canspo wrote:
In my opinion you're right and wrong. Something is going on. I am just skeptical of the true extent and of outright doping versus manipulating the TUE process. I'm not condoning either, but I do remain unconvinced that there is a full blown testosterone or EPO doping scheme going on here.
Wow. It's not EPO so it's not doping.
A coach telling his professional athlete to dose asthma medicine way beyond her MDs specified dosage IS a team-wide doping program.
Jeff Albertson wrote:
So did Fleshman admit to doping?
No. She's never tested positive like so many.
Do you honestly think you get to National/International elite on bread and water?
There will be a few new threads that attempt to discredit Fleshman because NOP/USATF desperately need to find some way to generate enough doubt so the story dies before Rio.
I'd argue the timing on the stories is terrible. They needed to run about a month before Rio next year. Of course, the IOC/IAAF would pull press credentials as a result, but who cares.
How is showing blood work with Testosterone labeled on it an opinion?
How is being told to take testosterone by a Nike doctor because that's what alberto's athletes do an opinion?
How is being tested 4 times in a month for a thyroid issue and passing all of them, but finally just getting the doctor to write a prescription because it was somewhat off an opinion?
Salazar shipping pills hidden in books and magazines are an opinion too?
Having unmarked vials and androgel are opinions?
I think you should look up the definition of what an opinion is...Yes they asked questions regarding the evidence because they need the opinions of the whistle blowers to create the complete story. Don't leave out all the evidence because you don't like hearing how bad they look.
Not a criminal defense lawyer wrote:
I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, but wouldn't mailing prescription drugs be a violation of federal law (the Controlled Substances Act)? Not sure if that would just subject Stiner/Magness to criminal liability, or if Salazar/Rupp could also be brought into the fray. Regardless, it seems like a pretty damning admission by those two. I certainly hope they get immunity so they can keep talking!
Most prescription drugs are not controlled substances under the CSA. The CSA only covers drugs that are likely to be abused, such as opiates and steroids.
My hunch is that mailing someone a prescribed drug they had left behind is unlikely to be prosecuted, unless the circumstances are shady.
There is also the matter of the statute of limitations, which is relatively short (3-5 years) for such minor crimes..
I guess if the Daily Mail is flying its chief sports writer to the US, then the end game isn't about Salazar or Rupp.
Most of the DM's content is about celebrities, and there's only one in this story (in the UK anyway).
Geoff Hardy wrote:
I guess if the Daily Mail is flying its chief sports writer to the US, then the end game isn't about Salazar or Rupp.
Most of the DM's content is about celebrities, and there's only one in this story (in the UK anyway).
Celebrities and immigration. This story is a double whammy.
Not a crime wrote:
Not a criminal defense lawyer wrote:I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, but wouldn't mailing prescription drugs be a violation of federal law (the Controlled Substances Act)? Not sure if that would just subject Stiner/Magness to criminal liability, or if Salazar/Rupp could also be brought into the fray. Regardless, it seems like a pretty damning admission by those two. I certainly hope they get immunity so they can keep talking!
Most prescription drugs are not controlled substances under the CSA. The CSA only covers drugs that are likely to be abused, such as opiates and steroids.
My hunch is that mailing someone a prescribed drug they had left behind is unlikely to be prosecuted, unless the circumstances are shady.
There is also the matter of the statute of limitations, which is relatively short (3-5 years) for such minor crimes..
Doping and related activities are not crimes in the U.S. NCAA and the USOC has made certain that remains non-criminal.
runDirtyrun wrote:
Not a crime wrote:Most prescription drugs are not controlled substances under the CSA. The CSA only covers drugs that are likely to be abused, such as opiates and steroids.
My hunch is that mailing someone a prescribed drug they had left behind is unlikely to be prosecuted, unless the circumstances are shady.
There is also the matter of the statute of limitations, which is relatively short (3-5 years) for such minor crimes..
Doping and related activities are not crimes in the U.S. NCAA and the USOC has made certain that remains non-criminal.
I didn't know that the NCAA and USOC were part of Congress and culd write criminal law?
