to register), though I could be wrong. With regards to the start being the most complicated, the delayed start would mean he’d have time to be near the starting mat (but on the other side of the barrier) and swing it close enough to register (which he could check with live tracking on his phone that we believe he’s carrying in his pocket). Once his chip has “started” he can go to his bike (or car or accomplice) without having to run the opening stretch with crowds and barriers.
Yes, this was one of the reasons given for this being Kip's M.O.
I had a thought this morning about biking between the mats. He could buy several beater bikes and lock them in strategic locations then abandon them after he rides them to his next race reentry point.
He had to hitch his bib belt all the way up to his stomach to make sure it was seen. It must have sunk down too low when he was sitting in the car. Maybe it got crumpled by the seat belt.
RossiCheated wrote:
fisky wrote:
Could this be done by bicycle by a 70-year-old? Initially, I thought it would have required a car with a driver, but if the run portions were short enough, it could be done with a bicycle, especially if the runner was a triathlete, like FM. Here's how.
Park bike 1/8 mile before the mat. Enter race at the time to hit proper split
Cross mat... split time starts.
Run 1/8 mile... elapsed split time 1 minute
Easy run/jog back to bike (now 1/4 mile away) 2.5 min... elapsed time 3.5 min
Bike 3 miles to 1/8 mile before next mat at 15mph (12 min)... elapsed time 15.5 min
Walk to next jump in point 60 seconds... elapsed time 16.5 min
The runner has 3 minutes to wait before jumping in and running 1 minute to hit next mat at 20:30ish
If you increase the distance before the mat to 400m and after the mat to 400m, then the runner would hit the next bike parking area in about 18.5 minutes, walk 30 seconds to jump in point, wait 30 seconds and run 1 min to the next mat. It would still be possible, but that would be cutting the margins for error very close. I doubt if he ever ran this far.
Realistically, if a bicycle was used, then the jump on and off the course would need to be within a couple of hundred meters of the mat. Definitely doable if the running portion is kept this short.
However, a car with a driver makes it easy peasy.
While doing it alone on bike is the simplest solution, I’ve been open to an accomplice theory for a few reasons. I admit that a bike limits risk of a traffic problem and does not require him to find a accomplice, so all things being equal it would be the ideal way to cheat.
But...
I once biked along with my wife while she ran Chicago in about 3:20. Of course I didn’t go on the course. I stayed on sidewalks and parallel streets. It was a nightmare. Much harder than I anticipated. Perhaps people who have done or spectated L.A. would say that it would be easier there, with fewer spectators, wider sidewalks, and accessible parallel streets.
The hardest part about following her was the first few miles. That’s why I wrote that FM’s biggest challenge would be getting from the start to 5k in the right time. But if there is a shortcut that reduces the distance significantly then maybe that isn’t so hard.
Finally, why did he have the chip on a lanyard? To pass it off easier? To avoid an accidental tripping of a timing mat?
Just thought of something... what if you were really ambitious and used a few bikes, locked up the night before, so you never have to backtrack to get the one you just used? No, I don’t think he did that. But it would be some next-level cheating! Ride bike, ditch bike, cross mat, carry on, get next bike, etc. You could Pony Express the course.
I'm not questioning that it's absolutely possible he had an accomplice, but why the hell would someone go along for that ride? The only circumstance I can reasonably fathom is one where the cheater is paying a bib mule for the assistance, or some type of quid pro quo. An accomplice would certainly make it easier to transport a bike around and workout logistics.
In such a scenario, it'd be sort of like those run/bike relay races, where teams alternate between running and biking an entire course. Basically, a team member hands off the bike to the finishing runner, who bicycles to the next check point, and waits for the runner. In these races, some teams have a trailer attached to one of the bicycles to help transport an extra bicycle around in case of an emergency.
It's also conceivable that the cheater is solo. The cheater lines up at the start of the race and rapidly falls behind, perhaps pretending to have equipment issues (untied shoe (in mass starts, heels are often caught/runners tripped up and shoes lost), etc) and falls off course shortly after the start. The cheater grabs a bike and rides to the 5K timing mat and enters the race for the check point time and photo ops. Rinse and repeat. At a modest bicycle speed of 15 mph, it'd only take the cheater 12 minutes to get from the start to the 5k mat. Based on the relative lack of sweat/exertion displayed by this accused cheater, I'd have to imagine they'd be using a bicycle with a support motor, making it extremely easy to bicycle 20+ mph from check point to check point.
If the cheater has completed a number of triathlons and duathlons, they'd certainly be skilled enough to navigate the transitions seamlessly, and that'd probably be where they got the original idea of how to pull off a great marathon cheating feat.
I'm not entirely familiar with bicycle rentals, but do any of the companies provide swipe card to access bicycles?