Guye wrote:
This just pisses me off. I don't have a lot of talent, so to think that I have worked my butt off over the last 4 years to get to around a 16:30 5k, and then this jerk thinks he can just hop in and have the same PR. What a waste of a human.
Crucify him! Crucify him! "around a 16:30 5K"???....lol, you don't know your best 5K time? Another waste of a human.
Sociopaths are born wrote:
The problem is that sociopaths are sociopaths as children. They reveal themselves as children. This kids behavior is far beyond the norm. His cheating is brazen and he's unapologetic. Good normal kids don't act this way. He's not going to change. While he's not nearly as bad as todd kohlhepp, todd was only 15 when his personality became very clear. Should he have been given more chances because of his age?
I am sorry but you clearly don't work with kids.
I have taught teenagers for more than a decade and I have had a lot of kids that I know would easily try to cheat in races if given a chance.
How do you know he is unapologetic, have you talked to him?
WhitePony wrote:
Sociopaths are born wrote:The problem is that sociopaths are sociopaths as children. They reveal themselves as children. This kids behavior is far beyond the norm. His cheating is brazen and he's unapologetic. Good normal kids don't act this way. He's not going to change. While he's not nearly as bad as todd kohlhepp, todd was only 15 when his personality became very clear. Should he have been given more chances because of his age?
I am sorry but you clearly don't work with kids.
I have taught teenagers for more than a decade and I have had a lot of kids that I know would easily try to cheat in races if given a chance.
How do you know he is unapologetic, have you talked to him?
That don't make it right Pilgrim
WhitePony wrote:
Sociopaths are born wrote:The problem is that sociopaths are sociopaths as children. They reveal themselves as children. This kids behavior is far beyond the norm. His cheating is brazen and he's unapologetic. Good normal kids don't act this way. He's not going to change. While he's not nearly as bad as todd kohlhepp, todd was only 15 when his personality became very clear. Should he have been given more chances because of his age?
I am sorry but you clearly don't work with kids.
I have taught teenagers for more than a decade and I have had a lot of kids that I know would easily try to cheat in races if given a chance.
How do you know he is unapologetic, have you talked to him?
Okay, so show us some other examples of kids doing what this guy has done. If a single teacher has had a lot of kids who would do this, then there must be thousands of kids across the country pulling these kinds of stunts every season.
If a person is genuinely apologetic, they don't do the thing that they are apologetic about again. If you keep doing something over and over again, you are not apologetic.
WhitePony wrote:
Sociopaths are born wrote:The problem is that sociopaths are sociopaths as children. They reveal themselves as children. This kids behavior is far beyond the norm. His cheating is brazen and he's unapologetic. Good normal kids don't act this way. He's not going to change. While he's not nearly as bad as todd kohlhepp, todd was only 15 when his personality became very clear. Should he have been given more chances because of his age?
I am sorry but you clearly don't work with kids.
I have taught teenagers for more than a decade and I have had a lot of kids that I know would easily try to cheat in races if given a chance.
How do you know he is unapologetic, have you talked to him?
I teach a DE class at the local high school, and, one of the surprises when I started was just how rampant cheating is - I'd say 90% of the kids cheat on at least half of their graded assignments in some way or another. There's cheating at the college I work for, too, but, probably not like their younger fellows. As people become adults, most of them learn that cheating not only carries a risk of external punishment, but also, as the cliche goes, that cheating at something is only cheating yourself.
So, I agree with many on here that we need to back off this kid. Milestat may have felt burned after the first race and that's why they profiled him, still they went too far.
Hopefully he'll get the help he needs - he's obviously not mentally healthy. Not just because he's cheating, but because he's so brazenly bad and obvious - cheating in an indoor 800?!? And in this case, when he's gotten no significant advantage from his cheating, we and the rest of the internet should hope that as well and let those around him - who know him - help him do so.
A Florida Coach wrote:
I am not excusing what he did—cheating—at all.
What I am saying is, per his actual running prior to his ducking out and cheating, I would be curious how he'd do as a sprinter. Also, in sprints it's nearly impossible to cheat as he has. I feel he should forfeit his prior race times—all of them—and probably do community/school service or something before being allowed back on a team or to return to racing. And if he needs counseling, obviously that as well but I'm not a shrink so I'm not the person to determine that aspect. However, I do not think we should consign a teen to never having a future running ever again, let's not just write him off totally.
He needs whatever help and also disciplinary action that is appropriate. Then when he returns to competition, put him in events where he cannot cheat.
Why don't you quit your Florida job, and move to New Jersey, so you can start a track team and rehab him.
tzxc wrote:
19217 Ruthford Stephens M3539 151 9/305 129/2496 23:36 7:36
Some professional runner!
It's already been covered.
Go find the thread and post on it.
I have talked to him and I can confirm that he is unapologetic.
crete wrote:
Lip Kitten wrote:This whole thing is very odd. Vericelly vs. Vericelli. Memorial High School (West New York, NJ) Class of 2011 and Union City High School Class of 2017. These schools are about two miles apart. He is wearing a "Memorial" singlet in one of his videos. Is he actually on the Union City team? There is no way a coach did not kick him off after the first DQ.
His twitter says his DOB is 1994 which makes him 22.
https://twitter.com/terryvar14Is this the same guy? Is he really 22? Did he go to Memorial HS and then re-enroll at Union City under a slightly different name (change the i to a y). Someone posted on here that he worked as a camp counselor which requires you to be college aged.
Something is odd here
From what I understand from one of his teammates who is a friend of mine, he is of age and transfered to Union City after a disagreement with the Memorial High School coach and team.
Disgusting that some people show sympathy for this sociopath.
