Sorry a person who is 85%ile in their high school is not exceptional. No reason they are entitled to an elite degree.
Not sure how you can argue otherwise.
You're either retarded or pretending to be. Is the 85th percentile runner in an Olympic final not exceptional? But the 99th percentile at a local 5k is? Completely different pools of talent.
Yeah except a decent high school is much closer to a local 5k than the Olympic final.
You should be the big fish in your pond if you want you to go an elite school. Any less says you didn’t capitalize on your opportunities and thus aren’t that competent.
You're either retarded or pretending to be. Is the 85th percentile runner in an Olympic final not exceptional? But the 99th percentile at a local 5k is? Completely different pools of talent.
Yeah except a decent high school is much closer to a local 5k than the Olympic final.
You should be the big fish in your pond if you want you to go an elite school. Any less says you didn’t capitalize on your opportunities and thus aren’t that competent.
You don't think the 85th percentile at a school where the minimum qualification for entrance is a 99.9th percentile IQ is a better student than the 90th percentile at even a good suburban school?
Yeah except a decent high school is much closer to a local 5k than the Olympic final.
You should be the big fish in your pond if you want you to go an elite school. Any less says you didn’t capitalize on your opportunities and thus aren’t that competent.
You don't think the 85th percentile at a school where the minimum qualification for entrance is a 99.9th percentile IQ is a better student than the 90th percentile at even a good suburban school?
You’re making up situations that don’t exist. Even the most prestigious high school isn’t even close to your hypothetical.
Its perfectly reasonable to judge someone by the opportunities afforded to them
This post was edited 32 seconds after it was posted.
You don't think the 85th percentile at a school where the minimum qualification for entrance is a 99.9th percentile IQ is a better student than the 90th percentile at even a good suburban school?
You’re making up situations that don’t exist. Even the most prestigious high school isn’t even close to your hypothetical.
Its perfectly reasonable to judge someone by the opportunities afforded to them
"The mission of the Davidson Academy is to provide profoundly gifted young people an advanced educational opportunity matched to their abilities, strengths and interests. Profoundly gifted students are those who score in the 99.9th percentile on IQ and achievement tests."
How many DEI quotas do you fulfill? Because if you went to a good school you obviously were an affirmative action admit with how idiotic your posts are.
"The mission of the Davidson Academy is to provide profoundly gifted young people an advanced educational opportunity matched to their abilities, strengths and interests. Profoundly gifted students are those who score in the 99.9th percentile on IQ and achievement tests."
How many DEI quotas do you fulfill? Because if you went to a good school you obviously were an affirmative action admit with how idiotic your posts are.
There is ~zero chance that school exclusively serves the 99.9%ile of students. Happy to see evidence otherwise beyond their ad copy.
If true, sure, I could imagine that school should send a lot of kids to elite universities!
The average “good” high school should not. Someone who is 1:1000 is going to come across WAY better than someone 85%ile at a good high school.
You dont get to smuggle the weaker argument in with your stronger one.
I looked at that school and they have many students attending colleges with 90% admit rates (ASU, etc). They are not serving just the 99.9%ile. Good ad copy. Impossible in practice.
A 1350 kid at a s-hole school is absolutely more impressive than a 1500 kid way down in class ranking at a prestigious private school, ceteris paribus. And SAT scores are just one piece of the application.
I think that this kind of nuance would befuddle the Zhongs.
How exactly does a kid give "grade point weighted slightly over 5."
A in honors/AP class = 5.0
A in regular class = 4.0
How in the world could a person get a GPA "slightly over 5"? If there is no grade over 5, it will be impossible to get a GPA over 5, or even a 5.0, even with weighting/honors.
Impossible where I live. And, as I mention, in my kids' high school, most of the math, languages and elective are not "5 point classes" until you get to the AP class of the subject. (For some reason, English/Language Arts does have Honors, but math, bio, chem, etc are all weight normally until you reach the AP level.)
where i grew up we took 6 classes. there was no A+ bonus. unweighted was 4 but gifted/honors maxed at 6 and AP at 5. so someone taking 3 honors/gifted classes maxed at 5; 4 honors maxes out over 5 -- 5.33.
it's basic math. (4x6+2x4)/6=32/6=5.33
or (3x6+3x4)/6=5.0
we had honors the whole time in STEM and above III in the language progression. that encouraged you to stay with your junior high language and take difficult classes pushing you towards fluency.
now, a kid could decide, say, i will not take many honors, i will not take hard language classes, and i will game myself a near 4.0 unweighted. but he will get destroyed on rank by people like me taking hard classes even if getting imperfect grades. my B- outranks his A.
maybe the kid's theory was some elite school would see the SAT and the straight As and ignore his class rank and low level of class difficulty is below almost everyone else applying with those test scores.
this is part of what you're missing. at the level he's trying to compete it's a ton of kids with perfect or near perfect testing who also made perfect or near perfect grades -- but in ambitious honors classes. and with a rank mirroring that. his transcript sticks out negatively.
I don't know what state you are from, but that is definitely not the way it is done in most of the nation, including colleges/universities. In MOST high school systems, an unweighted 4.0 is straight A's. Weighted classes (AP/Honors) max out at 5. AP is actually harder/more advanced than "Honors." There is no such thing as a 6 point class in most of the nation. No wonder you were not impressed by a 3.97. But in California (where the Google kid was from), 3.97 unweighted is probably 1 B in all of high school. I didn't see his class choices so I'll have to trust you that they weren't impressive. However, in terms of calculating GPA, your school system is the anomaly here. I believe you, but most of the nation doesn't do it like your school did.
It’s “banned” but they use other proxies for it. As a trend, schools with LOWER average AP scores have higher acceptance rates into UCLA.
