Maryland native Dave Patrick was denied a chance to compete at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City through a process that was later deemed unjust. "I can forgive," he said. "But I can't forget."
FALSE. Amby ran a 2:14 in 1968, which was one second of the American record.
Your posting license is hereby SUSPENDED for 48 hours.
Close but no cigar, huh? What else has he done? He must have a slew of thons between 2:14 - 2:22? Championships? What are his PRs? They must be great since he's a legend? Or not?
Really, "what else" does a US marathoner who's won the Boston Marathon need to do?
Respectfully, the purpose of the trials is not to 'select the three best' athletes. The purpose of the trials is to create drama, anticipation, story, suspense - to generate interest in the sport and attract viewers and spectators. They are not 'athletes'.... they are brand representatives, entertainers, and influencers.
That's not correct. The purpose of the trials is for the athletes to determine themselves who are the three best.
It is a mix of both. Ultimately, sports are entertainment. The trials are entertaining as hell. The courageous efforts of Panning, the determined Korir never giving in, the hard charging Albertson, it was great stuff! And the battle between Dakota Lindwurm, Saina, Hall and Rotich...I can't believe people want to eliminate the trials or the 3 spots coming from the trials. It's an incredible event.
I don't see that any of this is a problem. It's just a snapshot of reality. None of those stats have anything to do with our system or anything else. It's a big world out there. Would you really expect that the US with 350 million people would out-perform the rest of the world with 8 billion people? That's completely ridiculous. But that's not what this thread is about. It's about Burfoots completely absurd notion that our selection process is flawed, and there is a need to fix what's not broken.
(1) Stop calling him Burfoot. You're like the same age as him; call him Amby
(2) You're really obsessed with Amby
Please quit trying to drum up friction. I'm not obsessed with Burfoot in any way, shape or form. He doesn't even come up on my radar. I'm not even close to his age. When he was running marathons I was a skinny 70lb 12 year-old kid. By the time I attempted marathons, even at his best, he wouldn't have been competitive on my worst day in any event.
I agree with Malmo that Amby's proposition is offensive. It's bad, awful, and I'd even go so far as to say... Dumb.
Except that, in the 1992 U.S. Olympic Track Trials, he (Dan O'Brien) “no heighted” in the pole vault. This kept him off the U.S. Olympic team.
Dan took a risk by setting his opening height too high. He gambled to save energy and paid the price. He learned a valuable lesson and lowered his opening height from then on. It was his own fault -- he failed to perform under pressure.
But who says the Olympic selection system must be “fair?” Not me. I think the opposite.
Thank god Amby Burfoot isn't in charge, then.
Let’s make sure we send the best runners.
Agreed. Maybe we could even have them compete head-to-head to decide who we send.
She (Christine Clark) wasn’t among the top 10 female marathoners in the U.S. Probably not among the top 20. So why should she be going to the Olympics ahead of other more-proven runners?
Because she beat them all.
Then tell me why basically every other country in the world does something similar.
You mean like Ethiopa? The country that snubbed Kenenisa Bekele?
On the women’s side, I’d pick Emily Sisson, Keira D’Amato, and Betsy Saina, all of whom ran strong and fast in 2023.
Again, thank god Amby isn't actually making the picks. O'Keefe may be a future star. Amby would leave her home and we may never know. Despite her dominating the AR holder.
I agree that the 2 + 1 system is quite smart.
No it's not. Top 3 is quite smart. 2 + 1 is a silly compromise for people drumming up controversy over something that isn't controversial. I don't care if you're the WR holder -- if you can't place top 3 in your own country, you don't deserve a spot over anyone else.
(1) Stop calling him Burfoot. You're like the same age as him; call him Amby
(2) You're really obsessed with Amby
Please quit trying to drum up friction. I'm not obsessed with Burfoot in any way, shape or form. He doesn't even come up on my radar. I'm not even close to his age. When he was running marathons I was a skinny 70lb 12 year-old kid. By the time I attempted marathons, even at his best, he wouldn't have been competitive on my worst day in any event.
He has bad ideas that aren't good for our sport.
But Malmo you are extremely passionate about this, and you might be correct. But we will never know. There are so many of you who express yourselves with so much conviction over issues you cannot be certain of, that some of us cannot help but view your vantage point with some skepticism. But an exchange of ideas is healthy. Being close-minded often is not.