Has anyone mentioned the possibility that the "allergy 1" and "allergy 2" vials could be some sort of performance-enhancing drug that only Salazar is aware of? (EPO, something undetectable, etc.)
Perhaps Rupp, who has been under Salazar's guidance since he was a minor, fully believes he is taking allergy injections.
Salazar, a former athlete and an extremely emotional and competitive person, benefits just as much, if not more, from the success of the athletes he coaches.
Just because Rupp believes in clean sport does not mean his coach does.
quote]runDirtyrun wrote:
Doping and related activities are not crimes in the U.S. NCAA and the USOC has made certain that remains non-criminal.[/quote]
Obama the lawyer wrote:
I didn't know that the NCAA and USOC were part of Congress and culd write criminal law?[/quote]
Nice try, but that's why he said they "made certain" doping violations weren't criminalized. The implication is clearly that they lobbied Congress and/or the President to make sure the law wasn't changed.
Slytherin wrote:
PL... wrote:Right now, we have 17 people associated (athletes or staff) with Rupp/Salazar that don't have a single lick of factual evidence that demonstrates Rupp himself was doping.
Except for, oh I dunno, a picture of Rupp's medical chart stating he was on testosterone?
BS. Why are people misstating this fact??
Rupp medical chart said he was on a "Testosterone Medication" See the difference? In fact, that would lead MOST literate people to believe he was not on testosterone, but something else. Otherwise, the medical chart would have just said he was taking testosterone.
The chart leads one to believe he was NOT on testosterone.
HP IYF wrote:
The chart leads one to believe he was NOT on testosterone.
NOPe. WRONg.
wejo wrote:
They now need to explain why they have unmarked in 1 case, labeled "Asthma 1" and "asthma 2" in another. A possible explanation is that Galen has some special asthma medication that is not a normal drug with traditional markings. That is a perfectly reasonable explanation, but when you throw this stuff in with all the other allegations there is a lot to answer for.
The FDA has strict labeling requirements. There is no good reason someone would be injecting something from an apparently hand labelled vial. There is also no good reason to remove a factory label and create your own.
Also, there are now two separate allegations of people being asked by Salazar to ship things for him. Just like any smart drug dealer, they never want to be caught with the product.
HP IYF wrote:
Slytherin wrote:Except for, oh I dunno, a picture of Rupp's medical chart stating he was on testosterone?
BS. Why are people misstating this fact??
Rupp medical chart said he was on a "Testosterone Medication" See the difference? In fact, that would lead MOST literate people to believe he was not on testosterone, but something else. Otherwise, the medical chart would have just said he was taking testosterone.
The chart leads one to believe he was NOT on testosterone.
But didn't Al call it a mistake and try to discredit the Dr that wrote 'testosterone medication'? Why would he do that if literate people would just assume it was Testoboost or some other 'medication'?
joho wrote:
But didn't Al call it a mistake and try to discredit the Dr that wrote 'testosterone medication'? Why would he do that if literate people would just assume it was Testoboost or some other 'medication'?
That's what Magness said.
PS The guy who supposedly wrote "testosterone medication" was a PhD doc (an exercise physiologist), not an MD doc. Most people who see Dr think MD, not PhD, which just goes to show how slippery language is.
KMB wrote:
Aren't those of you accusing Robert and Weldon of biased and sloppy journalism and worse, and trying to poke holes in the Epstein, BBC and Lawton accounts, at least a little concerned that Salazar hasn't delivered on his promise to issue a substantive statement by now?
He said about nine days ago that he'd have something official too say by the end of the week (presumably meaning by last Friday, or last Sunday at the latest), and it is now Wednesday of the following week. This doesn't look good on a couple of fronts: One, it obviously makes him look less credible across the board, and two, it makes it appear as though he knows or suspects that even more is going to come out soon (for example, he had to have known that Magness had those e-mails and had simply elected not to discuss them yet).
