Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Thanks Sirpoc, very useful.

Re RPE, is the RPE in breathing and the legs the same? Or does it sometimes feel harder on legs, although very easy on the breathing? e.g. Strides is harder on the legs compared to breathing (for me).

I'll second what Alfie said. That is quite useful and provides some context. I think I often go a little too hard still from time to time. I'm learning to be more of a slave to my watch and the numbers, but it's hard to rewire this old brain of mine! I'm almost there though. It's really important to stick to it if you want that long term improvement. There is certainly no quick fix here!

I've been using this method myself and with a fellow masters teammate since around December. He has responded way better than me and is probably running times he would have 5+ years ago. When you are in our 50s like us, that's quite incredible. I've had my best start to a year in 2-3 years. Again, when you consider I am 53, any improvement of years past feels like a win, I'm usually happy to just to have a year where I hold off the decline! Really always enjoy checking this thread over my morning coffee before I go for a run.

Absolutely, Thank you Sirpoc. That adds so much to the equation!

You guys do realise this is just the Easy Interval Method by Klass Lok, right? This is literally nothing new lol

You guys are hilarious. 100+ pages on something already covered. I enjoyed the CV/CS discussion though I learned something good there. Very powerful stuff to know.

Or it's 'train don't strain', or it's Summer of Malmo but with limited time...

Either a troll job or you literally are too lazy to read the thread. Absolutely nothing similar with this and EIM , other than, you run some intervals. Read the thread. Or don't. But if you don't, make sure you actually know what is going on here before you make a fool of yourself, not what you think is going on, just from a few comments or the title.

EIM, all the flaws, limitations etc have been pointed out. This is pretty carefully balanced, but geared towards long term success if you are willing to really put the work in.

Is that consistent with 'modifying to lower mileage'?

The Norwegian double threshold model is supported by 100 plus mpw.

Many runners on here cannot sustain that volume long term.

Those following the method on here aren't lowering their mileage, they are simply doing as much threshold as there current mileage total supports.

Okay fine, but it still boils down to 'I was running workouts too hard, now I am doing moderate workouts.' People on lrc used to brag about how slow they had to run on easy days. Maybe their problem was that they pushed too hard in frequent 'hero' workouts and just trashed themselves. Train don't strain.

On this approach is there any v02 max or faster running each week? Or no faster stuff at all?

I think Strides is optional.

Which spreadsheet did you use to build from 5.5 hours to 7 hours? I don’t see it in the group.

look deeper....

You would be crazy not to include vo2 max stuff, even right up to 10k as your target race. You will need that extra pace in your legs to finish strong. It's proven running around these paces will improve you on race day + getting used to what you will need to do on the day. You with fund a serious training system that doesn't include some work around this, almost weekly even in the build. There is a general misconception with today's generation of runners that you can go easier and still race fast. Total myth, you put in what you put out. Hope that helps!

They tried what you propose back in the 1990s and it was a disaster for western distance running.

I agree with this to an extent. I'm a coach with plenty of experience with younger athletes and it would be hard to take seriously for any respected coach something that didn't incorporate race pace work, whatever that distance might be.

Even for older or masters runners. As for sirpoc , I suspect there is more here going on than we are shown on the face, that is my gut reaction to this thread. I am happy to offer my coaching services as I think I could probably take him sub 15, if he incorporated a mixture of the threshold work and then some specific hills and drills. Right now, he lacks any real speed to hit those paces you need for sub 15, which would be a remarkable achievement. No magic coach here, just 40+ years of experience of knowing what takes a runner to the next level.

Coaching for 40 years unfortunately doesn't mean that you know much. I know a ton of coaches that jam Vo2 Max and hard race pace efforts in on a weekly basis and their athletes suck, and they refuse to budge on it. The point of this thread is that you can get ~95% of the way there in a fashion that leaves you less burned out and less likely to get injured. Of course to fully reach your potential you will have to hit all of the other zones in some quantity, but the point is that this training is the best bang for your buck, specifically for older runners.

I think that probably on this method in thread most hobby joggers can get to 17-18 mins range for 5k just on this alone.. But I agree, go get any faster you need speed or sharpen workouts. You do need to know 5k pace to run a 5k . It is very specific event. It's why you see sub 17 guys, the fast masters athletes doing track workout. They know you need this to compete.

Are people even reading this thread? Seriously, that is a genuine question. Anyone can go on Strava to the Norwegian group and follow what sirpoc is doing. He just ran 15:40. I have his training on my feeds every single day. He does no strides, no hills, no 5k pace work. None. I don't understand what is hard to accept or understand about this? It's like this has been somehow built into this mystery or myth or that something is being hidden.

I am a master also on the British Masters scene. The 5k national masters road championship is usually won in a low 15. It was 15:19 I think last year. I placed in the top 30, in something like a mid to high 16. Sirpoc would lap me in a 5k , or close to it, on the track. If he continues to progress at the same rate, there's a good chance he could win the road 5k masters national champs or at least get top 5. Must be all that 5k work I'm doing that helps me almost get lapped versus what he is doing.

I have been running 20+ years since cross country in school on cold winter afternoons in the north of England. I've had dozens of coaches who think they know everything about running. I can tell you now I would probably recommend what sirpoc is doing to what 99% of so called paid or professional coaches would prescribe. I certainly know how I will structure my training next year based on this thread.