What about the kid that lost a 3rd place in that 800m?
The video of that race has been watched 40,000 times already btw.
So milesplit outed him for an outrageous scam, he played the victim card, and they let him hang out with them. They reinforced his behaviour.
All that taught him that no matter how ridiculous the behaviour, he could get away with it.
And the coaches posting on here are responsible for reinforcing scammers. "Oh he's only a kid and he'll grow out of it." No he won't. You taught him that he doesn't have to.
Coach, how many kids will you be turning into future criminals?
vermicelli wrote:
Disgusting that some people show sympathy for this sociopath.
What about the kid that lost a 3rd place in that 800m?
The video of that race has been watched 40,000 times already btw.
I think the kid that lost 3rd place will survive.
No one is excusing what this kid did, they are simply saying that he is a teenager who made mistakes and deserves to get help.
This is basically online bullying of a minor.
An Iowa Coach wrote:
I'm glad to see that at least one of the LR "experts" has an idea of what they are talking about.
To the rest... this kid is a high schooler. He has cheated in multiple races, but that is pretty obvious to anyone who knows anything about running without checking video evidence and "sleuthing" to find out how he did it. No one runs as inconsistently as his results show. A bad race for a 16:30 guy is not 19+ minutes (that would be an easy run or a bad tempo). No 19+ minute guy can run 4:30 - sub 5 would be a stretch, especially indoors and in New Jersey. It's possible his 55s 400 is legit.
Beyond the initial shock of "wow that's crazy", why does it matter that this kid is cheating races? Clearly those in his local community are aware of how he operates and he has already been kicked off of 2 teams. For those saying he needs to be disciplined, his coaches have already taken care of that. The last thing he needs is people trolling/hazing/bullying him on the internet, I am sure they are already doing it at his school.
If you are worried he is going to steal a scholarship or something, obviously that won't happen. Any college coach is going to want to talk to his high school coaches before making an offer.
He very well may be a pathological liar, but that isn't really our problem now is it? You meet people like that all the time in life, when they tell you "fish stories" you just nod and smile and everyone in the room knows what's going on. It feels as though you are all saying "pathological liars shouldn't be allowed to run", but fortunately, the LR community doesn't get to decide who is allowed to run and who is not.
It may seem inconsequential to you - but there is a snowball effect to his actions. Everytime he cheats a kid out of a podium spot in a race - it has an effect.
Again - these are kids. Someone who put everything they had into an 800 and who ended up in 4th because some asshat cheated for 3rd - that has mental consequences - if nothing else. Not to mention that there are college scouts and coaches who NEED results. People that get scouted can be on the fringe - and when that 3rd place finish was enough to get them over - a 4th place may not be. It's how it works.
I think dismissing what he did as "no big deal" is a bit short sighted. Sure, he's a kid and kids make mistakes and we all did stupid shit in high school. But, this is intentional and is doing harm. It's not like he cheated while racing some of his buddies for fun.
And he's done it enough - after being caught several times - that I believe the internet withhunt on him is justified.
2/10
Accountabilty wrote:
So milesplit outed him for an outrageous scam, he played the victim card, and they let him hang out with them. They reinforced his behaviour.
All that taught him that no matter how ridiculous the behaviour, he could get away with it.
And the coaches posting on here are responsible for reinforcing scammers. "Oh he's only a kid and he'll grow out of it." No he won't. You taught him that he doesn't have to.
Coach, how many kids will you be turning into future criminals?
Exactly. This 18 year old is likely to end up in the armed forces tasked with a great responsibility of firearms and trust with his others in arms disaster. Team and sports mean something. This man has already chosen to cheat and go unattached
WhitePony wrote:
I think the kid that lost 3rd place will survive.
No one is excusing what this kid did, they are simply saying that he is a teenager who made mistakes and deserves to get help.
This is basically online bullying of a minor.
As far as anyone can tell, he is not a minor.
I want to know where this kids parents are in all this. They don't seem like they are very involved in his life. Which could be one of the problems.
Perhaps the officials were dozing in the indoor 800m but most parents watch their own kids run in things like that. Even if they missed that particular race, what about all the other races he cheated at. What about the races where he paid people to run. Wouldn't the parents have found that out? How could they be so unaware?
It's a parents job to properly monitor, recognize, and correct misbehavior. An involved parent would have caught this stuff long ago.
Also people who talk about lots of teens cheating on tests or doing stupid things are missing the point. This is far beyond that stuff. Furthermore, this seems to be a general problem with him, not just a few stupid things. According to the people that know him, this kid has demonstrated a general tendency to lie on almost everything. The great lengths and planning involved in these frauds goes way beyond most typical teens "stupid" impulsive momentary lapses in judgment. This is not "normal" teen behavior.
Reptilians wrote:
WhitePony wrote:I think the kid that lost 3rd place will survive.
No one is excusing what this kid did, they are simply saying that he is a teenager who made mistakes and deserves to get help.
This is basically online bullying of a minor.
As far as anyone can tell, he is not a minor.
He's competing in high school races, isn't he? Where the evidence that he's over 18?
Accountabilty wrote:
So milesplit outed him for an outrageous scam, he played the victim card, and they let him hang out with them. They reinforced his behaviour.
the kid has cheated and lied many times as people have pointed out and so when this kids tells you he was invited to milesplit hq (is there such a thing even) you believe him? are you stupid?
Link wrote:
Reptilians wrote:As far as anyone can tell, he is not a minor.
He's competing in high school races, isn't he? Where the evidence that he's over 18?
Yeah. This kid has done enough wrong that we don't need to call our own argument into question by adding unsubstantiated accusations.