So, assuming that those of you who are deeply skeptical of Stiner, Magness, the Gouchers, and others impugning Salazar are not biased in favor of the NOP and are simply skeptical in general, as you say you are, how do you thus explain Salazar's rigid and extended silence? Is he madly working on assembling some sort of apocalyptically destructive retort that will utterly humiliate his detractors for all time...or is he, you know, hiding and waiting for the inevitable hammer to fall? Or is it something in between?
The best way to quiet a rowdy audience is to tell them that the show will begin soon. -Victor Hugo, The Hunchback of Notre Dame
Opinions Minions wrote:
How is showing blood work with Testosterone labeled on it an opinion?
How is being told to take testosterone by a Nike doctor because that's what alberto's athletes do an opinion?
How is being tested 4 times in a month for a thyroid issue and passing all of them, but finally just getting the doctor to write a prescription because it was somewhat off an opinion?
Salazar shipping pills hidden in books and magazines are an opinion too?
Having unmarked vials and androgel are opinions?
I think you should look up the definition of what an opinion is...Yes they asked questions regarding the evidence because they need the opinions of the whistle blowers to create the complete story. Don't leave out all the evidence because you don't like hearing how bad they look.
Who said they were tested 4 times in a month and then got a prescription for thyroid medication? I'm not doubting this was said, but I don't remember that being in the article.
My point was some of the 17 may not actually have had anything meaningful to report. For example, Rohatinsky, unless he has something else, really delivered nothing but his opinion. Some components of other accusations are partially based on opinions about what things are (Allergy 1 and Allergy 2 aren't allergy medicine). Others are simply claims without any other substantiation. That isn't to say they aren't true, but I have no idea of there was a shipment with a book and hollowed out pills.
I admit to likely being blinded by a desire to see things in the best positive light and not admit that the alternative may be true. I may be a bit naive. However, I'm also not willing to blindly believe and take the worst possible view of every individual item. Looking at the big picture is important, but concluding your view of the big picture and then using that to taint your decision making on every individual component is just as bad. I'm not comfortable with a full conviction before I hear a defense, whatever it may be. I don't see the harm in waiting a week or two.
Salazar needs to come back with a legitimate, detailed response that is more than "I believe in a clean sport". There is simply no way he can refute some of the claims, because even if he's right you often can't prove something didn't happen. He does need to address the specifics as best he can. At that point I'll feel comfortable going one way or the other.
canspo wrote:
but I have no idea of there was a shipment with a book and hollowed out pills.
So after the email arose of another situation where Al asked pills to be shipped inside a magazine, you still think that Magness just made the book/pills story up?
The Daily Mail is notorious for paying for information.
Could someone get Stiner on record to confirm he has not been paid for his story by the Mail or others. Ask the question to Stiner if anyone has offered him money for information.
Can someone contact his wife for her statement as apparently they are no longer together. Since Stiner states she was a part of the process it would be interesting to get her take.
Does anyone have accurate background information on Stiner, history?He is fair game now that he chosen to be a public figure.
Try Google wrote:
Not too hard to confirm that allergy medicine needs to be refrigerated:
http://www.aafp.org/afp/2004/0815/p689.htmlAllergen immunotherapy (also called allergy vaccine therapy) involves the administration of gradually increasing quantities of specific allergens to patients with IgE-mediated conditions until a dose is reached that is effective in reducing disease severity from natural exposure. The major objectives of allergen immunotherapy are to reduce responses to allergic triggers that precipitate symptoms in the short term and to decrease inflammatory response and prevent development of persistent disease in the long term.
Vaccines must be stored properly to preserve biologic activity (Table 2).16,17 Vaccines should be refrigerated at 4°C (39.2°F) because storage at ambient room temperature results in loss of potency within weeks, with degradation occurring within days at higher temperatures. Critical to vaccine potency is the dilution effect: highly concentrated vaccines are more stable than dilute vaccines.18 The vaccine label should always be checked for the expiration date.
ABSOLUTELY BRO. Phew, I'm glad you solved that for us. The vials in a blur bag. The fridge. The needles - I'm glad that someone here finally has some sense.
Now where's my Scooby snack...