In 2008, at a Sheraton Hotel in Philadelphia, not far from the Penn Relays, there was a reunion of Villanova’s 1968 powerhouse track team that produced five Olympians. Patrick helped put it together. Payton Jordan, the coach of the U.S. track team in ’68, was present.
Jordan was not present at the committee meeting to throw out the results of the L.A. trials. Otherwise, it might have turned out differently. He was out of the country at the time.
During the presentation, much to Patrick’s surprise, he was retroactively named to the Olympic team. The emotion came pouring out of him. Those who were present, including O’Sullivan, had tears in their eyes.
“I’ll never forget Payton Jordan, at 91 years of age, telling me, ‘There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think about the injustice that was perpetrated on you,'” Patrick said. “It was pretty touching.”
Payton Jordan is a great man. This is the kind of crap that Ambi Burfoot's horrible idea would allow. NEVER AGAIN!
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What escapes Andy is that we have a larger problems than the trials and it is this:
> Since 1972 (52 years) the US men have only medaled 3 times
> Since 1984 (40 years) the US women have only medaled 3 times
I appreciated your post (I always respect the wisdom of elders who’ve been involved in the sport longer than I have), and I agreed with almost all of it. I only quibble with these data points. Saying we’ve only won X medals in Y years makes our medal count look worse than it is.
Given that the Olympics are only held once every four years, it’s more precise to say our runners have won X medals in Y Olympic marathons, not years.
Including 1972, US men have medaled 4 times in 12 Olympic marathons that we’ve entered (not counting the 1980 boycott). That means we’ve averaged 1 medal in every 3 Games. That’s pretty good! There aren’t many countries who can match that rate.
Including 1984, US women have medaled 3 times in 10 Olympic marathons, a success rate of 30%. That’s also pretty good and better than most.
Please quit trying to drum up friction. I'm not obsessed with Burfoot in any way, shape or form. He doesn't even come up on my radar. I'm not even close to his age. When he was running marathons I was a skinny 70lb 12 year-old kid. By the time I attempted marathons, even at his best, he wouldn't have been competitive on my worst day in any event.
He has bad ideas that aren't good for our sport.
But Malmo you are extremely passionate about this, and you might be correct. But we will never know. There are so many of you who express yourselves with so much conviction over issues you cannot be certain of, that some of us cannot help but view your vantage point with some skepticism. But an exchange of ideas is healthy. Being close-minded often is not.
There is nothing extreme about my position here.
Here's the answer, we already know what is correct. The fundamental essence of athletics -- not just track and field -- is that the results are determined on the playing field, by the athletes themselves. Any other way is unfair.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Japan has a smaller population than the US does but that population generally is much more interested in the marathon than the general US population is. One consequence of that is that more good Japanese runners run marathons than do good US runners and they generally do it at a much earlier age. Yes, they usually do outperform us in the event most of the time.
But their success at winning medals in Olympic marathons is pretty much the same as ours. You have to wonder why if they outperform our marathoners nearly all the time outside the Olympics they get pretty much the same Olympic results we do. I really don't know why that is but it could be that their selection system is not as good as ours is at getting their best people into the Olympics. That's only speculation. As I said earlier, I do like their system but I can't look at Olympic results and see any reason to think we should adopt theirs. In fact, since 1968 the US has outperformed every other non African country in terms of Olympic marathon medals won. We have four medals in the men's marathon, two non African countries have won three, and no other non African country has won more than two.
This post was edited 13 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
punctuation
But Malmo you are extremely passionate about this, and you might be correct. But we will never know. There are so many of you who express yourselves with so much conviction over issues you cannot be certain of, that some of us cannot help but view your vantage point with some skepticism. But an exchange of ideas is healthy. Being close-minded often is not.
There is nothing extreme about my position here.
Here's the answer, we already know what is correct. The fundamental essence of athletics -- not just track and field -- is that the results are determined on the playing field, by the athletes themselves. Any other way is unfair.
What are your thoughts about the wild card system, which I believe allows an athlete to be entered in the World Athletics Championships as either a defending champ or the previous year’s Diamond league champ? Someone please correct me if I have that not quite right.