Why? The reason is obvious.
As an example - Lowell (1350 average SAT) vs Mission High (1020). And before I hear woke whining about how they’re test optional (which also was done in order to discriminate, mainly against Asians but also whites), it’s pretty obvious that students with 1350-1370 SAT averages are better than those with 1020.
Yet Mission has a 43% acceptance rate to Berkeley while Lowell has a 14% one? Lunacy
My kids' high school in Southern California is very high achieving and has the same issue. Lots of really smart Asian and South Asian kids there. The strategizing that occurs for kids to take 12+ AP classes is absurd (taking summer college classes even before 9th grade; taking on-line PE so they can fit in more APs during school hours.) Similar to what you say above, the high school's acceptance rates to the UC's are pretty dismal compared to other high schools in our county.
On the other hand, we have friends whose kids went to a high school in our county where most of the kids are Hispanic/Latinx (or however you want to say it) and lower income. Our friends' kids are bright but not in any way brilliant students, and they got into EVERY UC campus including Berkeley and UCLA. The funny thing is, these kids are white and the family is very middle income. The UC's can't ask about race but they were likely hoping that the kids were Latinx based on the high school they attended. Oops!
Sorry a person who is 85%ile in their high school is not exceptional. No reason they are entitled to an elite degree.
Not sure how you can argue otherwise.
You're either retarded or pretending to be. Is the 85th percentile runner in an Olympic final not exceptional? But the 99th percentile at a local 5k is? Completely different pools of talent.
The problem with your analogy is that he was competing in the decathlon, so while better than average in one event he was useless in the other 9.
I looked at that school and they have many students attending colleges with 90% admit rates (ASU, etc). They are not serving just the 99.9%ile. Good ad copy. Impossible in practice.
Average SAT scores of 1520, which is nowhere close to 99.9% percentile - and roughly half the students are BELOW that. So, agreed, no chance this school only accepts students in the 99.9% (despite what they may claim).
Betcha NONE of the ultra wealthy people on "Shark Tank" were gifted students.....People place to much importance on which schools they attend, other qualities are more important.
Betcha NONE of the ultra wealthy people on "Shark Tank" were gifted students.....People place to much importance on which schools they attend, other qualities are more important.
So you're saying that students are more than just a test score and should be evaluated in a more holistic way?
As an example - Lowell (1350 average SAT) vs Mission High (1020). And before I hear woke whining about how they’re test optional (which also was done in order to discriminate, mainly against Asians but also whites), it’s pretty obvious that students with 1350-1370 SAT averages are better than those with 1020.
Yet Mission has a 43% acceptance rate to Berkeley while Lowell has a 14% one? Lunacy
My kids' high school in Southern California is very high achieving and has the same issue. Lots of really smart Asian and South Asian kids there. The strategizing that occurs for kids to take 12+ AP classes is absurd (taking summer college classes even before 9th grade; taking on-line PE so they can fit in more APs during school hours.) Similar to what you say above, the high school's acceptance rates to the UC's are pretty dismal compared to other high schools in our county.
On the other hand, we have friends whose kids went to a high school in our county where most of the kids are Hispanic/Latinx (or however you want to say it) and lower income. Our friends' kids are bright but not in any way brilliant students, and they got into EVERY UC campus including Berkeley and UCLA. The funny thing is, these kids are white and the family is very middle income. The UC's can't ask about race but they were likely hoping that the kids were Latinx based on the high school they attended. Oops!
On-line PE? No wonder we have an obesity and mental health problem.
I looked at that school and they have many students attending colleges with 90% admit rates (ASU, etc). They are not serving just the 99.9%ile. Good ad copy. Impossible in practice.
Average SAT scores of 1520, which is nowhere close to 99.9% percentile - and roughly half the students are BELOW that. So, agreed, no chance this school only accepts students in the 99.9% (despite what they may claim).
Are there good data sources on this? I looked it up out of curiosity, and the best data I could find is the linked table from the college board, which indicates that a 1520 is in the 98 percentile among students who take the SAT and in the 99+ percentile among a 'nationally representative' selection of students (who may or may not take the SAT). I couldn't find the raw data or study methodology, but given that the cutoff for the 99 percentile in this table is a 1450, it's plausible to me that a 1520 is at least very close to the 99.9 percentile according to college board's internal analysis.
Average SAT scores of 1520, which is nowhere close to 99.9% percentile - and roughly half the students are BELOW that. So, agreed, no chance this school only accepts students in the 99.9% (despite what they may claim).
Are there good data sources on this? I looked it up out of curiosity, and the best data I could find is the linked table from the college board, which indicates that a 1520 is in the 98 percentile among students who take the SAT and in the 99+ percentile among a 'nationally representative' selection of students (who may or may not take the SAT). I couldn't find the raw data or study methodology, but given that the cutoff for the 99 percentile in this table is a 1450, it's plausible to me that a 1520 is at least very close to the 99.9 percentile according to college board's internal analysis.
I fit the linked data to an erf profile (CDF for a normal distribution*) and get a mean score of 1016 with a standard deviation of just over 200. That suggests 1520 is around the 99.4% percentile (which agrees with a non-verifiable source that claimed 99+ was 99.5), and 1590 is the 99.9% percentile.
* Not a perfect model, as the score range is limited to 400 to 1600.
Are there good data sources on this? I looked it up out of curiosity, and the best data I could find is the linked table from the college board, which indicates that a 1520 is in the 98 percentile among students who take the SAT and in the 99+ percentile among a 'nationally representative' selection of students (who may or may not take the SAT). I couldn't find the raw data or study methodology, but given that the cutoff for the 99 percentile in this table is a 1450, it's plausible to me that a 1520 is at least very close to the 99.9 percentile according to college board's internal analysis.
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